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Gun Control 2022 (IV) - Gun Rights, Control, & Government

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

Your thoughts on pistol braces? (See top of OP for information)

Ban modern sporting rifles
114
15%
Pistol braces should be outlawed and current restrictions on SBRs remain in place
86
11%
Pistol braces should be outlawed but current restrictions on SBRs should be removed
30
4%
Pistol braces should be allowed and current restrictions on SBRs should remain
102
13%
Pistol braces should be allowed but current restrictions on SBRs should be removed
454
58%
 
Total votes : 786

User avatar
The Chuck
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Posts: 3393
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Gun Control 2022 (IV) - Gun Rights, Control, & Government

Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:15 pm

Poll information:

I am looking for a new Thread Poll idea. Please share thoughts below.

New Placeholder Needed. Suggestions Welcomed.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Previously, on Gun Control.

Len Hyet wrote:Previously, on Gun Control.

Part I, Part II, Part III

Original Post & Thread by Conservative Morality:


Been gone from NSG recovering from a little accident (nothing major) so I thought I'd return to the forums with a true classic - gun control.

I speak on this issue as an American, and thus I necessarily refer back to the 2nd Amendment here. The 2nd Amendment is culturally important - practically, less so. In an age of effective nonlethal self-defense weapons, 'self-defense' rings somewhat hollow as a justification; in an age of the MIC, 'combat readiness' for the civilian population doubly so; and anyone who thinks that their militia is going to resist the tyranny of the Feds with small arms is loony enough that they probably shouldn't own any guns. One must remember that even in the American Revolutionary War it was not private firearms which provided the majority of the firepower of American forces; such firearm ownership was primarily the province of skirmishers and some irregulars.

I could care less, to be honest, about long guns. We aren't the Wild West. We aren't some wartorn third-world country. Even fully automatic long guns don't concern me too much. Our problems with firearms are overwhelmingly concerned with the tracking of individuals who misuse them, not so much the disarmament of individuals with firearms. We don't live in a country where militias and gangs can resist the force of the State without using the institutions of the State (judicial process, presumption of innocence, civil rights).

Registration and tracking of firearms is all-important, as is licensing for individuals. I'm not sure that there are many circumstances I would support a full ban on a person's right to own firearms, but restricting ownership of certain firearms for certain individuals is probably useful. Acquiring a license to own handguns in particular, I think, is a good idea. Criminal activity is overwhelmingly reliant on concealment of weaponry.

I do think a limitation on different 'classes' of weapons is useful - but the current definitions of 'assault' weapons are asinine and borderline useless. Restrictions on semiautomatic long guns should be based primarily on ease of concealment - 'tactical' attachments, bayonet lugs, that shit doesn't matter. Collapsing stocks and shortened barrels and extended magazine capacity is more important, and even then I don't believe in a complete ban on such things.

Private and government property, naturally, can restrict what comes onto their property. Your rights end where another's begin. If the city doesn't want your glock in the local social services department, leave it at home and quitcher bitchin'.

Silencers is a question I struggle with. Any policy on silencers has to be Federal, not piecemeal state-by-state, but... on one hand, the use of silencers to lessen hearing loss and damage is perfectly legitimate and silencers don't work like Hollywood 'plink plink' kind of bullshit. It turns a roar into a bark. It's not exactly a sneaky-beaky murder weapon. On the other hand, turning a roar into a bark is sometimes enough combined with background ambiance to conceal the firing of a gun in circumstances where a gun should not be fired, which is... problematic.

Open carry is an issue that I think should mostly be regulated by the individual states, with some exceptions. There is no fucking reason you need to open carry a fully automatic weapon in public, full stop. Keep that shit on private property. I'd prefer it if people didn't carry their AR-15 dick replacements into the local department stores with tactical webbing and camo from head to toe either, but I guess that's more a personal preference.

So? Agree? Disagree? Am I just rambling?


Current Poll Requested by: None
Last edited by The Chuck on Mon Jun 20, 2022 7:09 am, edited 20 times in total.
I advocate for violence every single day. I work in the arms industry.
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Silverport Dockyards Ltd.

"Keep your guns... and buy more guns!" - Kitty Werthmann, Austrian Nazi Regime Survivor
Roof Korea, Best Korea. Hippity Hoppity, 내 재산에서 꺼져.
Pro: Liberty/Freedoms of the Individual, Unrestricted firearms ownership
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Chan Island
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Postby Chan Island » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:17 pm

Ah, that fresh thread smell. This one smells somehow like both gunpowder and the paperwork of regulation at the same time. :p
viewtopic.php?f=20&t=513597&p=39401766#p39401766
Conserative Morality wrote:"It's not time yet" is a tactic used by reactionaries in every era. "It's not time for democracy, it's not time for capitalism, it's not time for emancipation." Of course it's not time. It's never time, not on its own. You make it time. If you're under fire in the no-man's land of WW1, you start digging a foxhole even if the ideal time would be when you *aren't* being bombarded, because once you wait for it to be 'time', other situations will need your attention, assuming you survive that long. If the fields aren't furrowed, plow them. If the iron is not hot, make it so. If society is not ready, change it.

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:18 pm

Chan Island wrote:Ah, that fresh thread smell. This one smells somehow like both gunpowder and the paperwork of regulation at the same time. :p


That's the harsh chemical smell of tyranny.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:32 pm

There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.

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Fartsniffage
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Seems fair to take turns, no?

User avatar
The Chuck
Minister
 
Posts: 3393
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:33 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Already saw and replied. If anyone has a suggestion for new material for the gun control thread, just shoot it my way in a DM and I'll give it a once over.
I advocate for violence every single day. I work in the arms industry.
In-Character Advertisement Space:
The Chuck wholly endorses Wolf Armaments, Lauzanexport CDT, and
Silverport Dockyards Ltd.

"Keep your guns... and buy more guns!" - Kitty Werthmann, Austrian Nazi Regime Survivor
Roof Korea, Best Korea. Hippity Hoppity, 내 재산에서 꺼져.
Pro: Liberty/Freedoms of the Individual, Unrestricted firearms ownership
-Slava-
Ukraini

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
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Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:34 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Seems fair to take turns, no?


This happens in literally no serial threads.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42050
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:37 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Seems fair to take turns, no?


This happens in literally no serial threads.


Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.

User avatar
The Chuck
Minister
 
Posts: 3393
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:39 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
This happens in literally no serial threads.


Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.


Or maybe it should be created by anyone who is involved in the firearms control argument/topic? Just another crazy idea. Sometimes folks are just quicker on the draw than others.

As I've said prior, if you want something added, shoot me a TG Fartsniffage :)
I advocate for violence every single day. I work in the arms industry.
In-Character Advertisement Space:
The Chuck wholly endorses Wolf Armaments, Lauzanexport CDT, and
Silverport Dockyards Ltd.

"Keep your guns... and buy more guns!" - Kitty Werthmann, Austrian Nazi Regime Survivor
Roof Korea, Best Korea. Hippity Hoppity, 내 재산에서 꺼져.
Pro: Liberty/Freedoms of the Individual, Unrestricted firearms ownership
-Slava-
Ukraini

User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:39 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
This happens in literally no serial threads.


Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.


Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Fartsniffage
Post Czar
 
Posts: 42050
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:43 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Then maybe we can create a new trend. The right wing threads are all created by right wingers, the left wing threads by left wingers. The British thread is always by British people. Maybe the gun control thread should be by people who support gun control? Crazy idea I know.


Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.


Control of the poll buddy. All I'm asking for is that it's split equally between they two sides of this very contentious debate.

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The Chuck
Minister
 
Posts: 3393
Founded: Apr 18, 2018
Capitalist Paradise

Postby The Chuck » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:45 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.


Control of the poll buddy. All I'm asking for is that it's split equally between they two sides of this very contentious debate.


Would you like me to edit the poll? My TG box is open and receptive if you have any comments Fartsniffage.
I advocate for violence every single day. I work in the arms industry.
In-Character Advertisement Space:
The Chuck wholly endorses Wolf Armaments, Lauzanexport CDT, and
Silverport Dockyards Ltd.

"Keep your guns... and buy more guns!" - Kitty Werthmann, Austrian Nazi Regime Survivor
Roof Korea, Best Korea. Hippity Hoppity, 내 재산에서 꺼져.
Pro: Liberty/Freedoms of the Individual, Unrestricted firearms ownership
-Slava-
Ukraini

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Crockerland
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Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Crockerland » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:46 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Seems fair to take turns, no?

The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.
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Fartsniffage
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Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:47 pm

Crockerland wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Seems fair to take turns, no?

The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


You got that backwards dude. But good try. :)

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Telconi
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Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:50 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Crockerland wrote:The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


You got that backwards dude. But good try. :)


That is how turns work
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Fartsniffage
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Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:52 pm

Telconi wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
You got that backwards dude. But good try. :)


That is how turns work


Lol.

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Hammer Britannia
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Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:55 pm

I mean, Fart, the fact that these threads have pretty much just become a wankfest for pro-gun rights activists (me included) should be telling that the creator of the threads will usually be one of those wankers.

Also, who are you? IM? Why do you care about Polls so much? And why does it matter? These threads haven't had a legitimate poll since the first one.

tl;dr: W h y?




Anyways, gun control bad.
All shall tremble before me

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Fartsniffage
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Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:56 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:I mean, Fart, the fact that these threads have pretty much just become a wankfest for pro-gun rights activists (me included) should be telling that the creator of the threads will usually be one of those wankers.

Also, who are you? IM? Why do you care about Polls so much? And why does it matter? These threads haven't had a legitimate poll since the first one.

tl;dr: W h y?




Anyways, gun control bad.


QED

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:56 pm

Hammer Britannia wrote:I mean, Fart, the fact that these threads have pretty much just become a wankfest for pro-gun rights activists (me included) should be telling that the creator of the threads will usually be one of those wankers.

Also, who are you? IM? Why do you care about Polls so much? And why does it matter? These threads haven't had a legitimate poll since the first one.

tl;dr: W h y?




Anyways, gun control bad.



There we go, problem solved
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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The Blaatschapen
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Anarchy

Postby The Blaatschapen » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:57 pm

Crockerland wrote:
Fartsniffage wrote:
Seems fair to take turns, no?

The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


The Dutch thread has been led by a non-dutch speaker once.

Personally, I have my eyes set on the Christianity thread :twisted:

:p
The Blaatschapen should resign

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Crockerland
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Founded: Oct 15, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Crockerland » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:58 pm

Fartsniffage wrote:
Telconi wrote:
Or, alternatively, you can stop fabricating a problem where there is none.


Control of the poll buddy. All I'm asking for is that it's split equally between they two sides of this very contentious debate.

A debate?! Even a middle-school debate club would be insulted by the comparison.

One side of the "debate" believes in things like "fully-semi-automatic guns", "assault weapons", "massacre machine gun magazines", and "30 caliber clips" that let you "dispense 30 bullets within half a second", one side wants to ban things like "magazines that can hold multiple bullets".

Gun control is a "debate" like Mike Tyson vs Honey Boo Boo is the boxing match of the century!
Last edited by Crockerland on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Free Taiwan, Hong Kong, and Tibet.
Gay not Queer / Why Abortion is Genocide / End Gay Erasure
PROUD SUPPORTER OF:
National Liberalism, Nuclear & Geothermal Power, GMOs, Vaccines, Biodiesel, LGBTIA equality, Universal Healthcare, Universal Basic Income, Constitutional Carry, Emotional Support Twinks, Right to Life


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Hammer Britannia
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Hammer Britannia » Mon Sep 16, 2019 2:58 pm

The Blaatschapen wrote:
Crockerland wrote:The next OP of the transgender thread should be a transphobe Westboro Baptist Church member then, everyone needs a turn.


The Dutch thread has been led by a non-dutch speaker once.

Personally, I have my eyes set on the Christianity thread :twisted:

:p

No me

Honestly, I would prefer a centrist OP for threads like this, but given how polarized issues like this are that's like trying to find a needle in an infinite haystack
Last edited by Hammer Britannia on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
All shall tremble before me

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Grinning Dragon
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Posts: 11111
Founded: May 16, 2011
Anarchy

Postby Grinning Dragon » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:04 pm

The Chuck wrote:
Grinning Dragon wrote:
A) private dealers at a gun show that are selling firearms are a very, small percentage so small that they don't even bother renting booth space. The other issue is if they sell x amount in a given year, they must apply for an FFL.
B) I've never seen such a thing. I've gone to gun shows since I was young going back to the 70's and its always FFLs, the private sellers that are there sell jewelry, ammo, camping gear, books, crafts.
I find it odd that when it comes to firearms, and no other type of arms, we treat this portion of an enumerated right as a privilege, let alone the insane restrictions, hoops and rigamarole that no other right is subjected to.
To me it is govt overreach, and my ideal system of gun control is using both hands. Other than that, I'm against all gun control laws.


*Cough* FTFY

Bah, the other is only at 499, it's still got a bit a flavor left in that chew.

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Aclion
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Posts: 6249
Founded: Apr 12, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Aclion » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:07 pm

The Chuck wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:There is a complaint lodged in Moderation that this OP is against gun control, and that a pro gun control OP should be next.


Already saw and replied. If anyone has a suggestion for new material for the gun control thread, just shoot it my way in a DM and I'll give it a once over.

[the idea of gun control advocates needing progun people to come up with new material for them.] XD
Last edited by Aclion on Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.
A popular Government, without popular information, or the means of acquiring it, is but a Prologue to a Farce or a Tragedy; or, perhaps both. - James Madison.

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Fartsniffage
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Posts: 42050
Founded: Dec 19, 2005
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby Fartsniffage » Mon Sep 16, 2019 3:10 pm

Aclion wrote:
The Chuck wrote:
Already saw and replied. If anyone has a suggestion for new material for the gun control thread, just shoot it my way in a DM and I'll give it a once over.

Lmao at the idea of gun control advocates needing progun people to come up with new material for them. :x


According to Fris I can DM The Chuck and he has to change to poll. Or so I read his response in Moderation.

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