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[DEFEATED] Repeal SC#52 "Condemn The Black Hawks"

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Tinhampton
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Posts: 5193
Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Oct 18, 2019 8:39 am

Blood Wine wrote:Still think this is gonna pass?

Yes: I do not file any proposal for the attention of WA Delegates if I do not have at least some confidence that it can be a successful resolution.

If there are no more criticisms/comments beyond "This looks neat" or "No support", then this will be filed around 1700 BST on Saint Ursula's Day.
Last edited by Tinhampton on Fri Oct 18, 2019 9:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
OOC: 44yo woman in East London * People love my dry sense of humour! * I'm a lobbyist and proud of it!

IC: The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP) * Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the WA * Winners, Cup of Harmony 73
Glowrius wrote:We will microwave ur entire nation *NUKES*
You can thank me for: SC c. 250, SC c. 251, SC c. 267, the Confederacy of Warzone Asia (x2), Free Warzone Africa

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Oct 18, 2019 12:06 pm

I've previously detailed my reasons for non-support, but the big one in general is that very few people would be able to write a replacement (given the existing standard that TBH deserves two), and fewer still would be allowed to (given the standards against self-C&Cs).
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Fri Oct 18, 2019 2:37 pm

Lord Dominator wrote:I've previously detailed my reasons for non-support, but the big one in general is that very few people would be able to write a replacement (given the existing standard that TBH deserves two), and fewer still would be allowed to (given the standards against self-C&Cs).


Tinhampton wrote:Do The Black Hawks deserve two Condemnations? I can't possibly say - although I have always supported SC#217 - but I can't think of very many people who deserve a poorly-written badge.

Is SC#52 a symbolic/at-large Condemnation of raiding? Only inasmuch as it was so terribly phrased that the terms it uses to describe TBH in its first three clauses could be applied to any other invasion group, see CONCERNED.
OOC: 44yo woman in East London * People love my dry sense of humour! * I'm a lobbyist and proud of it!

IC: The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP) * Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the WA * Winners, Cup of Harmony 73
Glowrius wrote:We will microwave ur entire nation *NUKES*
You can thank me for: SC c. 250, SC c. 251, SC c. 267, the Confederacy of Warzone Asia (x2), Free Warzone Africa

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
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Postby Lord Dominator » Fri Oct 18, 2019 4:23 pm

Tinhampton wrote:
Lord Dominator wrote:I've previously detailed my reasons for non-support, but the big one in general is that very few people would be able to write a replacement (given the existing standard that TBH deserves two), and fewer still would be allowed to (given the standards against self-C&Cs).


Tinhampton wrote:Do The Black Hawks deserve two Condemnations? I can't possibly say - although I have always supported SC#217 - but I can't think of very many people who deserve a poorly-written badge.

Is SC#52 a symbolic/at-large Condemnation of raiding? Only inasmuch as it was so terribly phrased that the terms it uses to describe TBH in its first three clauses could be applied to any other invasion group, see CONCERNED.

The second bit is irrelevant to my point, and the first misses my point.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Sun Oct 20, 2019 6:06 am

Lord Dominator wrote:The second bit is irrelevant to my point

I'll throw my hands up and admit that such was the case!

Lord Dominator wrote:the first misses my point

Your point being that The Black Hawks should have two Condemnations at the present date, unless otherwise stated? My concern is about the quality of the resolutions passed, not their quantity, and it is evident that SC#52 - were it to be voted on in 2019, rather than in 2011 - would be deemed of such a poor standard by many voters that it would likely be defeated. Anything of such low quality should have long been repealed, had it not been for the historical value that many have perceived (see FAQ#1 and FAQ#3).
Your point being that SC#52 should be replaced, if needs must? I would not generally be opposed to a replacement unless the writing was absolutely terrible. I remain convinced, however, that simply awarding Condemnations for tag raids that happened almost a decade ago (as opposed to bona fide regional invasions, which deserve to be called out) further devalues the common "shock value" of the badge.
OOC: 44yo woman in East London * People love my dry sense of humour! * I'm a lobbyist and proud of it!

IC: The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP) * Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the WA * Winners, Cup of Harmony 73
Glowrius wrote:We will microwave ur entire nation *NUKES*
You can thank me for: SC c. 250, SC c. 251, SC c. 267, the Confederacy of Warzone Asia (x2), Free Warzone Africa

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
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Postby Lord Dominator » Sun Oct 20, 2019 12:34 pm

That would be about right yes - community agreement seems to have been that TBH deserves 2 & I don't think anyone is capable of writing the replacement, at least not without tripping over a self-condemnation line.

Obviously you disagree or don't care about the latter point, so whetevs.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Tue Oct 22, 2019 11:52 am

Any further complaints, quibbles or congratulations ought to be made in the next 21 hours - i.e. before this is submitted at 1700 BST tomorrow.
OOC: 44yo woman in East London * People love my dry sense of humour! * I'm a lobbyist and proud of it!

IC: The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP) * Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the WA * Winners, Cup of Harmony 73
Glowrius wrote:We will microwave ur entire nation *NUKES*
You can thank me for: SC c. 250, SC c. 251, SC c. 267, the Confederacy of Warzone Asia (x2), Free Warzone Africa

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Refuge Isle
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Founded: Dec 14, 2018
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Refuge Isle » Tue Oct 22, 2019 12:38 pm

I don't think it'll make it through, but I respect your right to pose the question. So I'll approve this if I see it.

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Wabbitslayah
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Founded: Apr 19, 2009
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Wabbitslayah » Tue Oct 22, 2019 1:29 pm

What's with people always trying to remove these things? Against.
Former Delegate of the Rejected Realms

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Concrete Slab
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Founded: Jan 25, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Concrete Slab » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:52 am

Submitted
Concrete Slab
Author of GAR#471 and SCR#271
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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:15 am

Concrete Slab wrote:Submitted

Or, as I like to put it, Proposal-A-Go-Go.
Wabbitslayah wrote:What's with people always trying to remove these things? Against.

One attempted repeal successfully reaching the voting floor in my 3¼ years on NationStates (plus about five other forum drafts of variable quality in that time frame) is not "always."
OOC: 44yo woman in East London * People love my dry sense of humour! * I'm a lobbyist and proud of it!

IC: The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP) * Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the WA * Winners, Cup of Harmony 73
Glowrius wrote:We will microwave ur entire nation *NUKES*
You can thank me for: SC c. 250, SC c. 251, SC c. 267, the Confederacy of Warzone Asia (x2), Free Warzone Africa

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Lord Dominator
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Founded: Dec 22, 2016
Corporate Police State

Postby Lord Dominator » Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:34 am

Tinhampton wrote:
Concrete Slab wrote:Submitted

Or, as I like to put it, Proposal-A-Go-Go.
Wabbitslayah wrote:What's with people always trying to remove these things? Against.

One attempted repeal successfully reaching the voting floor in my 3¼ years on NationStates (plus about five other forum drafts of variable quality in that time frame) is not "always."

Nah, this just has something that attracts people to repealing it every so often (this being the third attempt likely to make vote, not counting the numerous ones that haven't).

Edit: By which I mean it looks like there has been at least 10 repeal attempts on the first in the just under 8 years since passage.
Last edited by Lord Dominator on Wed Oct 23, 2019 10:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
Dee Vytherov-Skollvaldr | Forest | TBH Lieutenant and Council Member | WA Vizier | Ambassador to the WA

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Wayneactia
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Corporate Bordello

Postby Wayneactia » Wed Oct 23, 2019 9:16 pm

The level of failure about to be experienced here, should this get to vote, is going to numb the mind.

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:25 am

If we consider two purported "facts:"

1) SC#52 is "irrelevant" to TBH either because it applied to all raiding at the time or contains "inaccuracies"

but

2) TBH of the pre-2011 era still deserves a separate condemnation, given SC#217 only covers post-2011

...then surely, we can conclude that this situation allows for a unique "replace then repeal" process where duplication can be avoided as per the nature of 1). It would be new. Stunning. Revolutionary. Groundbreaking. Unlikely to be seen again. The real Slim Shady. It's what a pro gamer would do.

...and then we sink the repeal step, and keep all 3. Mwahahaha!
Last edited by Ever-Wandering Souls on Fri Oct 25, 2019 4:26 am, edited 1 time in total.
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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Concrete Slab
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Founded: Jan 25, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Concrete Slab » Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:37 pm

I don't really understand why everyone is against this. I am in total agreement that the Black Hawks deserve two condemnations. However, SC #52 is extremely generalized, badly written, and is centered around a joke self-commendation. It definitely deserves a repeal.
Last edited by Concrete Slab on Sat Oct 26, 2019 1:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Concrete Slab
Author of GAR#471 and SCR#271
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Concrete Slab
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Founded: Jan 25, 2018
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Postby Concrete Slab » Sat Oct 26, 2019 3:50 pm

The proposal has reached quorum.
Concrete Slab
Author of GAR#471 and SCR#271
Proud member of The South Pacific

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Tinhampton
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Founded: Oct 05, 2016
Anarchy

Postby Tinhampton » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:00 pm

This one is AT VOTE between major update today (i.e. a few seconds ago) and major update on Thursday 31st October - despite what looked like an unapproval telegram campaign having claimed about half a dozen scalps in the past twelve hours. Sorry for the Blexit uncertainty :P

AS OF 0459 BST ON SUNDAY: Approvals: 66 out of 65 needed (German Federal Reich, Kuriko, Almerdonia, Refuge Isle, Austronta, Amblibahdesh, Armaidium, Integralists Of Brazil, I chose the first option, Libernato, Kreto, Jimmy bob909, Ransium, Western The Fox, SFR Philippines, Berlania, Ywisha, The Emerald Union, Volykos, Scardinius, United Massachusetts, Takaar, The North Crystal, Sorentia, The United North Nethe, The Tomerlands, South Krimelski, Candensia, Wesleyisbestnationhere, Hoshido and Nohr, Welon Isle, Holleynaga, The Federal Government of Iowa, Gregouria, Vrolondia, Zeatiserland, United Lammunist Republic, Greater Moskva, Zombiedolphins, Greica, Wagoll, Ossulus, Jambudveep, Malvator, Foreignaid, Chargren, Yeetbecistaniana, FNAFia, Philip of Burgundy, Karteria, The Empire of Balestria, United Dependencies, Suvmia, Toopaka, Rockiberg, Nazbeth, Johanneslanden, Hemuraile, Bietzopolis, Greater Serbian Provinces, Eheleana, Carstantinopipal, Balvics, West Intermarium, United Island States of Southeast Asia, Aumeltopia)
OOC: 44yo woman in East London * People love my dry sense of humour! * I'm a lobbyist and proud of it!

IC: The Self-Administrative City of TINHAMPTON (pop. 319,372): Saffron Howard, Mayor (UCP) * Alexander Smith, Delegate-Ambassador to the WA * Winners, Cup of Harmony 73
Glowrius wrote:We will microwave ur entire nation *NUKES*
You can thank me for: SC c. 250, SC c. 251, SC c. 267, the Confederacy of Warzone Asia (x2), Free Warzone Africa

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Cela
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Posts: 17
Founded: Jan 22, 2019
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Cela » Sat Oct 26, 2019 9:32 pm

The Celan people have voted to go against this resolution. Well at least I think they did. When the news reported the contents of the resolution, it triggered a widespread laughing epidemic. 3 people died. Their blood is on your hands.

- Ambassador Remming
Don't Mourn, organize!

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Khomney
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Founded: Apr 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Khomney » Sun Oct 27, 2019 12:01 am

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Ever-Wandering Souls
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Founded: Jan 01, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ever-Wandering Souls » Sun Oct 27, 2019 9:27 am

Image
Proud Raider; General of The Black Hawks
TG me anytime; I'm always happy to talk about anything!

The Alicorns (Equestria) wrote:Let them stay, no need to badmouth them...From our view a bunch of nations just came in, seized the delegate position, and changed a few superficial things...we play NationStates differently...there's really no reason for us to be butthurt.
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8944227
http://www.nationstates.net/page=rmb/postid=8951258

Misley wrote:
Hobbesistan wrote:Don't think I understand the question.
The color or what?..

Jesus, Hobbes, it's 2015. You can't just call someone "the color".

Reploid Productions wrote:Raiders are endlessly creative

How Do I Telegram API?

Omnis delenda est.

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Marxist Germany
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Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Marxist Germany » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:28 am

Ever-Wandering Souls wrote:(Image)

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Author of GA#461, GA#470, GA#477, GA#481, and SC#295

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De-Voss
Civilian
 
Posts: 1
Founded: May 08, 2019
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby De-Voss » Sun Oct 27, 2019 10:25 pm

Why even bother with this proposal? The Black Hawks are proud of their raider status. We've condemned them already. Further debate and discussion of their condemnation will only serve to fluff up their egos, and as such surely the best course of action is to simply ignore them.

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United Calanworie
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 20
Founded: Dec 12, 2018
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby United Calanworie » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:35 pm

I'm confused as to what is supposed to be achieved here, there was never any way that this would pass.

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Borovan entered the region as he
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Founded: Dec 18, 2017
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Borovan entered the region as he » Sun Oct 27, 2019 11:50 pm

United Calanworie wrote:I'm confused as to what is supposed to be achieved here, there was never any way that this would pass.

Yeah I'm reading both the target resolution and the repeal, while having two resolutions is one two many and the older one looks off, the old one conveys the attitudes and sentiments of towards tbh or raiding and its status.

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Wayneactia
Diplomat
 
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Founded: Aug 01, 2014
Corporate Bordello

Postby Wayneactia » Mon Oct 28, 2019 12:34 am

Wow it failed! Who could have possibly seen this one coming?

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