Hong Kong

[Plzen]

I very much appreciate the liberal principles handed down and developed by my ancestors and cultural heroes. They tend to allow me a bit more freedom than the authoritarian principles of less civilized societies that I quite disagree with.

If being willing to stand up for liberty and Justice for all condemns me to just be an 'American nationalist' in your eyes, then I pity you for the shades of grey you see in a world of vibrant colors and life.

[...] America, which has more prisoners than anywhere else on Earth and keeps them as slaves

which irc is constitutional.

"Slavery is totally fine, the Constitution says so."

I'll say it again:

Americans...

[Plzen]

I never said they don't mean things, commie.

I know, I know. I'm agreeing with you, in my own sarcastic little way.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

I very much appreciate the liberal principles handed down and developed by my ancestors and cultural heroes. They tend to allow me a bit more freedom than the authoritarian principles of less civilized societies that I quite disagree with.

If being willing to stand up for liberty and Justice for all condemns me to just be an 'American nationalist' in your eyes, then I pity you for the shades of grey you see in a world of vibrant colors and life.

which irc is constitutional.

"Slavery is totally fine, the Constitution says so."

I'll say it again:

Americans...

Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

[Loben The 2nd]

I very much appreciate the liberal principles handed down and developed by my ancestors and cultural heroes. They tend to allow me a bit more freedom than the authoritarian principles of less civilized societies that I quite disagree with.

If being willing to stand up for liberty and Justice for all condemns me to just be an 'American nationalist' in your eyes, then I pity you for the shades of grey you see in a world of vibrant colors and life.

which irc is constitutional.

"Slavery is totally fine, the Constitution says so."

I'll say it again:

Americans...

as a form of punishment.

[The South Falls]

Wait, are you proposing that words ought to actually mean things?

Nooooooo. Surely not. That would be doubleplusungood blackwhite crimethink.

I never said they don't mean things, commie.

I can just imagine a younger version of Reagan sneering: commieeeee... while chewing jellybeans.

[Loben The 2nd]

"Slavery is totally fine, the Constitution says so."

I'll say it again:

Americans...

Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

kay.

[The South Falls]

Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

kay.

It sounds like a sig quote if I were you.

[Loben The 2nd]

kay.

It sounds like a sig quote if I were you.

i fucking might

[The South Falls]

It sounds like a sig quote if I were you.

i fucking might

The absolute madman.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

i fucking might

The absolute madman.

He just did it lol.

[Plzen]

Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

While I'm aware that this doesn't represent the opinion of all Americans, it seems to be a thing that characterises them more than other nationalities.

I've discussed politics, both on the internet and in real life, with people from many different countries, and no other nationality I've met is so obsessed, as a community, with what is written in their founding documents or said by their founding fathers as that of the United States.

Yes, the Constitution was a great document and a landmark in the progress of human values... when it was written, which was almost two and a half centuries ago.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Loben is a low tier poster who hardly represents Americans. He is pretty much an edgelord.

While I'm aware that this doesn't represent the opinion of all Americans, it seems to be a thing that characterises them more than other nationalities.

I've discussed politics, both on the internet and in real life, with people from many different countries, and no other nationality I've met is so obsessed, as a community, with what is written in their founding documents or said by their founding fathers as that of the United States.

Yes, the Constitution was a great document and a landmark in the progress of human values... when it was written, which was almost two and a half centuries ago.

Yes, it should be updated from time to time, but it is still a great document.

We like that document because it embodies most of our values. It is what we were founded on, and we're not going to forget that.

[Loben The 2nd]

The absolute madman.

He just did it lol.

i fucking did.

[LiberNovusAmericae]

He just did it lol.

i fucking did.

I'm quite amused to be honest.

[The South Falls]

The absolute madman.

He just did it lol.

I am in awe of the pair of balls on this man. A true american madlad.

[Pretty Much God]

Tankie is a good term to describe people like him.

I'm not Irish, I am a Marxist, I'm not a he, not a tankie either, I do like Stalin.

So, do you have an argument, or are you just going to type out how I'm an "ebil ccP shill tanky" until you fall into a food coma?

You go ahead and keep slurping that Chinese tankie mind control fluid.

[Grenartia]

"Slavery is totally fine, the Constitution says so."

I'll say it again:

Americans...

as a form of punishment.

That doesn't make it any better.

You're fucking El-Amining it.

[Heloin]

Notice how no Muslim nations condemned China's Uyghur policies.

UN didn't even report on it

Of course Burma defended... I love my country so damn much...... /s

I think the Burmese Government would recognise that throwing stones isn't that great of an idea from their glass house.

[Samudera Darussalam]

https://web.archive.org/web/20180801041 ... 88533.html *does shaky hand motion*
Besides aren't they non-native perspectives and at least partly non-Asian?

Notice how no Muslim nations condemned China's Uyghur policies.

UN didn't even report on it

Many of those Muslim nations have great economic relationships with China, including Pakistan and my own country, Indonesia. Of course, with money involved, people should've known better.
Though that doesn't mean that we regular citizens condone or support what China does in Xinjiang.

[Pretty Much God]

https://web.archive.org/web/20180801041 ... 88533.html *does shaky hand motion*
Besides aren't they non-native perspectives and at least partly non-Asian?

Notice how no Muslim nations condemned China's Uyghur policies.

UN didn't even report on it

That's funny...half of those defending China are either undemocratic and/or have a spotty humans rights record themselves.

[Duhon]

Of course Burma defended... I love my country so damn much...... /s

I think the Burmese Government would recognise that throwing stones isn't that great of an idea from their glass house.

predatory birds of a feather blah blah blah

[Infected Mushroom]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

[Tuthina]

Hong Kong? My thoughts? It's a pity, it's a shame, wish it weren't happening, but unfortunately the US has been too focused in Western Asia in recent history to have a means of viably weighing in here. Best bet for Hong Kong? To settle in and wait for the long winter to come because the monolithic power of the CCP isn't going to be stopped because of demonstrations. It's stopped when war breaks out and no one is willing to unleash that can of worms in Asia again.

Best case scenario? China agrees to an extension of Hong Kong culture and society for an additional decade or two during transition, and then just pop-bombs the city until the original denizens are a minority and can be safely carted off. Hong Kong will fall, the Borg will assimilate, resistance is futile. The US won't come to help, no nation of consequence will offer public support, there's not enough momentum behind the Hong Kong protests from outside to even try and create that momentum.

Why? Because we already gave China the keys to the kingdom a long time ago in Asia in return for cheap, unregulated, state-sponsored labor. They're the industrial heartland of about every 'modern' western country in the world and no one can change that quickly enough to help.

Just because resistance is futile (which, while very likely, is not certain), doesn't mean we shouldn't resist, though. I also think that it's too late to stop and "settle in" now, now that the lid has been blown open. Once the movement fell from the limelight of international attention, the government will likely only hasten the process of assimilating Hong Kong into China, where many protesters, or even just sympathisers, would not meet a good end if they continue to stay in Hong Kong. Naturally, that also means that, as Eodor said, we do have a vested interest in seeing the downfall of CCP, as it was ultimately the one keeping the Hong Kong government afloat.

I suppose for many of us, the realisation that the struggle is now one of life and death (figuratively and, for some, perhaps literally) is starting to set in, and is one of the main reasons why the level of force used by some of the more proactive protesters has been steadily increasing. Tellingly, though, despite that, survey results and turnouts in large-scale protests (when they're approved by the police, that is) suggest that the more peaceful protesters, even if they don't participate in the more violent actions, consider it reasonable or at least understandable.

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

For someone supposedly living in Hong Kong, you seem painfully unaware of the fact that most protests occur outside working hours (weekday nights and weekends). The several strikes, even if their turnouts are not exactly ideal (in no small parts due to the lack of said backing due to the weak union tradition of the city), are still quite remarkable considering how few and small past strikes are. The participants are well-aware of the risk they put to their own well-being, but are willing to go forward anyway because, as something that you will probably never understand, there are something more important than personal financial well-being.

So, no, I don't see your point. I'm sure you won't see mine either, but that's fine. It's just that we should be aware that further exchanges between us are unlikely to change that.

[Grenartia]

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

Not really, if the cause is just and important, and needs swift action, then school and work can fucking wait.

Case in point: climate protests. What's the fucking point in working or going to school if the ecosystem is gonna collapse without massive changes? The concept of the Godzilla Threshold applies here.

Likewise, with HK, what's the point in working (to fundamentally benefit CCP) or learning (to get a job that will also fundamentally benefit CCP) when you are being oppressed by CCP, and are about to be oppressed even more?

[Infected Mushroom]

Hong Kong? My thoughts? It's a pity, it's a shame, wish it weren't happening, but unfortunately the US has been too focused in Western Asia in recent history to have a means of viably weighing in here. Best bet for Hong Kong? To settle in and wait for the long winter to come because the monolithic power of the CCP isn't going to be stopped because of demonstrations. It's stopped when war breaks out and no one is willing to unleash that can of worms in Asia again.

Best case scenario? China agrees to an extension of Hong Kong culture and society for an additional decade or two during transition, and then just pop-bombs the city until the original denizens are a minority and can be safely carted off. Hong Kong will fall, the Borg will assimilate, resistance is futile. The US won't come to help, no nation of consequence will offer public support, there's not enough momentum behind the Hong Kong protests from outside to even try and create that momentum.

Why? Because we already gave China the keys to the kingdom a long time ago in Asia in return for cheap, unregulated, state-sponsored labor. They're the industrial heartland of about every 'modern' western country in the world and no one can change that quickly enough to help.

Just because resistance is futile (which, while very likely, is not certain), doesn't mean we shouldn't resist, though. I also think that it's too late to stop and "settle in" now, now that the lid has been blown open. Once the movement fell from the limelight of international attention, the government will likely only hasten the process of assimilating Hong Kong into China, where many protesters, or even just sympathisers, would not meet a good end if they continue to stay in Hong Kong. Naturally, that also means that, as Eodor said, we do have a vested interest in seeing the downfall of CCP, as it was ultimately the one keeping the Hong Kong government afloat.

I suppose for many of us, the realisation that the struggle is now one of life and death (figuratively and, for some, perhaps literally) is starting to set in, and is one of the main reasons why the level of force used by some of the more proactive protesters has been steadily increasing. Tellingly, though, despite that, survey results and turnouts in large-scale protests (when they're approved by the police, that is) suggest that the more peaceful protesters, even if they don't participate in the more violent actions, consider it reasonable or at least understandable.

If you all think it’s so unrealistic (absolutely impossible, I think it’s at least possible) that a third party might be paying the protestors then let me ask you this:

How many of you would skip school/work and put both irreparably at risk just to engage in dangerous protests for over several months?

See my point?

For someone supposedly living in Hong Kong, you seem painfully unaware of the fact that most protests occur outside working hours (weekday nights and weekends). The several strikes, even if their turnouts are not exactly ideal (in no small parts due to the lack of said backing due to the weak union tradition of the city), are still quite remarkable considering how few and small past strikes are.

But your grades and off the clock work prep will also fall

And the bigger issue is your future prospects if arrested （and everyone knows the police are only bidding their time for a mass arrest, it’s only a question of When)

Point is, I find it hard to believe people would undertake such consistent and egregious risks without some kind of compensation or exit strategy by a powerful third party