UK Politics Thread XI: Boris' Big Bombastic Brexit Bash

[Liriena]

Actually, from the results I saw a few moments ago, the opposite is true: what votes Labour lost seem to have largely gone to the Brexit Party. Which makes a tragic bit of sense: they aren't conservative voters, but they want Brexit and Labour hasn't made a convincing pitch on it.

Brexit has ruined public discourse. My opinions on the EU are mixed, I think it's flawed, but holy fuck, Brexit has just been toxic. There are tangibly more pressing issues in the UK, namely a decade of austerity, healthcare, the environment, etc etc, but people hear "Brexit" and just start losing their fucking minds.

It's such a dull thing to win an election over, it's even more depressing that working class families are voting against their own class interests, literally rubber stamping a government that will ruin them all because they "love their Brexit!" Even if, of course, they probably couldn't tell you what Brexit entails apart from leaving the EU.

It reminds me of how Macri's reelection campaign here broke 40% of the country's brains with the idea of "The Republic^TM", to the point that many who hiad actually been hit hard by his economic policies openly expressed that they would overlook their own misery in order to protect "The Republic^TM".

[Ifreann]

Oh no, it's ancap-itis. It can only be cured by a comprehensive public healthcare system that's free at the point of access. Try not to reach for your wallet, it'll only make it worse.

A comprehensive public healthcare system that is free at the point of access totally faile to find out wtf was wrong with my eye.

I just told you, and I didn't charge a penny

[Purgatio]

I would much ather the hospital charged and was able to deliver a quality service. Unfortunately, it did not charge and (probably for that reason) I waited for 4 hours after which a doctor told me to come back on Monday because he and his boss had no idea what's wrong with my eye.

But you chose not to go to another hospital. You chose to go to a NHS hospital.

Just because your insurance didn't cover it I have to pay taxes to cover your healthcare? It's almost like your talking points are full off shit.

At present though, his parents' property taxes and capital gains taxes are being used to fund the NHS, so he's only taking back what has been coercively taken from him by the State. Its not hypocritical. He's arguing for a world where the NHS doesn't exist and taxes aren't being used to fund it. But until that world exists, why can't he use the NHS?

[Major-Tom]

Most of my friends are working class lol. I don't actually like many other rich people.

You need a more refined social circle, I think. You're like one of those rich people who eat at McDonalds or Five Guys. A palate needs to be refined over time just like a social calendar.

Now I get it, your posts earlier make loads of sense now.

[Liriena]

Did they just say that Curtice said some of the swings in the early results have been less than the exit poll would have led him to expect?

Third act plot twist: Labour is saved when they shockingly steal all of the SNP's seats.

[The New California Republic]

A comprehensive public healthcare system that is free at the point of access totally faile to find out wtf was wrong with my eye.

I just told you, and I didn't charge a penny

IfreanNHS.

[Purgatio]

You need a more refined social circle, I think. You're like one of those rich people who eat at McDonalds or Five Guys. A palate needs to be refined over time just like a social calendar.

Now I get it, your posts earlier make loads of sense now.

Sorry, what?

[Major-Tom]

Brexit has ruined public discourse. My opinions on the EU are mixed, I think it's flawed, but holy fuck, Brexit has just been toxic. There are tangibly more pressing issues in the UK, namely a decade of austerity, healthcare, the environment, etc etc, but people hear "Brexit" and just start losing their fucking minds.

It's such a dull thing to win an election over, it's even more depressing that working class families are voting against their own class interests, literally rubber stamping a government that will ruin them all because they "love their Brexit!" Even if, of course, they probably couldn't tell you what Brexit entails apart from leaving the EU.

It reminds me of how Macri's reelection campaign here broke 40% of the country's brains with the idea of "The Republic^TM", to the point that many who hiad actually been hit hard by his economic policies openly expressed that they would overlook their own misery in order to protect "The Republic^TM".

I hadn’t heard of that, sounds like something I oughta look into.

[Fartsniffage]

But you chose not to go to another hospital. You chose to go to a NHS hospital.

Just because your insurance didn't cover it I have to pay taxes to cover your healthcare? It's almost like your talking points are full off shit.

I would expect my family pay far higher in taxes to the nhs than you do. Now, if there was an opt-out system, and so we generally contributed nothing to the NHS and I did that, it'd make a lot of sense; I'd expect to be charged if I'd somehow opted out. Since I haven't been given that chance however, why not use the terrible service I've been forced to be a part of.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U8Kum8OUTuk

[Liriena]

I think you misunderstood why I brought up the origins of private property under capitalism. It wasn't to use that as a way to hold contemporary property owners morally culpable enough to seize their surplus housing. It was to cast doubt on your point that seizing other people's property is inherently dictatorial.

Okay, but today it definitely is. Rich developed countries tend to have human rights provisions in their Constitutions to stop the State from randomly seizing people's shit like a bunch of uncontrolled despots with untrammelled power to override your financial and economic autonomy. With the US, its the Takings Clause. In Europe, its A1P1 of the ECHR. So on and so forth. Mass nationalizations without compensation tends to be what you hear about happening in random far flung Third World dictatorships like Zimbabwe.

Seizing without compensation would be illegal pretty much everywhere in the Western hemisphere, yes, and in some cases wouldn't be entirely fair.

[Ifreann]

Boris Johnson was the first PM since Thatcher to not vote for himself, instead choosing to canvass during polling day as well.

Imagine the absolute roflmaoism if he loses by 1 vote.

I could be wrong, but I think he did vote, just not in his own constituency.

But yes, it would be the funniest possible result if BoJo loses his seat by staying in London instead of going home to vote.

---

There's a degree of people being easier to fool if they're convinced they can't be fooled. If you think advertising doesn't work on you, it definitely does. If you think you'll spot the trick, the magician has already made you choose the nine of diamonds.

This is specially relevant when it comes to many outwardly cynical voters who end up either voting for the right or not voting at all.

If you think you can't be grifted, Steven Crowder already has your money.

---

Let your inner Dad Bod come forth.

I suppose it was inevitable. So long, my twinkish ambitions.

The twink timeline was also the not driven to drink timeline, and that is not the timeline we currently inhabit.

---

I suppose it was inevitable. So long, my twinkish ambitions.

Or just stay in shape and lay off the alcohol? Grindr isn't friendly to the overweight

Speaking of, I heard tell that the gay community of Britain was asked to change their Grindr location to Uxbridge so they could message BoJo's local gays and try to get them out to vote. Very modern electoral strategy that I would advise Liriena to look into when next Argentina goes to the polls.

[Major-Tom]

Now I get it, your posts earlier make loads of sense now.

Sorry, what?

For you, it sounds like being wealthy is more desirable than anything else. Not for any logical reason, just because the very idea of it sounds great, the thought of being “refined” and “classy” shields one from the insecurities of the real world.

[Purgatio]

Okay, but today it definitely is. Rich developed countries tend to have human rights provisions in their Constitutions to stop the State from randomly seizing people's shit like a bunch of uncontrolled despots with untrammelled power to override your financial and economic autonomy. With the US, its the Takings Clause. In Europe, its A1P1 of the ECHR. So on and so forth. Mass nationalizations without compensation tends to be what you hear about happening in random far flung Third World dictatorships like Zimbabwe.

Seizing without compensation would be illegal pretty much everywhere in the Western hemisphere, yes, and in some cases wouldn't be entirely fair.

Exactly, and so a Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer suggesting a policy in the wake of Grenfell that flies in the face of fundamental human rights, as defined in the ECHR, is alarming - yes?

[Greater vakolicci haven]

You need a more refined social circle, I think. You're like one of those rich people who eat at McDonalds or Five Guys. A palate needs to be refined over time just like a social calendar.

Now I get it, your posts earlier make loads of sense now.

Purgatio has alwas been a little more snobby than me. There's probably not much in it but I think he just about has me beat.

[Lower Nubia]

Oh no, it's ancap-itis. It can only be cured by a comprehensive public healthcare system that's free at the point of access. Try not to reach for your wallet, it'll only make it worse.

A comprehensive public healthcare system that is free at the point of access totally faile to find out wtf was wrong with my eye.

Do fuck off.

[Purgatio]

Speaking of, I heard tell that the gay community of Britain was asked to change their Grindr location to Uxbridge so they could message BoJo's local gays and try to get them out to vote. Very modern electoral strategy that I would advise Liriena to look into when next Argentina goes to the polls.

I can't speak for now since I'm not in the UK atm, but back in 2017 when I was, a lot of the Oxford students' Grindrs were telling people to go to the polls to vote Labour or whatever, using Grindr to get out the vote isn't a new strategy

[Liriena]

It reminds me of how Macri's reelection campaign here broke 40% of the country's brains with the idea of "The Republic^TM", to the point that many who hiad actually been hit hard by his economic policies openly expressed that they would overlook their own misery in order to protect "The Republic^TM".

I hadn’t heard of that, sounds like something I oughta look into.

My favourite bit was Macri holding a campaign rally where he celebrated that his supporters had been able to march without fear to defend "The Republic^TM". Considering that he was the president and he held the rally in a city held by his party, so it was kinda like a kid bragging that they won a game of tic-tac-toe against themselves.

[Nakena]

Now I get it, your posts earlier make loads of sense now.

Purgatio has alwas been a little more snobby than me. There's probably not much in it but I think he just about has me beat.

I am also snobby. But I do care about my subjects and underlings and like the saying goes, what goes around, comes around.

[Purgatio]

Sorry, what?

For you, it sounds like being wealthy is more desirable than anything else. Not for any logical reason, just because the very idea of it sounds great, the thought of being “refined” and “classy” shields one from the insecurities of the real world.

I don't know if I'd say its about the insecurities of the real world, but I do think background and socio-economic class and upbringing matter a lot in defining a person's values and outlook on life. There are a lot of people out there who are rather crass and garish in their values and conduct and it does rub me the wrong way. I don't know if that means I think "being wealthy is more desirable than anything else", but it does mean I think the way a person behaves and how he was raised matter a lot and are interconnected. Although I think that's just a fact too.

[Purgatio]

Now I get it, your posts earlier make loads of sense now.

Purgatio has alwas been a little more snobby than me. There's probably not much in it but I think he just about has me beat.

I prefer discerning or tasteful. "Snobby" is a little pejorative, unfairly so.

[Shrillland]

Conservatives hold Broxbourne.

[The Two Jerseys]

If you think you can't be grifted, Steven Crowder already has your money.

At least he'll give you a coffee mug.

[Shrillland]

Labour hold Wansbeck, putting them over 10 seats.

[Ifreann]

I just told you, and I didn't charge a penny

IfreanNHS.

Have I mentioned recently that "Ifreann" is the Irish word for "hell"?

[Liriena]

If you think you can't be grifted, Steven Crowder already has your money.

At least he'll give you a coffee mug.

Mugs are overrated. Real men drink their tea straight from the boiling kettle.