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Ooh this is interesting: A mass shooting, but in SELF-DEF???

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Thermodolia
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Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:17 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Public execution has a teaching effect.

The only reason capital punishment isn't a deterrent is because it isn't applied often enough.

Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less
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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:20 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:The only reason capital punishment isn't a deterrent is because it isn't applied often enough.

Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less

It's only expensive because we let them file an endless litany of frivolous appeals to drag things out.
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Gormwood
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:22 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:The only reason capital punishment isn't a deterrent is because it isn't applied often enough.

Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less

Death penalties also have mandated appeals that cost money and time. Unless of course the usual suspects want the appeals abolished on top of lowering the threshold for handing out the death penalty. That there looks pretty despotic.
Last edited by Gormwood on Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gormwood
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:24 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less

It's only expensive because we let them file an endless litany of frivolous appeals to drag things out.

Abolish all appeals. Just brilliant. I'd make a crack about making a real Thunderdome except you'd unironically find it a great idea.
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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:24 pm

Gormwood wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:It's only expensive because we let them file an endless litany of frivolous appeals to drag things out.

Abolish all appeals. Just brilliant. I'd make a crack about making a real Thunderdome except you'd unironically find it a great idea.

Please point out exactly where I said "abolish all appeals".
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Gormwood
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Gormwood » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:26 pm

The Two Jerseys wrote:
Gormwood wrote:Abolish all appeals. Just brilliant. I'd make a crack about making a real Thunderdome except you'd unironically find it a great idea.

Please point out exactly where I said "abolish all appeals".

You're arguing there should be more public executions and that automatic appeals are getting in the way of your Saw fantasies.
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The Two Jerseys
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:39 pm

Gormwood wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:Please point out exactly where I said "abolish all appeals".

You're arguing there should be more public executions

Irrelevant.
and that automatic appeals are getting in the way of your Saw fantasies.

Please point out where I said that.
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Diopolis
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Founded: May 15, 2012
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Postby Diopolis » Sat Sep 21, 2019 4:56 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:The only reason capital punishment isn't a deterrent is because it isn't applied often enough.

Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less

That’s why there should be a limit on the number of appeals. And having the neighborhood come together to stone a drug dealer who used to operate there- get your puns out now- would be cheaper and more effective.
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Kernen
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:01 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less

That’s why there should be a limit on the number of appeals. And having the neighborhood come together to stone a drug dealer who used to operate there- get your puns out now- would be cheaper and more effective.

And inherently unjust.

Unlimited appeals are a good thing. Its not just an appeal for appeal's sake. You need to have legal grounds on which to challenge the ruling, which includes new information since the last appeal. Its not just a merry-go-round of "Please? No."
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Thermodolia
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 58754
Founded: Oct 07, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Thermodolia » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:11 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less

That’s why there should be a limit on the number of appeals. And having the neighborhood come together to stone a drug dealer who used to operate there- get your puns out now- would be cheaper and more effective.

You can’t undie someone. If they got life in prison you can release them if it turns out they are innocent.

Besides this isn’t the topic
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Diopolis
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Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:20 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:That’s why there should be a limit on the number of appeals. And having the neighborhood come together to stone a drug dealer who used to operate there- get your puns out now- would be cheaper and more effective.

You can’t undie someone. If they got life in prison you can release them if it turns out they are innocent.

I think we probably don't need much further discussion to come to the conclusion that we share a fundamental difference of views on the relative importance of wrongful executions vis a vis the deaths that could be prevented by executing more people.
Besides this isn’t the topic

Fair enough.
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The Emerald Legion
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Founded: Mar 18, 2011
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:28 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
The Two Jerseys wrote:The only reason capital punishment isn't a deterrent is because it isn't applied often enough.

Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less


Only because we don't apply sufficient judicial scrutiny to life in prison.
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UniversalCommons
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby UniversalCommons » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:30 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
UniversalCommons wrote:There is a lot wrong here. What were groups of teens doing on someones lawn at 4:00 a.m. in the morning with guns. Having a group of teens wandering around at 4:00 a.m. is usually a reason for the police to stop by and ask them what they are doing. This starts with poor policing. There would not be people at 4:00 a.m. standing around on their front lawns with guns in my neighborhood.

Congratulations on living in a nice part of town. Now for the rest of us it’s not all peachy

The second statement is about robbery. I don't buy it. People go into houses to rob people. This sounds like an altercation and shooting. Obnoxious behavior where someone starts shooting. The type of altercation where a kid goes on someones lawn and the guy tells him to get off the lawn and they end up in a shootout.

I assume you’ve never been to a major metropolitan area before? Or been to a crime ridden area?

The homeowner says it is a robbery. It does not mean it is a robbery. It needs to be investigated more thoroughly. I am reading the description, some of the teens may not have been on his property when they were shot.

It is under investigation. And according to new information all perps where in his property

They came on his lawn. There was an argument. One of the teens showed the man a gun. He shot them. It is his property. It is his right. However, not all of the bodies were on his property and the reason robbery is questionable. Trespassing, threatening the man yes, but robbery?

I see you’ve never been to an area with high crime before at night

I would believe some teenagers came on my lawn. I told them to get off my lawn. One of them showed me a gun. I felt threatened and shot them in self defense.

Or they attempted to rob him because the area has issues with crime


I sure have when a gun is pulled it usually means someone Is going to be shot. People don't have to pull out a gun to rob you. They can simply ask you for money. This was about violence. Only 28% of robberies are committed with guns. 67.8% of murders occur because of guns. When a gun is pulled in a bad neighborhood someone is likely to be shot, not just robbed.
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Tornado Queendom
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Corporate Police State

Postby Tornado Queendom » Sat Sep 21, 2019 5:35 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:Honestly we need to go back to Early America where you could have whatever you could afford.

Cannon equipped war ships included. There was a time where people came to America to arm themselves before returning to their home nations to fight tyrants.

I agree, there is a DIRE need for freedom at this point. When the land of the free bans JARTS but allows any "idiot" to change their gender to "X", then we live in clown world.
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Kowani
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:50 pm

Tornado Queendom wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:Honestly we need to go back to Early America where you could have whatever you could afford.

Cannon equipped war ships included. There was a time where people came to America to arm themselves before returning to their home nations to fight tyrants.

I agree, there is a DIRE need for freedom at this point. When the land of the free bans JARTS but allows any "idiot" to change their gender to "X", then we live in clown world.

There’s no “allowing people to change their gender.” Gender is mental. Unless you have mind control technology, you do jack shit.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Sat Sep 21, 2019 6:59 pm

Kowani wrote:
Tornado Queendom wrote:I agree, there is a DIRE need for freedom at this point. When the land of the free bans JARTS but allows any "idiot" to change their gender to "X", then we live in clown world.

There’s no “allowing people to change their gender.” Gender is mental. Unless you have mind control technology, you do jack shit.


Gender isn't Mental, it's societal, if it exists at all.
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Jakker
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Jakker » Sat Sep 21, 2019 7:02 pm

Tornado Queendom wrote:I agree, there is a DIRE need for freedom at this point. When the land of the free bans JARTS but allows any "idiot" to change their gender to "X", then we live in clown world.


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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Europa Undivided » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:17 am

Gormwood wrote:
Europa Undivided wrote:This entire mess can be traced back to the parents of those kids.

If parents were to blame for every single thing their children did, we'd have to say Jeffrey Dahmer's parents purposefully raised him to be a cannibalistic serial killer.

That wasn’t what I was saying.
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Postby The Blaatschapen » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:22 am

Diopolis wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Or we could just take the high road and not execute people? Life in prison is a lot worse for a lot of criminals than death. Because at that point you’re forced to live with your decisions until you die of old age.

Besides the death penalty is crazy expensive. Putting criminals in a 8x5x9 concrete box for the rest of their life costs way way less

That’s why there should be a limit on the number of appeals. And having the neighborhood come together to stone a drug dealer who used to operate there- get your puns out now- would be cheaper and more effective.


That neighbourhood knows how to execute a joint action :)

Is that the pun you were looking for? :p
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Sep 22, 2019 5:25 am

Europa Undivided wrote:This entire mess can be traced back to the parents of those kids.


I wouldn't blame the parents so fast. My parents were law abiding, mild mannered people, and I was an out of control maniac as a teen. I was one wrong move away from being like those punks as a kid, and even today, while I'm not getting myself in all kinds of deep shit anymore, I'm still very different than both my parents and disagree with them on a lot of stuff. Sometimes kids are just bad kids. SOmetimes their friends get them to join in certain behavior. You can't always say it's the parents fault, because people aren't perfect reflections of their parents
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UniversalCommons
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Left-Leaning College State

Postby UniversalCommons » Sun Sep 22, 2019 10:38 am

There is more to this than what appeared in the first report. There are two more people being sought and the case isn't closed. The police are seeking more information.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/artic ... 455022.php

The first report was not completely believable.

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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:16 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
We should. Maybe it would spur people to get tough on crime again like we did in the 90s.

Tough On Crime is how overcrowding and the private prison industry got started. Lemme guess, you have stocks.


Crime also dramatically dropped...
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Novus America
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Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Mon Sep 23, 2019 1:19 pm

UniversalCommons wrote:There is more to this than what appeared in the first report. There are two more people being sought and the case isn't closed. The police are seeking more information.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/artic ... 455022.php

The first report was not completely believable.


The homeowner is not one of those being sought. Could be a gang and these three were not all the members.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

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The Two Jerseys
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Posts: 14505
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Father Knows Best State

Postby The Two Jerseys » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:30 pm

Novus America wrote:
UniversalCommons wrote:There is more to this than what appeared in the first report. There are two more people being sought and the case isn't closed. The police are seeking more information.
https://www.sfgate.com/news/crime/artic ... 455022.php

The first report was not completely believable.


The homeowner is not one of those being sought. Could be a gang and these three were not all the members.

I'm betting there was probably a getaway car.
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Kernen
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Kernen » Mon Sep 23, 2019 3:47 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
We should. Maybe it would spur people to get tough on crime again like we did in the 90s.

Tough On Crime is how overcrowding and the private prison industry got started. Lemme guess, you have stocks.

Wait, you *don't* have private prison stocks? Get that government spending-boosted dividend while you can, friendo.
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