The Iron Curtain: A Cold War RP (OOC, Reboot, Open)

[Totally Not OEP]

If I may suggest so, The Generalissimo: Chiang Kai-shek and the Struggle for Modern China by Jay Taylor, Harvard UP 2009 (pg 315-317)

Honestly I cant see the war being flat out lost by the Communists, I think a division like the Koreas is more likely.

Probably.

I think he could easily make the case that a Rump-PRC restricted to Manchuria and some of the Northeast while the rest (Sans I guess Tibet, which was independent until 1955 IOTL) is actually under the RoC. That PoD I already posted plus more intransigence from General Marshall in 1946 could prevent Chiang's campaign in Manchuria, which wrecked the NRA. I should also throw in that Stalin was in favor of a divided China in order to keep Mao in line, rather than one as a whole under him; he actually stopped an attempt by Mao to take advantage of the Japanese surrender in 1945 to seize many of the major cities within the former Japanese occupation zone. Chiang was also amendable to working with the Soviets, both before the Civil War and after the retreat to Taiwan.....

Proposed Map:

[Totally Not OEP]

Also, with regards to the Italy player, could I recommend they change their app from retaining Eritrea to keeping Libya? There actually was some talk of that IOTL, while the Allies always in general wanted to give Eritrea to Ethiopia or establish it as independent, given Italy had twice used it to menace Ethiopia. Plus, from a game play standpoint, Libya offers a lot better time as Italy given it has 41 billion barrels of oil and Eritrea, well, doesn't...

[Dentali]

Honestly I cant see the war being flat out lost by the Communists, I think a division like the Koreas is more likely.

Probably.

I think he could easily make the case that a Rump-PRC restricted to Manchuria and some of the Northeast while the rest (Sans I guess Tibet, which was independent until 1955 IOTL) is actually under the RoC. That PoD I already posted plus more intransigence from General Marshall in 1946 could prevent Chiang's campaign in Manchuria, which wrecked the NRA. I should also throw in that Stalin was in favor of a divided China in order to keep Mao in line, rather than one as a whole under him; he actually stopped an attempt by Mao to take advantage of the Japanese surrender in 1945 to seize many of the major cities within the former Japanese occupation zone. Chiang was also amendable to working with the Soviets, both before the Civil War and after the retreat to Taiwan.....

Proposed Map:

I think the commies get off a lot better than that, at best the Nationalists could get a stalemate.

[Totally Not OEP]

I think the commies get off a lot better than that, at best the Nationalists could get a stalemate.

(Image)

I've often read the Yangtze proposed as a dividing line as well, but I think if he incorporates the Japanese keeping the Communists suppressed until the NRA takes over and Chiang not wasting his best forces in Manchuria he could plausibly do a lot better than that; outside of Manchuria they did pretty good, overrunning the CPC's old base area of Yan'an for example. As it were, having Peking (Beijing), Manchuria (The Japanese REALLY developed it IOTL, it was a major source of POL, Steel and Coal for them and its industries were crucial for the early CCP), Shanghai and Nanjing, as well as the general Shandung Peninsula area, really gives the Communist an edge. The KMT also enjoyed significant support from China's Muslim minorities, which control much of the West as NRA-aligned Warlords.

Obviously though I'm biased to that map I just produced and want him to have a good starting power base.

[Union Princes]

Aw, a two China policy

[Asardia]

UPDATES

List of Recently Accepted Apps


North Korea/Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea: Nazeroth
Kingdom of Italy: Arvenia
Kingdom of Spain: Totally Not OEP
South Vietnam/People's Federation of Indochina: Nebelhalbinsel
West Germany/Federal Republic of Germany: New Finnish Republic

List of Pending Apps

China by United Elemental Nations
An Ethiopian rebel faction by Bruke
Undivided India: The Felan Federation

Bruke hasn't posted since the original interest comment, and we're still in the midst of figuring out China. A non partitioned India is also being discussed

Changes in Co OPs

Both The Felan Federation and Dentali have been appointed Co Ops of this thread.

Updated Maps

Most important changes were the split of Indochina into at least South Vietnam. I'm not sure about the rest of French Indochina, so I had it changed to a separate color.

Political Alliance Map
World Map

IC and Events

I believe we have enough nations to start the IC sometime this week, however I do want to see about the situations with China and India beforehand. The Event System is still in place, and will be used to spice things up. They will include maybe a random protest in the UK, skirmishes in Indochina etc. Whenever a significant world event transpires (such as a revolution), then an even will pop up too. The Co OPs can also issue events if they want

[Confederate American SU]

For South Africa, Swaziland and Lesotho should be independent. The former should be a Portuguese protectorate.

[Totally Not OEP]

I would caution against a non-partitioned India; the seeds for that were sown before 1945. By 1942, the Cripps Mission underlined the extreme discord between the Muslim League and the INC:

Congress moved towards the Quit India movement whereby it refused to cooperate in the war effort; in response, the British imprisoned practically the entire Congress leadership for the duration of the war. Jinnah and the Muslims, to whom Cripps had offered the right to opt out of a future Union, supported the war effort and gained in status in British eyes.[1][2] He was surprised to see that the right to opt out of a Future Union was undertaken.[3]

The Muslim League rejected the Cripps proposal. Jinnah argued that the proposals were merely a draft declaration and did not meet the demand for Pakistan sufficiently and preferred a scheme of United India. At a press conference on April he argued that there was no clear concession for Pakistan in the proposals and he further expressed concern that the Muslim right to self-determination had been ignored. He also expressed criticism for the exclusion of the Muslim League from the later stage of negotiations.[11][12][13]

[Hastiaka]

Reserve the Philippines please.

[Union Princes]

Gosh darn. I guess no China

Maybe I can be Greece and revive the Megali Idea.

[Nebelhalbinsel]

I wonder how much my nation can lean to the left side of the left-right political spectrum before being consider as a pro-socialist and remove by some western powers ? I don't want my nation to end up like Sukarno's Indonesia, being takeover by a CIA backed military coup with all leftist elements exterminated from society and government after.

[Totally Not OEP]

Gosh darn. I guess no China

Maybe I can be Greece and revive the Megali Idea.

Australia, pretty much all of the Warsaw Pact, Portugal, and the like are still open. Each presents interesting options.

[Union Princes]

Nah, I'm gonna wait to see what becomes of the China app

[Confederate American SU]

Probably.

I think he could easily make the case that a Rump-PRC restricted to Manchuria and some of the Northeast while the rest (Sans I guess Tibet, which was independent until 1955 IOTL) is actually under the RoC. That PoD I already posted plus more intransigence from General Marshall in 1946 could prevent Chiang's campaign in Manchuria, which wrecked the NRA. I should also throw in that Stalin was in favor of a divided China in order to keep Mao in line, rather than one as a whole under him; he actually stopped an attempt by Mao to take advantage of the Japanese surrender in 1945 to seize many of the major cities within the former Japanese occupation zone. Chiang was also amendable to working with the Soviets, both before the Civil War and after the retreat to Taiwan.....

Proposed Map:
(Image)

I think the commies get off a lot better than that, at best the Nationalists could get a stalemate.

I think you should remove West China from Communist control. Chinese Muslims tended to be pro-KMT. In fact, some of the last holdouts of the civil war were in the Xinjiang area.

[Dentali]

I think the commies get off a lot better than that, at best the Nationalists could get a stalemate.

I think you should remove West China from Communist control. Chinese Muslims tended to be pro-KMT. In fact, some of the last holdouts of the civil war were in the Xinjiang area.

[Greater Seludong]

Country Name: Federal Republic of Filipinas
Head of State/Government: Manuel A. Roxas
Type of Government: Federal presidential constitutional republic
Capital: Manila
Map/location (an actual map or description is fine here)

Population: 19,234,182
Faction: Non-aligned but towards NATO
History: OTL History but 1935 Consitutional Convention mandates the Philippines to be federal.

[Chinese Kaohsiung]

Country Name: Republic of Malaysia
Head of State/Government: President Yusof bin Ishak Prime Minsiter Lee Kuan Yew
Type of Government:Unitary dominant-party parliamentary constitutional republic
Capital City: Singapore:
Map/location Present day Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei
Population 8.5 million people:
Faction Non aligned but pro NATO:
History: After World War Two, The Malayan Union, established in 1946, and consisting of all the British possessions in the Malay Peninsula, was quickly dissolved under local pressure and replaced on 1 February 1948 by the Federation of Malaya, which restored the autonomy of the rulers of the Malay states under British protection.During this time, mostly rebels under the leadership of the Malayan Communist Party launched guerrilla operations designed to force the British out of Malaya.On 31 August 1957, Malaysia became an independent nation after coming into agreement with the MCP. The MCP would disband and Malaysia would become independent.

[Agarntrop]

UPDATES

List of Recently Accepted Apps


North Korea/Democratic Peoples Republic of Korea: Nazeroth
Kingdom of Italy: Arvenia
Kingdom of Spain: Totally Not OEP
South Vietnam/People's Federation of Indochina: Nebelhalbinsel
West Germany/Federal Republic of Germany: New Finnish Republic

List of Pending Apps

China by United Elemental Nations
An Ethiopian rebel faction by Bruke
Undivided India: The Felan Federation

Bruke hasn't posted since the original interest comment, and we're still in the midst of figuring out China. A non partitioned India is also being discussed

Changes in Co OPs

Both The Felan Federation and Dentali have been appointed Co Ops of this thread.

Updated Maps

Most important changes were the split of Indochina into at least South Vietnam. I'm not sure about the rest of French Indochina, so I had it changed to a separate color.

Political Alliance Map
World Map

IC and Events

I believe we have enough nations to start the IC sometime this week, however I do want to see about the situations with China and India beforehand. The Event System is still in place, and will be used to spice things up. They will include maybe a random protest in the UK, skirmishes in Indochina etc. Whenever a significant world event transpires (such as a revolution), then an even will pop up too. The Co OPs can also issue events if they want

I think Ethiopia could be in red on the world map considering it is occupied by the UK. Also, as it is occupied by a NATO state rather than a NATO state itself I think the 'Nato-aligned' label fits it better on the political alliance map.

[The Hoosier Alliance]

Hello! This is very interesting, to say the least. I'm definitely going to get an app up, but am still deciding on what I would want to RP as. I'm thinking either El Salvador or Guatemala, with a civil war raging between the fascistic military government vs communist rebels.

For now, I'll go with Guatemala, but it's subject to change. The civil war happened IRL, but I'll just move it to happening in 1950 rather than 1954 and change a few things around.

Country Name: Guatemala
Head of State/Government: President Carlos Castillo Armas
Type of Government: Military junta
Capital: Guatemala City
Map/location: Rebel territory in red, the rest is government controlled.

Population: 3,146,073
Faction: Not officially in any faction, the military government of Guatemala is backed by the United States due to their conflict with the communist rebels plaguing the country.
History: The current government of Guatemala is headed by President Carlos Castillo Armas, a member of the Guatemalan Nationalist Party. President Armas gained power after the previously elected government began to show communist sympathies and worried the United States. Not wanting a Central American nation to fall to communists, and being pressured by the ever powerful Central American United Fruit Company, the U.S government ordered the CIA to arm, train, and fund Colonel Carlos Armas and his small army of right wing soldiers. A coup d'état was executed and resulted in the overthrow the leftist government, and replacing it with a reactionary right wing military dictatorship. The government began to roll back many of the leftist reforms, including banning communism, taking land from peasants and returning it to the United Fruit Company (a corporation that has had a large amount of influence in Guatemalan politics), enforcing Catholicism as the national religion, and banning elections. A series of attacks, executions, and harassment of communists, socialists, their sympathizers, and native Mayans sparked an uprising in the northern portion of the country. Currently, the rebels control tiny portions of the country, and the military scrambles to prevent more land falling to them, but, while they would never admit this, many in military high command fear a large scale civil war will break out once the communists inevitably secure much of the sympathetic north and east. A request has been made to the United States of America, asking for aid in the form of money, arms, vehicles, and munitions.

[New Finnish Republic]

Here's the faction application (finally)

Name of faction: The Kaiserreich Movement
Leader: Prince Louis Ferdinand
Influence: Sizeable portions of the new German government as well as a growing civilian level of support
Base of operations: Hechingen, Baden-Württemberg
Goals: Deposing of the current government and replacing it with a constitutional monarchy, a revamping of the German economy, return of the Saar lands from France, and the reunification of Western and Eastern Germany
History: After the first World War, the German throne was abdicated, leaving behind the crippled Weimar Republic as the nation's first democracy. Due to debilitating terms imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles, the Weimar Republic quickly fell into shambles as Adolf Hitler and his Nazi regime took control over the nation. While for a short time returning Germany to its former place as a military powerhouse in Europe, the end of the Second World War resulted in yet another forced governmental change in Germany, with a democracy being placed in the West and a Communist puppet-state being placed in the East.

For many Germans, many saw the actions of the new-fledged democratic government as nowhere near satisfactory, given that much of the nation was still in rubbles, their industrial lands had been taken away, and a constant state of military occupation was still placed into effect. While the West German government tried to correct these issues, many saw the government as being much too weak to bring them out of the current situation they were in.

Thus, many Germans began to dream of a return to the great German nation that had dominated Europe only a generation prior. Former bitter sentiments about the German Empire, many of which were purposefully implanted by the Nazi government, began to change into nostalgic memories. This sentiment carried heavily in many of what remained of the Germans who still held Prussian blood in their veins, who wished for the return of the Kaiser back to the throne of a united Germany.

The current heir to the now abdicated throne, Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, was not unaware of these sentiments. Having been aligned against Hitler during the war years, Prince Ferdinand and his supporters began to gather near the heir's estate in Hechingen. While the Prince was not keen on going against the wishes of the people should they choose to remain with the current government, he was more than willing to accept the role as the crippled nation's leader should there be enough of a demand from the German people.

It did not take long for the Prince's supporters to grow in both numbers and in influence. Several prominent members of the West German government became discreet supporters of the Prince, these men having little faith in the newly appointed Chancellor Konrad Adenauer. Due to the constant threat of intervention from the occupying Allied nations should their support of the Prince be known, no official actions have been set in place. However as their numbers continue to grow, those supporting the Prince have began to secretly set into place ways in which the Kaiser could return to reclaim the throne.

[Union Princes]

When will the spot for China be open?

[The Hoosier Alliance]

I think my main goal will be reforming the United Provinces of Central America...

[Asardia]

I wonder how much my nation can lean to the left side of the left-right political spectrum before being consider as a pro-socialist and remove by some western powers ? I don't want my nation to end up like Sukarno's Indonesia, being takeover by a CIA backed military coup with all leftist elements exterminated from society and government after.

Coups cannot be done without the explicit consent of the target nation. This will prevent godmodding. Historical coups will still be acceptable. However, the US would only back a South Vietnam if it's capitalist and leans towards the West strongly. So at this point splitting into South and North Vietnam wouldn't make much sense if they're basically the same politically.

I would caution against a non-partitioned India; the seeds for that were sown before 1945. By 1942, the Cripps Mission underlined the extreme discord between the Muslim League and the INC:

Congress moved towards the Quit India movement whereby it refused to cooperate in the war effort; in response, the British imprisoned practically the entire Congress leadership for the duration of the war. Jinnah and the Muslims, to whom Cripps had offered the right to opt out of a future Union, supported the war effort and gained in status in British eyes.[1][2] He was surprised to see that the right to opt out of a Future Union was undertaken.[3]

The Muslim League rejected the Cripps proposal. Jinnah argued that the proposals were merely a draft declaration and did not meet the demand for Pakistan sufficiently and preferred a scheme of United India. At a press conference on April he argued that there was no clear concession for Pakistan in the proposals and he further expressed concern that the Muslim right to self-determination had been ignored. He also expressed criticism for the exclusion of the Muslim League from the later stage of negotiations.[11][12][13]

I will keep this in mind. I too have reservations on an undivided India. The violence that followed in the partition at the very least makes me believe that a division would be inevitable.

Reserve the Philippines please.

Country Name: Federal Republic of Filipinas
Head of State/Government: Manuel A. Roxas
Type of Government: Federal presidential constitutional republic
Capital: Manila
Map/location (an actual map or description is fine here)

(Image)

Population: 19,234,182
Faction: Non-aligned but towards NATO
History: OTL History but 1935 Consitutional Convention mandates the Philippines to be federal.

Hmmm two people want the same nation. Seludong was the Phillipines in the previous RP, and Rule 8 would apply here, so unless Seludong agrees, they get the app

Country Name: Republic of Malaysia
Head of State/Government: President Yusof bin Ishak Prime Minsiter Lee Kuan Yew
Type of Government:Unitary dominant-party parliamentary constitutional republic
Capital City: Singapore:
Map/location Present day Malaysia, Singapore, Brunei
Population 8.5 million people:
Faction Non aligned but pro NATO:
History: After World War Two, The Malayan Union, established in 1946, and consisting of all the British possessions in the Malay Peninsula, was quickly dissolved under local pressure and replaced on 1 February 1948 by the Federation of Malaya, which restored the autonomy of the rulers of the Malay states under British protection.During this time, mostly rebels under the leadership of the Malayan Communist Party launched guerrilla operations designed to force the British out of Malaya.On 31 August 1957, Malaysia became an independent nation after coming into agreement with the MCP. The MCP would disband and Malaysia would become independent.

A few questions about this. The leaders both seem to historically be the heads of Singapore, and the RP starts in 1950, so the Federation of Malaya is still around, which wouldn't include Singapore. At this time, Singapore would still be a British colony and didn't join until the early 60s, which didn't last long. Because of this, I say we need Hypron's thoughts on releasing Singapore

Hello! This is very interesting, to say the least. I'm definitely going to get an app up, but am still deciding on what I would want to RP as. I'm thinking either El Salvador or Guatemala, with a civil war raging between the fascistic military government vs communist rebels.

For now, I'll go with Guatemala, but it's subject to change. The civil war happened IRL, but I'll just move it to happening in 1950 rather than 1954 and change a few things around.

Country Name: Guatemala
Head of State/Government: President Carlos Castillo Armas
Type of Government: Military junta
Capital: Guatemala City
Map/location: Rebel territory in red, the rest is government controlled.

(Image)

Population: 3,146,073
Faction: Not officially in any faction, the military government of Guatemala is backed by the United States due to their conflict with the communist rebels plaguing the country.
History: The current government of Guatemala is headed by President Carlos Castillo Armas, a member of the Guatemalan Nationalist Party. President Armas gained power after the previously elected government began to show communist sympathies and worried the United States. Not wanting a Central American nation to fall to communists, and being pressured by the ever powerful Central American United Fruit Company, the U.S government ordered the CIA to arm, train, and fund Colonel Carlos Armas and his small army of right wing soldiers. A coup d'état was executed and resulted in the overthrow the leftist government, and replacing it with a reactionary right wing military dictatorship. The government began to roll back many of the leftist reforms, including banning communism, taking land from peasants and returning it to the United Fruit Company (a corporation that has had a large amount of influence in Guatemalan politics), enforcing Catholicism as the national religion, and banning elections. A series of attacks, executions, and harassment of communists, socialists, their sympathizers, and native Mayans sparked an uprising in the northern portion of the country. Currently, the rebels control tiny portions of the country, and the military scrambles to prevent more land falling to them, but, while they would never admit this, many in military high command fear a large scale civil war will break out once the communists inevitably secure much of the sympathetic north and east. A request has been made to the United States of America, asking for aid in the form of money, arms, vehicles, and munitions.

Here's the faction application (finally)

Name of faction: The Kaiserreich Movement
Leader: Prince Louis Ferdinand
Influence: Sizeable portions of the new German government as well as a growing civilian level of support
Base of operations: Hechingen, Baden-Württemberg
Goals: Deposing of the current government and replacing it with a constitutional monarchy, a revamping of the German economy, return of the Saar lands from France, and the reunification of Western and Eastern Germany
History: After the first World War, the German throne was abdicated, leaving behind the crippled Weimar Republic as the nation's first democracy. Due to debilitating terms imposed on Germany by the Treaty of Versailles, the Weimar Republic quickly fell into shambles as Adolf Hitler and his Nazi regime took control over the nation. While for a short time returning Germany to its former place as a military powerhouse in Europe, the end of the Second World War resulted in yet another forced governmental change in Germany, with a democracy being placed in the West and a Communist puppet-state being placed in the East.

For many Germans, many saw the actions of the new-fledged democratic government as nowhere near satisfactory, given that much of the nation was still in rubbles, their industrial lands had been taken away, and a constant state of military occupation was still placed into effect. While the West German government tried to correct these issues, many saw the government as being much too weak to bring them out of the current situation they were in.

Thus, many Germans began to dream of a return to the great German nation that had dominated Europe only a generation prior. Former bitter sentiments about the German Empire, many of which were purposefully implanted by the Nazi government, began to change into nostalgic memories. This sentiment carried heavily in many of what remained of the Germans who still held Prussian blood in their veins, who wished for the return of the Kaiser back to the throne of a united Germany.

The current heir to the now abdicated throne, Prince Louis Ferdinand of Prussia, was not unaware of these sentiments. Having been aligned against Hitler during the war years, Prince Ferdinand and his supporters began to gather near the heir's estate in Hechingen. While the Prince was not keen on going against the wishes of the people should they choose to remain with the current government, he was more than willing to accept the role as the crippled nation's leader should there be enough of a demand from the German people.

It did not take long for the Prince's supporters to grow in both numbers and in influence. Several prominent members of the West German government became discreet supporters of the Prince, these men having little faith in the newly appointed Chancellor Konrad Adenauer. Due to the constant threat of intervention from the occupying Allied nations should their support of the Prince be known, no official actions have been set in place. However as their numbers continue to grow, those supporting the Prince have began to secretly set into place ways in which the Kaiser could return to reclaim the throne.

Accepted

---

I will make the requested adjustments to Ethiopa

For South Africa, Swaziland and Lesotho should be independent. The former should be a Portuguese protectorate.

As I looked for maps for references, it seemed both those nations were under British control.

When will the spot for China be open?

I'll give it about another day or so, but if United Elemental Nations doesn't respond soon then it'll be open

[Confederate American SU]

For South Africa, Swaziland and Lesotho should be independent. The former should be a Portuguese protectorate.

As I looked for maps for references, it seemed both those nations were under British control.

Yes, but an independent South Africa would complicate the situation. Lesotho is surrounded by South Africa, and Swaziland has no connection to Britain, land or sea.

[Chinese Kaohsiung]

Well, the last time I used to be the Malayan Federation Hypron' was cool with it since I allowed him to continue to base his military and I have no desire to change the arrangement.
The reason why I made the two leaders historically from Singapore is that I know their policies better than the Malaysian version as I live in said country.