by Bombadil » Sun Sep 22, 2019 11:46 pm
by Neanderthaland » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:15 am
by Aclion » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:20 am
by Bombadil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:24 am
Neanderthaland wrote:I think we can safely assume an Axis victory, in this case.
There are too many threads to try and tie together to say much of anything far-reaching, though. It's hard to say, for instance, if America would even join this war. And I couldn't guess what the impact of any answer to that question is. Japan probably would, but on the side of the Axis, and would want French colonies in the Pacific, just like the wanted German ones in our history. Is Belgium in this war? Italy? Whose side are they on?
Aclion wrote:I can't imagine america joining on the German side against France. If we did get involved it would probobly be 1812 2 trench warfare boogaloo.
by Neanderthaland » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:27 am
Aclion wrote:I can't imagine america joining on the German side against France. If we did get involved it would probobly be 1812 2 trench warfare boogaloo.
by Bombadil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:36 am
Neanderthaland wrote:The Germans weren't really hatted in the US at this point, though.
by Neanderthaland » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:38 am
by Stellar Colonies » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:41 am
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I try to be objective, but I do have some biases.
North Californian.
Stellar Colonies is a loose galactic confederacy.
The Confederacy & the WA.
Add 1200 years.
by Gormwood » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:43 am
by Neanderthaland » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:44 am
Gormwood wrote:The Nazis admired British aristocracy and a few members tried to emulate them. It would have set a trend in Germany if Britain had sided with the Nazis.
by Bombadil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 12:46 am
Gormwood wrote:The Nazis admired British aristocracy and a few members tried to emulate them. It would have set a trend in Germany if Britain had sided with the Nazis.
Stellar Colonies wrote:Japan would probably go after any French colonies that are in the Pacific, and smaller nations that stayed neutral or even fought against the Central Powers in OTL might join up with them or just stay neutral.
by Costa Fierro » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:10 am
by The Blaatschapen » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:50 am
Bombadil wrote:The 20th Century was a quirk in that after fighting the French for centuries Britain joined up and fought with the French in WW1 and WW2 making Germany the perceived baddies of British culture.
Simply, they forgot it's the French they don't like, not the Germans. Britain and Germany share a lot, from language roots to a love of beer and football, the original name of the Royal family is House of Saxe-Coburg-Gotha. George and Wilhelm were cousins.
The French have always been a pain in the ass.
So, for one, I imagine WW2 wouldn't have happened. One might argue the Communist Revolution would still happen although the White army may have had better success reinstating the Royal family if it was a strong GB and Germany.
Ultimately we wouldn't have this stupid Brexit and Europe as a whole might be a lot stronger.
However there's dozens of history buffs on this site with fancy History degrees and etc., so what think ye!
by The Archregimancy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:59 am
by Page » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:04 am
by Bombadil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:19 am
by The Blaatschapen » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:25 am
Page wrote:This alternate history scenario requires a point of divergence long before the start of the war as the countries involved were entangled in a complex web of alliances and defense obligations.
IRL: Austria-Hungary asked Germany if they'd have their back if they invaded Serbia, Germany said yes, Austria-Hungary invaded Serbia, Russia declared war on Austria-Hungary, German declared war on Russia, France declared war on Germany, and then Germany decided that rather than attacking France's heavily defended border directly, they'd go through neutral Belgium and that caused Britain to declare war on Germany.
A more realistic alt history scenario would be that Germany did attack France directly and that would have kept Britain neutral. Germany would have a much more difficult time initially but would have been better off in the long run, although probably would not "win" on the Western Front. But the Central Powers were winning on the Eastern front. The likely outcome is an armistice in which the Central Powers keep their gains in the Balkans and status quo antebellum on the Western Front. The Russian Revolution likely still happens. I can see a scenario in which Britain and Germany uphold a separate peace with one another while Britain still wages war on the Ottoman Empire. When all is said and done, Britain and Germany a
together with Austria-Hungary are the two great powers of Europe. Germany keeps its colonies in Africa, Austria-Hungary gets the Balkans, and Britain gets the Middle East. No Sykes-Picot in this world, a weakened France means Britain won't share the Levant.
At this point it's unlikely Germany and Britain will undo the Russian Revolution as both countries will be depleted from years of war. They will be hostile to the USSR but not invade them as invading Russia is a death wish in any universe. Plus, it's only a matter of time before the European powers have to deal with revolutions in their colonies.
It's hard to say if the world would be better off. The horror of World War 2 and the nazis would have been avoided, the Holocaust would not happen, but in this reality the stage is potentially set for a second world war sooner or later, and European monarchies with actually powerful monarchs would persist longer. It's even plausible that Germany, France, and Britain all have to contend with socialist revolutions down the line.
by Bombadil » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:31 am
The Blaatschapen wrote:Page wrote:This alternate history scenario requires a point of divergence long before the start of the war as the countries involved were entangled in a complex web of alliances and defense obligations.
IRL: Austria-Hungary asked Germany if they'd have their back if they invaded Serbia, Germany said yes, Austria-Hungary invaded Serbia, Russia declared war on Austria-Hungary, German declared war on Russia, France declared war on Germany, and then Germany decided that rather than attacking France's heavily defended border directly, they'd go through neutral Belgium and that caused Britain to declare war on Germany.
A more realistic alt history scenario would be that Germany did attack France directly and that would have kept Britain neutral. Germany would have a much more difficult time initially but would have been better off in the long run, although probably would not "win" on the Western Front. But the Central Powers were winning on the Eastern front. The likely outcome is an armistice in which the Central Powers keep their gains in the Balkans and status quo antebellum on the Western Front. The Russian Revolution likely still happens. I can see a scenario in which Britain and Germany uphold a separate peace with one another while Britain still wages war on the Ottoman Empire. When all is said and done, Britain and Germany a
together with Austria-Hungary are the two great powers of Europe. Germany keeps its colonies in Africa, Austria-Hungary gets the Balkans, and Britain gets the Middle East. No Sykes-Picot in this world, a weakened France means Britain won't share the Levant.
At this point it's unlikely Germany and Britain will undo the Russian Revolution as both countries will be depleted from years of war. They will be hostile to the USSR but not invade them as invading Russia is a death wish in any universe. Plus, it's only a matter of time before the European powers have to deal with revolutions in their colonies.
It's hard to say if the world would be better off. The horror of World War 2 and the nazis would have been avoided, the Holocaust would not happen, but in this reality the stage is potentially set for a second world war sooner or later, and European monarchies with actually powerful monarchs would persist longer. It's even plausible that Germany, France, and Britain all have to contend with socialist revolutions down the line.
A losing France would indeed very likely fall victim to communism. Or to fascism, it can be close. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/6_February_1934_crisis
(much later also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/May_1968_events_in_France )
by The Huskar Social Union » Mon Sep 23, 2019 2:36 am
by Thermodolia » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:02 am
by Ethel mermania » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:03 am
by Ethel mermania » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:05 am
Thermodolia wrote:It would be impossible. Remember the only reason the Brits joined was because the Germans invaded Belgium to get to the French. That’s why they joined in against the Germans not because they liked the French or anything but because the supported the Belgians independence.
If Germany hadn’t invaded Belgium it’s highly likely that the UK never would have gotten involved which would have most likely led to an earlier ceasefire
by Thermodolia » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:08 am
Bombadil wrote:My premise rests on war having broken out, so GB pull a volte face on the condition Germany uses Belgium as a highway only with no long term occupation with the goal of protecting monarchies, reducing Russia in Central Asia and grabbing some French territory in Asia.
Point being that wars broken out and, slightly further, that the Anglo-German alliance wins and what that means for Europe given likely no cold war - good - continuation of monarchies - possibly bad..
..I do agree that there'd likely be another European war shortly.
by The Archregimancy » Mon Sep 23, 2019 4:20 am
Bombadil wrote:My premise rests on war having broken out, so GB pull a volte face on the condition Germany uses Belgium as a highway only with no long term occupation with the goal of protecting monarchies, reducing Russia in Central Asia and grabbing some French territory in Asia.
by North German Realm » Mon Sep 23, 2019 5:16 am
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
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