How are multiple asks/bids handled?

by **VW53Aland** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 1:55 am

I think an error has been made. Or there is a bug in the system. Or the system is rigged by a user.

I assumed the following:

When there are multiple bids and just one ask (lower than the lowest bid), the ask and the highest bid will trade (so, the highest bid will get to buy the card at a price halfway between the ask and his bid)
When, in the situation above, a second ask comes in, higher than the first, but still equal or lower than the bids, this will not change the situation for the first ask (so, the highest bid and the lower ask are traded, and the second, higher ask, will trade with the second highest bid if they still match)
If the second ask in the situation above was equal to the first ask, the first ask will still keep its trade as it was, the oldest equal ask or bid will trade first
one cannot ask/bid under 0.01

Please tell me which of these assumptions was false.

Yesterday, I found about 50 bids on a card I owned. Almost all bids were 2.00
There were no asks.
So I asked 0.01, the first and lowest possible ask. As was to be expected, a trade would happen within an hour between the first 2.00 bid and my 0.01 ask at a halfway price of 1.01
It would be certain and irreversible that this trade would take place. No lower ask was possible. An second, equal ask could not push mine out of the deal. A secondary, lower or equal bid would still let me trade with the highest bid. A higher bid would have pushed the previous highest bid out of the trade, meaning I would even get more than 1.01
This morning, I found I had only received 0.26
I therefore believe at least 0.75 was 'stolen' from me. I am happy with the 0.26, but I think the 1.01 trade was unavoidable. If it was not, I want to know how/why?, so I can keep that in mind for future trades. And otherwise, if the system is rigged, or someone is abusing some kind of admin powers, then that would be sad and I probably would not be using the platform any more.

Here is the actual trade list as I found it this morning:
(You may note that the times are off, but I forgot about the trade last night and put my computer to hibernation before I went to bed, therefore the times did not get updated after that.)

And this is the card: Tiradella, so you can see for yourself.

Thanks in advance for your explanation and assistance.

On behalf of The Dark Side of the Globe, VW53ALand

by **Frisbeeteria** » Sat Oct 05, 2019 10:48 am

VW53Aland wrote:I think an error has been made. Or there is a bug in the system. Or the system is rigged by a user.

No, no, and no. You just don't understand the bidding process.

Your assumption in (2) and (3) are incorrect. The only time when your assumption would be true is if there were only one Bid. In that case, the lowest Ask wins the auction. However, if other Bids are made, they are matched in price order to the nearest Ask. If I had been paying attention to that auction, I'd have bought your card for 0.01 and sold it in the next auction for 2.00.

by **VW53Aland** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 1:04 pm

Thank you for your answer Frisbeeteria.
So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two asks. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I bid 0.01 and it is matched to the ask of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and bids 0.02, than my bid is (re)matched to the ask of 0.05 and the 0.02 bid is matched to the 2.00?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were asks for 0.05 as well.

by **The Pkunk Alliance** » Wed Oct 09, 2019 3:10 pm

VW53Aland wrote:Thank you for your answer Frisbeeteria.
So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two asks. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I bid 0.01 and it is matched to the ask of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and bids 0.02, than my bid is (re)matched to the ask of 0.05 and the 0.02 bid is matched to the 2.00?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were asks for 0.05 as well.

If your bid is much lower than any ask (like in your scenario .01 bid against .05 and 2.00 asks) it is a moot point. No trade initiated.

If you bid 2.00, it will indeed match to the lowest ask that is lower than the bid.

If a bunch of people make further, higher value bids, it is very likely the original bid will be knocked aside as they are higher.

If more asks are made as well, they catch bids that are higher as they are closer in value to those bids. Your original .01 ask must have been overrun by a massive number of bids and subsequent asks.

It is often wiser to place an ask closer to highest bid as one stands a good chance at making a profit without interference stealing the value of the sale that way.

by **VW53Aland** » Sat Oct 12, 2019 2:19 pm

I apologize. I see I have mixed up the bids and asks. I will rephrase my question, as it should have read:

So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two bids. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I ask 0.01 and it is matched to the bid of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and asks 0.02, than my ask is (re)matched to the bid of 0.05 and the 0.02 ask is matched to the 2.00 bid?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were bids for 0.05 as well.

by **The Pkunk Alliance** » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:56 pm

VW53Aland wrote:I apologize. I see I have mixed up the bids and asks. I will rephrase my question, as it should have read:
So, just to be sure I understand; an example.
On a card are two bids. One for 0.05 and one for 2.00
Now I ask 0.01 and it is matched to the bid of 2.00 (A trade is due in 1 hour for an averaged price of 1.01)
But if within that hour one comes along and asks 0.02, than my ask is (re)matched to the bid of 0.05 and the 0.02 ask is matched to the 2.00 bid?

If that is the case, then I should indeed be lucky that I still got 0.26 because there were bids for 0.05 as well.

I think you should reread my response, as I think I anticipated what you meant.

In short, your small ask was overrun by future asks (that were smaller than future bids) and bids that were initially higher than 2 but later lower to more closely match those asks.

Check the trade history of the card in question for details

Putting such a low ask likely baited a lot of people to respond, thus leading to the horde of future asks and bids

by **Refuge Isle** » Tue Oct 15, 2019 6:59 pm

Oh, I didn't actually see that this was about my transfer card.

An easy way to keep track of things in your brain box is that, on the left, new asks are inserted from the bottom. On the right, new bids are inserted from the top. They're then arranged by their values, if they are different. Especially, in the case of a bunch of ask/bids that are all the same price, you can send in new asks or bids to push matches to different ones, provided if you have enough bank and copies of a card. Obviously matches with bids that don't mirror the asks split the difference.

The log history is huge, so I don't know if this was you but I remember seeing an ask on Tiradella of one cent, which I thought was hilarious because I know people make that thinking it's unbeatable. And I was mid-way through my bank transfer of some 130 puppets. So I just pushed it to the first person that wasn't me, to show how it wasn't a good strategy. Ordinarily, I just buy people's copies outright at 2.00 bank, because it helps me as much as it helps you. You should sell it for 2.00 next time.

by **VW53Aland** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 11:10 am

If I would have sold mine for 2.00, someone else only had sell his for 1.99 and I would be stuck with a card no one would buy at that price. I thought selling it for 0.01 while someone was bidding 2.00 for it, was a sure deal for 1.01 One Bank is a very large amount for someone like me and I would have been very happy with that.

I still think there is something wrong with this system.
Imagine a card with one bid of 2.00
Then I put mine at sale for 0.01
In one hour time, a trade will be made at 1.01

Then, within that hour, someone comes along and puts his card on sale for, let's say 1.00.
Then the buyer no longer gets to buy my cheaper card, but the trade is going to the new seller at 1.50?!?
That would be so illogic. The buyer would pay more than necessary.

If you can buy an identical thing for either 0.01 or for 1.50, which one would you buy?! I was giving it away almost, but the game forces a buyer to pay the highest price? ~~Then the description about trading should be rectified.~~

Edit: I stand corrected. Auction rules state:

6. If there are multiple matching prices on both sides—both asks and bids—there will be multiple matches, with higher matching bids paired with higher matching asks. When the countdown expires, multiple copies of the card will be traded at once.

I did not know. And I still think it is weird. But okay. Nvm.

by **Refuge Isle** » Wed Oct 23, 2019 2:07 pm

VW53Aland wrote:If I would have sold mine for 2.00, someone else only had sell his for 1.99 and I would be stuck with a card no one would buy at that price. I thought selling it for 0.01 while someone was bidding 2.00 for it, was a sure deal for 1.01 One Bank is a very large amount for someone like me and I would have been very happy with that.

Fine, in theory, but when it comes to this card, I'm pretty much the only person that buys it, which is why I have some 78 copies. Every additional card that I buy allows me to make a transfer of 2.00 bank between my puppets and myself in the future, so the full transfer price is what I consider to be a fair reward if someone finds it on their own and wants to give it to me. For this situation, it's not grand market forces at work, just me.

How are multiple asks/bids handled?

How are multiple asks/bids handled?

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