When did you change your mind? (and why?)

[Gordano and Lysandus]

I've really no idea if a thread has already been made on this basis, and if so, I apologise vehemently. I also apologise if this isn't the right forum for it, it's been a long time since I was involved with NS way back and have only recently returned, so I'm a bit rusty.

Obviously this is meant to concern political and philosophical opinions, but I'm really curious to see and hear from other people whose opinions have changed on things, what has changed, and why.

For example, with regards to my own personal views, anyone who knew me four-five years ago would be well aware that I used to be far more left wing. Card carrying supporter of the Labour Party, somewhat pacifistic, drummed up with the Iraq Effect. I used to off-handedly reject austerity politics completely, viewing Keynesianism as some sort of mystical financial panacea. Used to be far more willing to subscribe to conspiracy theories too. And I used to be a hardcore secularist.

As time has gone on, I do think age has been a factor. As I've gotten older, and perhaps a little more world-weary, I don't have the same sort of vibrant political energy to subscribe to mass movements, and I don't feel the same sense of deep seated adolescent anger about anything and everything the government of the day has been doing. The politics of anger turns me off now, though whether that's to do with me moving further away from my teenage years or something else, I'm not honestly sure.

The political situation in the country is definitely another factor. Before 2015, the Labour Party was nowhere near as radical as it is today. Before 2017, the Tory Party was led by someone I could never support. I quickly learned to hate Corbynism, and I learned to like Mayism. That political conversion changed the perspectives I was listening to. Driven from one camp and into the arms of another, I definitely think I listen to a lot more centre right thought now that the centre left in my country has yielded largely to the far left. That change, however, isn't a consequence purely of that which has changed, as much as that which hasn't. My ideals on the constitution, political society and public decency undoubted contributed to my post-2015 estrangement from the Labour Party.

As I've stopped to listen to what the right have said about the state of the economy, and looked at the statistics, I've come out with a greater understanding of the necessity of austerity, and the consequences of national debt, than when I went in. Theresa May's conference speech last year, when it referred to the pitfalls of nationalised industry, gave me greater insight and understanding to just how burdensome and unwieldy nationalised industry could be - this coming from my previous youthful years when I wholeheartedly endorsed the calls for nationalisation from the left.

We are all, perhaps, chameleons. We change as our environment changes, and politics and philosophy are not immune to that environmental nurture. I'm really curious to see how others have changed, and why they have changed. What provokes us to re-evaluate even our most deeply held beliefs?

[The United Provinces of North America]

I've really no idea if a thread has already been made on this basis, and if so, I apologise vehemently. I also apologise if this isn't the right forum for it, it's been a long time since I was involved with NS way back and have only recently returned, so I'm a bit rusty.

Obviously this is meant to concern political and philosophical opinions, but I'm really curious to see and hear from other people whose opinions have changed on things, what has changed, and why.

For example, with regards to my own personal views, anyone who knew me four-five years ago would be well aware that I used to be far more left wing. Card carrying supporter of the Labour Party, somewhat pacifistic, drummed up with the Iraq Effect. I used to off-handedly reject austerity politics completely, viewing Keynesianism as some sort of mystical financial panacea. Used to be far more willing to subscribe to conspiracy theories too. And I used to be a hardcore secularist.

As time has gone on, I do think age has been a factor. As I've gotten older, and perhaps a little more world-weary, I don't have the same sort of vibrant political energy to subscribe to mass movements, and I don't feel the same sense of deep seated adolescent anger about anything and everything the government of the day has been doing. The politics of anger turns me off now, though whether that's to do with me moving further away from my teenage years or something else, I'm not honestly sure.

The political situation in the country is definitely another factor. Before 2015, the Labour Party was nowhere near as radical as it is today. Before 2017, the Tory Party was led by someone I could never support. I quickly learned to hate Corbynism, and I learned to like Mayism. That political conversion changed the perspectives I was listening to. Driven from one camp and into the arms of another, I definitely think I listen to a lot more centre right thought now that the centre left in my country has yielded largely to the far left. That change, however, isn't a consequence purely of that which has changed, as much as that which hasn't. My ideals on the constitution, political society and public decency undoubted contributed to my post-2015 estrangement from the Labour Party.

As I've stopped to listen to what the right have said about the state of the economy, and looked at the statistics, I've come out with a greater understanding of the necessity of austerity, and the consequences of national debt, than when I went in. Theresa May's conference speech last year, when it referred to the pitfalls of nationalised industry, gave me greater insight and understanding to just how burdensome and unwieldy nationalised industry could be - this coming from my previous youthful years when I wholeheartedly endorsed the calls for nationalisation from the left.

We are all, perhaps, chameleons. We change as our environment changes, and politics and philosophy are not immune to that environmental nurture. I'm really curious to see how others have changed, and why they have changed. What provokes us to re-evaluate even our most deeply held beliefs?

I used to be Left thinking as well until 2016, as the Democratic party kept attacking Trump and calling Caucasian males racist, sexist, homophobic. Every slur under the sun, while saying racial slurs themselves, ironic and hypocrisy at it's finest. The party has become radical and rather than trying to find a middle ground, it keeps up with the same slurs. It has become apparent they are upset about not winning the 2016 election, and it's apparent they know in 2020 they will lose. I have become a Centrist and if Joe Biden isn't nominated, expect Trump to be the president of the United States for another four years!

[Arthenius]

I've really no idea if a thread has already been made on this basis, and if so, I apologise vehemently. I also apologise if this isn't the right forum for it, it's been a long time since I was involved with NS way back and have only recently returned, so I'm a bit rusty.

Obviously this is meant to concern political and philosophical opinions, but I'm really curious to see and hear from other people whose opinions have changed on things, what has changed, and why.

For example, with regards to my own personal views, anyone who knew me four-five years ago would be well aware that I used to be far more left wing. Card carrying supporter of the Labour Party, somewhat pacifistic, drummed up with the Iraq Effect. I used to off-handedly reject austerity politics completely, viewing Keynesianism as some sort of mystical financial panacea. Used to be far more willing to subscribe to conspiracy theories too. And I used to be a hardcore secularist.

As time has gone on, I do think age has been a factor. As I've gotten older, and perhaps a little more world-weary, I don't have the same sort of vibrant political energy to subscribe to mass movements, and I don't feel the same sense of deep seated adolescent anger about anything and everything the government of the day has been doing. The politics of anger turns me off now, though whether that's to do with me moving further away from my teenage years or something else, I'm not honestly sure.

The political situation in the country is definitely another factor. Before 2015, the Labour Party was nowhere near as radical as it is today. Before 2017, the Tory Party was led by someone I could never support. I quickly learned to hate Corbynism, and I learned to like Mayism. That political conversion changed the perspectives I was listening to. Driven from one camp and into the arms of another, I definitely think I listen to a lot more centre right thought now that the centre left in my country has yielded largely to the far left. That change, however, isn't a consequence purely of that which has changed, as much as that which hasn't. My ideals on the constitution, political society and public decency undoubted contributed to my post-2015 estrangement from the Labour Party.

As I've stopped to listen to what the right have said about the state of the economy, and looked at the statistics, I've come out with a greater understanding of the necessity of austerity, and the consequences of national debt, than when I went in. Theresa May's conference speech last year, when it referred to the pitfalls of nationalised industry, gave me greater insight and understanding to just how burdensome and unwieldy nationalised industry could be - this coming from my previous youthful years when I wholeheartedly endorsed the calls for nationalisation from the left.

We are all, perhaps, chameleons. We change as our environment changes, and politics and philosophy are not immune to that environmental nurture. I'm really curious to see how others have changed, and why they have changed. What provokes us to re-evaluate even our most deeply held beliefs?

I used to be Left thinking as well until 2016, as the Democratic party kept attacking Trump and calling Caucasian males racist, sexist, homophobic. Every slur under the sun, while saying racial slurs themselves, ironic and hypocrisy at it's finest. The party has become radical and rather than trying to find a middle ground, it keeps up with the same slurs. It had become apparent they are upset about not winning the 2016 election, and it's apparent they know in 2020 they will lose. I have become centrist and if Joe Biden isn't nominated, expect Trump to be the president of the United States for another four years!

I live in America like you and I was always right-ish since I started even realizing politics. You can imagine the current climate pushing me even further to the right.

[Cekoviu]

I used to be an anarcho-primitivist, which speaks for itself...

I used to be Left thinking as well until 2016, as the Democratic party kept attacking Trump and calling Caucasian males racist, sexist, homophobic. Every slur under the sun, while saying racial slurs themselves, ironic and hypocrisy at it's finest. The party has become radical and rather than trying to find a middle ground, it keeps up with the same slurs. It had become apparent they are upset about not winning the 2016 election, and it's apparent they know in 2020 they will lose. I have become a Centrist and if Joe Biden isn't nominated, expect Trump to be the president of the United States for another four years!

Referring to everybody who's white as Caucasian is much more offensive than anything commonly used by Democrats. By the way, I'm white; ergo, I'm an authority on this. Perhaps be a bit less sanctimonious?

[Geneviev]

Relatively recently, about a few months ago or so, I came to the conclusion that my religion was wrong and a lot of my political opinions based on it may be just as wrong. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to believe about those sorts of things. As for why I changed my mind, a lot of people on NSG and elsewhere had been disagreeing with my beliefs and my church for a long time, and eventually I realized that what I thought was a defense of them didn't mean anything. I couldn't agree with it anymore after that.

[The United Provinces of North America]

I used to be an anarcho-primitivist, which speaks for itself...

I used to be Left thinking as well until 2016, as the Democratic party kept attacking Trump and calling Caucasian males racist, sexist, homophobic. Every slur under the sun, while saying racial slurs themselves, ironic and hypocrisy at it's finest. The party has become radical and rather than trying to find a middle ground, it keeps up with the same slurs. It had become apparent they are upset about not winning the 2016 election, and it's apparent they know in 2020 they will lose. I have become a Centrist and if Joe Biden isn't nominated, expect Trump to be the president of the United States for another four years!

Referring to everybody who's white as Caucasian is much more offensive than anything commonly used by Democrats. By the way, I'm white; ergo, I'm an authority on this. Perhaps be a bit less sanctimonious?

I think you need to speak to the Far Left Democrats, since they throw around racial slurs.

[Exxosia]

I would say I cannot really pin down the exact moment I changed my mind as it has been very gradual. I simply slipped further and further towards an anarchic bent as I was abused and mistreated more and more on top of learning basic mathematics.

Ever since I was a little kid, I have simply seen that so much of this is beyond wrong and entirely unnecessary unless the goal is to destroy human potential. Decade after decade, I have seen massive injustices and evils committed, often supported by policy that would not stand up to elementary school level mathematical analysis, and grown towards a terrified resolution that the absence of these systems would be the best possible situation.

[New Periapsis]

I'm noticing a trend here with my addition. I was never even remotely interested in politics until 2016 because for the first time in a long time I turned on the news and saw my worst nightmares come to fruition. I saw the beginnings of a world on the verge of completely tearing itself apart. What made it worse is that I understood how exactly it wasn't even just the politics itself, it was people peddling toxic news agendas for profit and others listening to it joining in because of how group mentality works. Find a group, become one of many, become anonymous as a result, and as a bonus have a chance to socialize. I became invested because I was scared of what I had seen. I saw people beginning to constantly riot and hurt each other for no logical reason. Others perverting wonderful and much needed social movements of all ages with hate, ignorance, and hypocrisy all while ignoring the lessons of the present and even the past. Some of it can be reasonably explained, either with mob mentality again or the Blowback/Backfire Effect but the rest? I don't know. It just leaves me feeling empty and depressed though because I see something I predicted would happen when I'm older as a child but always expected it to be when I was too physically old to do anything to fix it. Despite not knowing what I want to choose as a career path, all my life I've dedicated my finite time to wanting to help the world and I'm powerless to stop the train wreck that will be the doom of us all. I don't know how to make things or be an engineer, I doubt my skills in math constantly, I can't seem to come up with big ideas anymore, I'm just.... here. And I have the resources and can't come up with a way to help.

[Sovaal]

I'm noticing a trend here with my addition. I was never even remotely interested in politics until 2016 because for the first time in a long time I turned on the news and saw my worst nightmares come to fruition. I saw the beginnings of a world on the verge of completely tearing itself apart. What made it worse is that I understood how exactly it wasn't even just the politics itself, it was people peddling toxic news agendas for profit and others listening to it joining in because of how group mentality works. Find a group, become one of many, become anonymous as a result, and as a bonus have a chance to socialize. I became invested because I was scared of what I had seen. I saw people beginning to constantly riot and hurt each other for no logical reason. Others perverting wonderful and much needed social movements of all ages with hate, ignorance, and hypocrisy all while ignoring the lessons of the present and even the past. Some of it can be reasonably explained, either with mob mentality again or the Blowback/Backfire Effect but the rest? I don't know. It just leaves me feeling empty and depressed though because I see something I predicted would happen when I'm older as a child but always expected it to be when I was too physically old to do anything to fix it. Despite not knowing what I want to choose as a career path, all my life I've dedicated my finite time to wanting to help the world and I'm powerless to stop the train wreck that will be the doom of us all. I don't know how to make things or be an engineer, I doubt my skills in math constantly, I can't seem to come up with big ideas anymore, I'm just.... here. And I have the resources and can't come up with a way to help.

Worlds always been on fire. Don’t put it’s entire weight on your shoulders.

[The United Provinces of North America]

Far Left racism in action https://www.wxyz.com/news/chief-craig-c ... ion-racist She denies that it's racist to assume all African Americans look the same, ironic, that is racist to it's very core.

[Dangine]

I used to be pro free speech. I used to believe that things including harassment should not be illegal because harassment being illegal goes against the principle of freedom of speech. This all changed when I was debating with someone about a topic that had to do with freedom of speech and realized they were right. I view freedom of speech as freedom of all speech, including things like harassment. If I do not support that harassment should be legal then I can not view myself as someone who views free speech. It is called freedom of speech, not freedom of some speech.

[Sovaal]

I used to be pro free speech. I used to believe that things including harassment should not be illegal because harassment being illegal goes against the principle of freedom of speech. This all changed when I was debating with someone about a topic that had to do with freedom of speech and realized they were right. I view freedom of speech as freedom of all speech, including things like harassment. If I do not support that harassment should be legal then I can not view myself as someone who views free speech. It is called freedom of speech, not freedom of some speech.

So what do support then?

[Geneviev]

I'm noticing a trend here with my addition. I was never even remotely interested in politics until 2016 because for the first time in a long time I turned on the news and saw my worst nightmares come to fruition. I saw the beginnings of a world on the verge of completely tearing itself apart. What made it worse is that I understood how exactly it wasn't even just the politics itself, it was people peddling toxic news agendas for profit and others listening to it joining in because of how group mentality works. Find a group, become one of many, become anonymous as a result, and as a bonus have a chance to socialize. I became invested because I was scared of what I had seen. I saw people beginning to constantly riot and hurt each other for no logical reason. Others perverting wonderful and much needed social movements of all ages with hate, ignorance, and hypocrisy all while ignoring the lessons of the present and even the past. Some of it can be reasonably explained, either with mob mentality again or the Blowback/Backfire Effect but the rest? I don't know. It just leaves me feeling empty and depressed though because I see something I predicted would happen when I'm older as a child but always expected it to be when I was too physically old to do anything to fix it. Despite not knowing what I want to choose as a career path, all my life I've dedicated my finite time to wanting to help the world and I'm powerless to stop the train wreck that will be the doom of us all. I don't know how to make things or be an engineer, I doubt my skills in math constantly, I can't seem to come up with big ideas anymore, I'm just.... here. And I have the resources and can't come up with a way to help.

That's the worst thing, being powerless to change something that you dread. Most people either have the idea of what they can do and they can't do it, or they can do something but don't know what to do. They're both incredibly frustrating and depressing. What you could do is find someone who can do something.

[Napkizemlja]

Relatively recently, about a few months ago or so, I came to the conclusion that my religion was wrong and a lot of my political opinions based on it may be just as wrong. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to believe about those sorts of things. As for why I changed my mind, a lot of people on NSG and elsewhere had been disagreeing with my beliefs and my church for a long time, and eventually I realized that what I thought was a defense of them didn't mean anything. I couldn't agree with it anymore after that.

If I'm reading this right, you abandoned your beliefs, especially of your church, because people didn't agree with them?

[The United Provinces of North America]

I used to be pro free speech. I used to believe that things including harassment should not be illegal because harassment being illegal goes against the principle of freedom of speech. This all changed when I was debating with someone about a topic that had to do with freedom of speech and realized they were right. I view freedom of speech as freedom of all speech, including things like harassment. If I do not support that harassment should be legal then I can not view myself as someone who views free speech. It is called freedom of speech, not freedom of some speech.

So what do support then?

He/She supports Freedom of Speech, not censorship.

[Geneviev]

Relatively recently, about a few months ago or so, I came to the conclusion that my religion was wrong and a lot of my political opinions based on it may be just as wrong. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to believe about those sorts of things. As for why I changed my mind, a lot of people on NSG and elsewhere had been disagreeing with my beliefs and my church for a long time, and eventually I realized that what I thought was a defense of them didn't mean anything. I couldn't agree with it anymore after that.

If I'm reading this right, you abandoned your beliefs, especially of your church, because people didn't agree with them?

Because I couldn't agree with something I couldn't defend.

[Napkizemlja]

I dunno. I can't really pin point it to one thing. I guess just reading more conservative philosophy and interacting with people more changed my views. My views regarding abortion funnily enough didn't actually begin with my new found religious beliefs, but while I was still an atheist.

[Xmara]

I used to be much more right-wing when I was in my early teens.

During Obama's second term, my right-wing Facebook friends and Facebook groups started posting ridiculous crap and conspiracy theories (think Infowars and Breitbart). Stuff like "it is no longer safe to be a straight white conservative Christian in the United States" and "liberals worship the devil" was pretty common. Initially I believed them. At one point I even worried that my family would be hauled off to a FEMA camp. It's embarrassing to think that I was so naive at one point in life.

Then I began to think: if it really is so dangerous to be a straight white conservative Christian in the United States, then why has nothing happened to me yet? Why has nothing happened to any of my family or friends? Where is the evidence that anything like FEMA camps exist? I also began to interact with people who did not share the same political views that I did and began to realize that a lot of what I had been told about liberals was wrong.

After that, I started leaving Facebook groups and dropping friends. I eventually quit Facebook altogether and deleted my profile (really would not want anyone discovering my old profile and thinking I still acted that way).

Now, I identify as centrist. No, I am not an "enlightened centrist." I just identify as such because I agree with the right on some things and the left on other things but I don't agree with enough stuff on either side to really identify with one or the other.

[Bombadil]

I'm noticing a trend here with my addition. I was never even remotely interested in politics until 2016 because for the first time in a long time I turned on the news and saw my worst nightmares come to fruition. I saw the beginnings of a world on the verge of completely tearing itself apart. What made it worse is that I understood how exactly it wasn't even just the politics itself, it was people peddling toxic news agendas for profit and others listening to it joining in because of how group mentality works. Find a group, become one of many, become anonymous as a result, and as a bonus have a chance to socialize. I became invested because I was scared of what I had seen. I saw people beginning to constantly riot and hurt each other for no logical reason. Others perverting wonderful and much needed social movements of all ages with hate, ignorance, and hypocrisy all while ignoring the lessons of the present and even the past. Some of it can be reasonably explained, either with mob mentality again or the Blowback/Backfire Effect but the rest? I don't know. It just leaves me feeling empty and depressed though because I see something I predicted would happen when I'm older as a child but always expected it to be when I was too physically old to do anything to fix it. Despite not knowing what I want to choose as a career path, all my life I've dedicated my finite time to wanting to help the world and I'm powerless to stop the train wreck that will be the doom of us all. I don't know how to make things or be an engineer, I doubt my skills in math constantly, I can't seem to come up with big ideas anymore, I'm just.... here. And I have the resources and can't come up with a way to help.

https://reliefweb.int/jobs - lists NGO positions across the world, go do something

[The United Provinces of North America]

If I'm reading this right, you abandoned your beliefs, especially of your church, because people didn't agree with them?

Because I couldn't agree with something I couldn't defend.

Honestly not to hurt your feelings, but if people can attack you into changing your beliefs. It shows how weak/insecure you're. No offense intended, please don't take it the wrong way!

[Sovaal]

Relatively recently, about a few months ago or so, I came to the conclusion that my religion was wrong and a lot of my political opinions based on it may be just as wrong. I'm still trying to figure out what I want to believe about those sorts of things. As for why I changed my mind, a lot of people on NSG and elsewhere had been disagreeing with my beliefs and my church for a long time, and eventually I realized that what I thought was a defense of them didn't mean anything. I couldn't agree with it anymore after that.

If I'm reading this right, you abandoned your beliefs, especially of your church, because people didn't agree with them?

I took it as in the disagreement and arguments casuals them to think about their own positions.

[Geneviev]

Because I couldn't agree with something I couldn't defend.

Honestly not to hurt your feelings, but if people can attack you into changing your beliefs. It shows how weak/insecure you're. No offense intended, please don't take it the wrong way!

I'd say being able to reconsider something as important to me as my belief in God would make me less weak, but that's a matter of opinion.

[The United Provinces of North America]

Honestly not to hurt your feelings, but if people can attack you into changing your beliefs. It shows how weak/insecure you're. No offense intended, please don't take it the wrong way!

I'd say being able to reconsider something as important to me as my belief in God would make me less weak, but that's a matter of opinion.

I am not super religious, but hey if it makes you feel stronger that's a positive!

[Sovaal]

Because I couldn't agree with something I couldn't defend.

Honestly not to hurt your feelings, but if people can attack you into changing your beliefs. It shows how weak/insecure you're. No offense intended, please don't take it the wrong way!

Or maybe their just capable of internal reflection.

[Geneviev]

I'd say being able to reconsider something as important to me as my belief in God would make me less weak, but that's a matter of opinion.

I am not super religious, but hey if it makes you feel stronger that's a positive!

It doesn't really, but okay.