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2019-2020 US Election Megathread III: Biden VS Biden

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Who do you think had the best performance at tonight’s debate?

Bernie
65
62%
Buttigieg
12
11%
Warren
11
10%
Biden
5
5%
Steyer
4
4%
Klobuchar
8
8%
 
Total votes : 105

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Cannot think of a name
Post Czar
 
Posts: 45100
Founded: Antiquity
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Cannot think of a name » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:20 pm

Galloism wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Also snipping because your spurious conclusion flows from here.

Because again, you assign a value to this thing that basically only us consider a right and compare any discussion of its value as 'beyond the pale' and then make a spurious connection to a non-one to one relationship as if they are related. They are not, and a discussion of the efficacy of the right is valid and not beyond the pale. And you conflate restrictions based on it as a dissolution of the right which isn't what O'Rourke suggested unless you view any restriction as an outright ban, which is hyperbolic and belongs in the gun thread with the rest of the masturbatory arguments. O'Rourke proposed an extension of restrictions that are already in place and had in fact been in place before but expired. This hyperbole about rights is just that. And a distortion of the candidate's proposal which is at least related to what this thread is supposed to be about.

Banning cross examination of prosecution witnesses doesn’t completely eliminate due process, but it wounds it really badly.

I'm out. If that's the level we're at, I'm out. Go to the gun thread, they love that shit.
"...I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro's great stumbling block in the stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen's Council-er or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate who is more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" who paternalistically feels he can set the timetable for another man's freedom; who lives by the myth of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait until a "more convenient season." -MLK Jr.

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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:20 pm

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:He wont be the nominee.

That’s actually unfortunate in a way.

I know he walked it back, but he’s the first presidential candidate ever to address in public our widespread practice of male genital mutilation.

He'd be a better president then Trump.

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:21 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:That’s actually unfortunate in a way.

I know he walked it back, but he’s the first presidential candidate ever to address in public our widespread practice of male genital mutilation.

He'd be a better president then Trump.

I know a chimp or two that can meet that criteria.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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San Lumen
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Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:21 pm

Galloism wrote:
San Lumen wrote:He'd be a better president then Trump.

I know a chimp or two that can meet that criteria.

My two dogs would be better leaders.

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Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
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Posts: 517
Founded: Jan 21, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:23 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:As I said in the previous thread, I checked Andrew Yang's campaign site, he sounds like a Conservative Republican Economic Libertarian, not a Democrat Leftist. He could be in the US House or Senate as a Republican on the economy not a Democrat. But I did not check his foreign policy views.

So I posted I like him and I could vote for him as President if he were a Republican, and his foreign policy views were generally ok with me, as long as he was anti my pet issue on NS which I wont mention but we all know what it is. So a fellow nation posted back to me I would not like his foreign policy views, but he does sound like a Conservative Republican Economic Libertarian on the economy, not a leftist Democrat.

He wont be the nominee.

lol, I posted on the previous thread, Andrew Yang has no chance in Heck to be the nominee of the Leftist Democrat Party of America, most of the hard left base wants a Bernie Warren ticket, or a Warren Bernie ticket.
Miami Shores is a Province of Greater La Habana Cuba, and La Habana Cuba is a regional Province of Greater Miami Shores, democratic capitalist Republic.

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San Lumen
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Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:24 pm

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:
San Lumen wrote:He wont be the nominee.

lol, I posted on the previous thread, Andrew Yang has no chance in Heck to be the nominee of the Leftist Democrat Party of America, most of the hard left base wants a Bernie Warren ticket, or a Warren Bernie ticket.

Warren has a better chance of being the nominee than Bernie. He has a hard ceiling he can't seem to break out of .

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Galloism
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:24 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Galloism wrote:Banning cross examination of prosecution witnesses doesn’t completely eliminate due process, but it wounds it really badly.

I'm out. If that's the level we're at, I'm out. Go to the gun thread, they love that shit.

If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Farnhamia
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Posts: 112541
Founded: Jun 20, 2006
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Farnhamia » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:25 pm

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:
San Lumen wrote:He wont be the nominee.

lol, I posted on the previous thread, Andrew Yang has no chance in Heck to be the nominee of the Leftist Democrat Party of America, most of the hard left base wants a Bernie Warren ticket, or a Warren Bernie ticket.

It's the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. You wouldn't like it if people referred to the Republican Party by a snide nickname.
Make Earth Great Again: Stop Continental Drift!
And Jesus was a sailor when he walked upon the water ...
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Now the foot is on the other hand ~ Kannap
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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:26 pm

Galloism wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:I'm out. If that's the level we're at, I'm out. Go to the gun thread, they love that shit.

If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.

when the second amedment was created we had muskets not ak-47s. and well regulated militias no longer exist. They became the National Guard. The amendment is seriously outdated.

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Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
Diplomat
 
Posts: 517
Founded: Jan 21, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:26 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:lol, I posted on the previous thread, Andrew Yang has no chance in Heck to be the nominee of the Leftist Democrat Party of America, most of the hard left base wants a Bernie Warren ticket, or a Warren Bernie ticket.

Warren has a better chance of being the nominee than Bernie. He has a hard ceiling he can't seem to break out of .

I agree with you Warren has a better chance of being the nominee, who all do you think she might choose as her Vice?

The natural choice would be Bernie Sanders, they are close personal friends, respect each other very much, and share many similar political views.
Miami Shores is a Province of Greater La Habana Cuba, and La Habana Cuba is a regional Province of Greater Miami Shores, democratic capitalist Republic.

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:26 pm

Galloism wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:I'm out. If that's the level we're at, I'm out. Go to the gun thread, they love that shit.

If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.


The park island was a nightmare before that.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Gormwood
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14727
Founded: Mar 25, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Gormwood » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:28 pm

Galloism wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:I'm out. If that's the level we're at, I'm out. Go to the gun thread, they love that shit.

If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.

Only in America are guns considered human rights, as if they are an innate part of the human anatomy and zeitgeist rather than something that took centuries to be invented and refined.

Christ.
Bloodthirsty savages who call for violence against the Right while simultaneously being unarmed defenseless sissies who will get slaughtered by the gun-toting Right in a civil war.
Breath So Bad, It Actually Drives People Mad

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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:28 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.

when the second amedment was created we had muskets not ak-47s. and well regulated militias no longer exist. They became the National Guard. The amendment is seriously outdated.


The first half is entirely rediculous to even pretend is a point.

The second is patently false.
Last edited by Telconi on Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
Diplomat
 
Posts: 517
Founded: Jan 21, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:29 pm

Farnhamia wrote:
Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:lol, I posted on the previous thread, Andrew Yang has no chance in Heck to be the nominee of the Leftist Democrat Party of America, most of the hard left base wants a Bernie Warren ticket, or a Warren Bernie ticket.

It's the Democratic Party, not the Democrat Party. You wouldn't like it if people referred to the Republican Party by a snide nickname.

Ok Farnhamia, I wont use that term again, I did not mean anything bad by it, but I understand, sorry, the reason I used it is the Democrats as in the Democrat Party, the Leftist Part is my political viewpoint.
Last edited by Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba on Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Miami Shores is a Province of Greater La Habana Cuba, and La Habana Cuba is a regional Province of Greater Miami Shores, democratic capitalist Republic.

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Bombadil
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Posts: 18711
Founded: Oct 13, 2011
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Bombadil » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:29 pm

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Warren has a better chance of being the nominee than Bernie. He has a hard ceiling he can't seem to break out of .

I agree with you Warren has a better chance of being the nominee, who all do you think she might choose as her Vice?

The natural choice would be Bernie Sanders, they are close personal friends, respect each other very much, and share many similar political views.


She'd need to go with someone younger, and I wonder if she might go for an all-female ticket.
Eldest, that's what I am...Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn...he knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless — before the Dark Lord came from Outside..

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Telconi
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Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:30 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Galloism wrote:If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.

Only in America are guns considered human rights, as if they are an innate part of the human anatomy and zeitgeist rather than something that took centuries to be invented and refined.

Christ.


Meanwhile marriage certificates, juries, ballot boxes, newspapers, search warrants, and synagogues are part of human anatomy?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:32 pm

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:
San Lumen wrote:Warren has a better chance of being the nominee than Bernie. He has a hard ceiling he can't seem to break out of .

I agree with you Warren has a better chance of being the nominee, who all do you think she might choose as her Vice?

The natural choice would be Bernie Sanders, they are close personal friends, respect each other very much, and share many similar political views.

Bernie is too old to be VP. Beto might be a good choice. Governor John Bel Edwards of Louisiana if he's reelected this year but he might not be a good choice since his replacement would be a Republican.

Outgoing Governor Steve Bullock of Montana or perhaps Jared Polis of Colorado.

Senator Amy Klobuchar would be a good choice as well.

Pete Buttigieg would be the ideal choice in my view.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba
Diplomat
 
Posts: 517
Founded: Jan 21, 2018
Compulsory Consumerist State

Postby Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:32 pm

Bombadil wrote:
Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:I agree with you Warren has a better chance of being the nominee, who all do you think she might choose as her Vice?

The natural choice would be Bernie Sanders, they are close personal friends, respect each other very much, and share many similar political views.


She'd need to go with someone younger, and I wonder if she might go for an all-female ticket.

Yes, I considered this possibility too.
Miami Shores is a Province of Greater La Habana Cuba, and La Habana Cuba is a regional Province of Greater Miami Shores, democratic capitalist Republic.

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:33 pm

San Lumen wrote:
Galloism wrote:If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.

when the second amedment was created we had muskets not ak-47s. and well regulated militias no longer exist. They became the National Guard. The amendment is seriously outdated.

Notably, dueling pistols were already a thing in 1781. The six shooter was invented about 50 years later.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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San Lumen
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 87246
Founded: Jul 02, 2009
Liberal Democratic Socialists

Postby San Lumen » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:35 pm

Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba wrote:
Bombadil wrote:
She'd need to go with someone younger, and I wonder if she might go for an all-female ticket.

Yes, I considered this possibility too.

I agree with someone younger but a all female ticket im not sure about. I think the party would want geographic balance which is why i think Mayor Pete would be an ideal choice.
Last edited by San Lumen on Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:37 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:35 pm

Gormwood wrote:
Galloism wrote:If they stop trying to ban substantial portions of my civil rights, I’ll stop pointing it out.

To Obama’s credit, I appreciated him signing that law that allows carriage in national parks. That law never made sense - there’s bears.

Only in America are guns considered human rights, as if they are an innate part of the human anatomy and zeitgeist rather than something that took centuries to be invented and refined.

Christ.

Well, I wouldn’t say guns exactly - but arms. When phasers are invented, they will be covered under the 2nd amendment, in the same way speech on the Internet is covered by the first.

Arms have existed basically as long as humans have. Rocks became knives became swords became bows and the crossbows and then guns and eventually ray guns most likely.

Arms go back to the beginning of what we understand to be human, and probably before.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


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Kowani
Post Czar
 
Posts: 44956
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:38 pm

Galloism wrote:Arms go back to the beginning of what we understand to be human, and probably before.

So does rape.
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Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:38 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:Arms go back to the beginning of what we understand to be human, and probably before.

So does rape.


One of these things is not like the other.
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

User avatar
Galloism
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 73175
Founded: Aug 20, 2005
Father Knows Best State

Postby Galloism » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:42 pm

Kowani wrote:
Galloism wrote:Arms go back to the beginning of what we understand to be human, and probably before.

So does rape.

Also true, as does murder, breathing, eating plants, and arguing about how things should be handled.

But in point of fact, the objection that guns are, historical terms, modern, so aren’t rights doesn’t make any sense. Arms go back as far as humans.
Venicilian: wow. Jesus hung around with everyone. boys, girls, rich, poor(mostly), sick, healthy, etc. in fact, i bet he even went up to gay people and tried to heal them so they would be straight.
The Parkus Empire: Being serious on NSG is like wearing a suit to a nude beach.
New Kereptica: Since power is changed energy over time, an increase in power would mean, in this case, an increase in energy. As energy is equivalent to mass and the density of the government is static, the volume of the government must increase.


User avatar
Telconi
Post Czar
 
Posts: 34903
Founded: Oct 08, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Telconi » Sun Sep 15, 2019 9:45 pm

Galloism wrote:
Kowani wrote:So does rape.

Also true, as does murder, breathing, eating plants, and arguing about how things should be handled.

But in point of fact, the objection that guns are, historical terms, modern, so aren’t rights doesn’t make any sense. Arms go back as far as humans.


The whole "When the constitution was written" thing is the worst brand of that TBH.

I mean, what? You really want people to shoot up a school with a fucking carronade?
-2.25 LEFT
-3.23 LIBERTARIAN

PRO:
-Weapons Rights
-Gender Equality
-LGBTQ Rights
-Racial Equality
-Religious Freedom
-Freedom of Speech
-Freedom of Association
-Life
-Limited Government
-Non Interventionism
-Labor Unions
-Environmental Protections
ANTI:
-Racism
-Sexism
-Bigotry In All Forms
-Government Overreach
-Government Surveillance
-Freedom For Security Social Transactions
-Unnecessary Taxes
-Excessively Specific Government Programs
-Foreign Entanglements
-Religious Extremism
-Fascists Masquerading as "Social Justice Warriors"

"The Constitution is NOT an instrument for the government to restrain the people,it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government-- lest it come to dominate our lives and interests." ~ Patrick Henry

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