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MAGAThread XVII: All Things NOT Impeachment

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which would be your favored candidate for the 2020 Republican Party presidential nomination?

Donald Trump
47
27%
Rocky De La Fuente
5
3%
Joe Walsh
4
2%
Bill Weld
23
13%
Bob Ely
0
No votes
Zoltan Istvan
6
3%
None of the above/other
30
17%
David Hasselhoff
58
34%
 
Total votes : 173

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87269
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:46 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:and then you'll complain when even more farms go under

Those funds don't typically go to small farms, they go to corporate farms that are fully capable of supporting themselves. They just lobby harder for extra cash.


If that is true then why do we make such a big deal about them? They ought to be cut.

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:47 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Those funds don't typically go to small farms, they go to corporate farms that are fully capable of supporting themselves. They just lobby harder for extra cash.


If that is true then why do we make such a big deal about them? They ought to be cut.


Why do people who want money make a big deal out of receiving money?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:48 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Those funds don't typically go to small farms, they go to corporate farms that are fully capable of supporting themselves. They just lobby harder for extra cash.


If that is true then why do we make such a big deal about them? They ought to be cut.

Again, they lobby harder than most. When they have billions at their disposal, they can buy out small farms and pretend that cutting subsidies will hurt the common farmer. They're masters of advertising.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87269
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:50 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:
If that is true then why do we make such a big deal about them? They ought to be cut.

Again, they lobby harder than most. When they have billions at their disposal, they can buy out small farms and pretend that cutting subsidies will hurt the common farmer. They're masters of advertising.

But don't common farmers know they arent getting any money from them?

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:50 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps and work harder. What's the problem?


Reaganomics is a meme.


So is the idea that individuals owe some part of the national debt. Shame on you. :P

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:52 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Again, they lobby harder than most. When they have billions at their disposal, they can buy out small farms and pretend that cutting subsidies will hurt the common farmer. They're masters of advertising.

But don't common farmers know they arent getting any money from them?


Pretty sure the common farmer is somewhat financially aware, yes.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:52 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Again, they lobby harder than most. When they have billions at their disposal, they can buy out small farms and pretend that cutting subsidies will hurt the common farmer. They're masters of advertising.

But don't common farmers know they arent getting any money from them?

They get the leftovers. That's the insidious genius of it, the corporations leave some behind for small farmers to justify their own leeching.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87269
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:54 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But don't common farmers know they arent getting any money from them?

They get the leftovers. That's the insidious genius of it, the corporations leave some behind for small farmers to justify their own leeching.

Im not following. The corporate farms give some of the money to common farmers or the common farmer gets some of the money from the government?
Last edited by San Lumen on Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Austria-Bohemia-Hungary
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27926
Founded: Jun 28, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Austria-Bohemia-Hungary » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:54 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:But don't common farmers know they arent getting any money from them?

They get the leftovers. That's the insidious genius of it, the corporations leave some behind for small farmers to justify their own leeching.

Maybe it's high time to break up the Zaibatsus of America. *thinking*
The Holy Romangnan Empire of Ostmark
something something the sole legitimate Austria-Hungary larp'er on NS :3

MT/MagicT
The Armed Forces|Embassy Programme|The Imperial and National Anthem of the Holy Roman Empire|Characters|The Map

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Nov 30, 2019 6:59 pm

Austria-Bohemia-Hungary wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:They get the leftovers. That's the insidious genius of it, the corporations leave some behind for small farmers to justify their own leeching.

Maybe it's high time to break up the Zaibatsus of America. *thinking*


We're a long way from Zaibatsus, to be fair. But yeah, corporate politics are bad juju.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14727
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:03 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:At this point they will call any Democrat a socialist its their new favorite word. Yet there are many programs today that are socialism such as medicare, medicaid, social security and food stamps. I wonder how many in red states would support getting rid of those because they hate socialism so much

Yes, we should get rid of all those things.

Aside from the "Got Mine, Fuck You" vibes, eliminating social programs won't even make a dent in the debt like reducing say, military spending will.
Last edited by Gormwood on Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:08 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Gormwood wrote:The Republicans fantasize that the American public has been fnorded to the word "socialist" and immediately visualize Josef Stalin every time they hear it.

At this point they will call any Democrat a socialist its their new favorite word. Yet there are many programs today that are socialism such as medicare, medicaid, social security and food stamps. I wonder how many in red states would support getting rid of those because they hate socialism so much


None of these things are socialism...
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:10 pm

Telconi wrote:
San Lumen wrote:At this point they will call any Democrat a socialist its their new favorite word. Yet there are many programs today that are socialism such as medicare, medicaid, social security and food stamps. I wonder how many in red states would support getting rid of those because they hate socialism so much


None of these things are socialism...


Yes they are.

User avatar
Northern Davincia
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16960
Founded: Jun 10, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Northern Davincia » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:14 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:They get the leftovers. That's the insidious genius of it, the corporations leave some behind for small farmers to justify their own leeching.

Im not following. The corporate farms give some of the money to common farmers or the common farmer gets some of the money from the government?

The government gives most of the money to corporate farms and token amounts to small farms.
Gormwood wrote:
Northern Davincia wrote:Yes, we should get rid of all those things.

Aside from the "Got Mine, Fuck You" vibes, eliminating social programs won't even make a dent in the debt like reducing say, military spending will.

Sure it would. Military spending only occupies the majority of discretionary spending.
Last edited by Northern Davincia on Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hoppean Libertarian, Acolyte of von Mises, Protector of Our Sacred Liberties
Economic Left/Right: 9.75
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:19 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
None of these things are socialism...


Yes they are.


:roll:
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14727
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:22 pm

Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87269
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:23 pm

Northern Davincia wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Im not following. The corporate farms give some of the money to common farmers or the common farmer gets some of the money from the government?

The government gives most of the money to corporate farms and token amounts to small farms.
Gormwood wrote:Aside from the "Got Mine, Fuck You" vibes, eliminating social programs won't even make a dent in the debt like reducing say, military spending will.

Sure it would. Military spending only occupies the majority of discretionary spending.

Then farm subsides should be eliminated. It would save a ton of money. Cutting military spending by half wouldn’t be a bad idea either

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:30 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Yes they are.


:roll:


You honestly think that government programs to provide services or money to people aren't socialism?

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:45 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
:roll:


You honestly think that government programs to provide services or money to people aren't socialism?


Of course.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:46 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You honestly think that government programs to provide services or money to people aren't socialism?


Of course.


Love you sexy. :)

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:52 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Of course.


Love you sexy. :)


Don't you have better things to do with your time?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14727
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Love you sexy. :)


Don't you have better things to do with your time?

Obviously you don't. :^]
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:54 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Love you sexy. :)


Don't you have better things to do with your time?


I could ask you to tell me how social programs aren't socialism. But you'd bullshit and lie. So I'm gonna stick with me loving you. :)

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:57 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Don't you have better things to do with your time?


I could ask you to tell me how social programs aren't socialism. But you'd bullshit and lie. So I'm gonna stick with me loving you. :)


I will though. Social programs aren't socialism because they have nothing to do with the means of production or who controls them or how they're controlled.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42051
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Sat Nov 30, 2019 7:58 pm

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
I could ask you to tell me how social programs aren't socialism. But you'd bullshit and lie. So I'm gonna stick with me loving you. :)


I will though. Social programs aren't socialism because they have nothing to do with the means of production or who controls them or how they're controlled.


Well done.

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