[Abortion Thread] (YET ANOTHER POLL!) Taking measure.

[Galloism]

Notably Kat:



Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Killing fetuses is murder.
Killing children is fine, when God does it.

Hypocrisy abounds.

Just that words have definitions Kat. Isn’t it important to use words according to their actual definitions instead of ones you make up for yourself?

You keep using murder, but it’s specifically legally not murder.

[Katganistan]

It's funny you assume I'm an atheist.

I don't know what else you could possibly be given how much you hate religion.

I don't hate religion.
I hate hypocrisy and standing up and saying it's ok to force women to bear kids they don't want and might endanger them because God said so.

Which he never did.

And again, I am NOT the topic of this thread.

[The Free Joy State]

It's funny you assume I'm an atheist.

I don't know what else you could possibly be given how much you hate religion.

Not a mod, but this is the Abortion Megathread, not the Katganistan Megathread.

EDIT: Ninja'd by Kat.

[Kowani]

Killing fetuses is murder.
Killing children is fine, when God does it.

Hypocrisy abounds.

It's not killing. Life is sustained only by God's continual presence, so God merely withdraws his presence. Life belongs to God, not to people or animals. We are but dust given life by God.

Scientifically false.

It's funny you assume I'm an atheist.

I don't know what else you could possibly be given how much you hate religion.

Misotheism is a thing.

[Luminesa]

No, and you’re just responding from emotion. Go to the Christian thread, like you said. You don’t want to talk about Christianity since you clearly seem to know it well enough to screech about how God is a murderer.

I'm not responding from emotion. It's this thing called logic. And feel free to go to the Christian thread yourself, since it appears your reason to be here is to make me the topic.

Nobody ever said you were the topic, certainly not me. The topic was apparently something you wanted to move from, but then not because...someone was wrong about God? I dunno. Logic also requires not speaking in pure, utter rage to every post someone makes that you don’t like or agree with. And I already hang in CDT often.

[United Muscovite Nations]

No, and you’re just responding from emotion. Go to the Christian thread, like you said. You don’t want to talk about Christianity since you clearly seem to know it well enough to screech about how God is a murderer.

I mean, he also genocided most of the human race and other animal life, burned down 2 cities killing the majority of their population, kill all the non-Jewish firstborns of Egypt, let Satan run loose and kill Job's entire family, etc...

Yeah, no, that sounds like murder to me.

It's not illegal, so by definition, it can't be murder.

[Grenartia]

Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Well, hold on here.

I very much doubt the Hebrew God was given any exemption under ancient Egyptian law, even if said law recognized His/Her/Their existence.

As for presently, American law is essentially agnostic on the subject of God's existence (flowery flavor text from various political figures in our history and present notwithstanding). But even, for the sake of argument, if it did acknowledge the existence of God, nowhere in any law that I'm aware of, is God exempted from the laws of the United States, in areas under its jurisdiction.

I.E., if God physically manifested in the middle of downtown LA, DC, NYC, NOLA, or any other major city, and started killing every person in that area under the age of 18, in an obvious way (say, lightning bolts projected from His/Her/Their eyeballs or some goofy-ass shit like that), with clear evidence of it (video, eyewitness, the works); there is no law that says God is immune from arrest, prosecution, trial, and conviction for those crimes.

[New haven america]

I mean, he also genocided most of the human race and other animal life, burned down 2 cities killing the majority of their population, kill all the non-Jewish firstborns of Egypt, let Satan run loose and kill Job's entire family, etc...

Yeah, no, that sounds like murder to me.

It's not illegal, so by definition, it can't be murder.

There are a lot of places where killing other humans is legal, yet for some reason you consider that murder.

Hm...

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's not killing. Life is sustained only by God's continual presence, so God merely withdraws his presence. Life belongs to God, not to people or animals. We are but dust given life by God.

Scientifically false.

It's important, when analyzing the morality of what you believe to be fictional characters, do you not suppose that the fictional characters are real for the sake of argument?

[Telconi]

No, and you’re just responding from emotion. Go to the Christian thread, like you said. You don’t want to talk about Christianity since you clearly seem to know it well enough to screech about how God is a murderer.

I mean, he also genocided most of the human race and other animal life, burned down 2 cities killing the majority of their population, kill all the non-Jewish firstborns of Egypt, let Satan run loose and kill Job's entire family, etc...

Yeah, no, that sounds like murder to me.

I mean, we can't really have it both ways. Either A) We use the word murder to refer to the distinct legal concept. or B) We use the word murder to refer to killing people we don't like.

if A) God has never murdered

[United Muscovite Nations]

It's not illegal, so by definition, it can't be murder.

There are a lot of places where killing other humans is legal, yet for some reason you consider that murder.

Hm...

It may be illegal for a human to kill a human, but there's nothing in the law about God killing a human.

[Luminesa]

I don't know what else you could possibly be given how much you hate religion.

I don't hate religion.
I hate hypocrisy and standing up and saying it's ok to force women to bear kids they don't want and might endanger them because God said so.

Which he never did.

And again, I am NOT the topic of this thread.

Nobody said you were the topic. Abortion is the topic, but you moved from it to talk about how God is a murderer, then when you wanted to move from the topic you went right back to it. We’re pointing out your own inconsistencies in moderating/participating in the thread in which you help to moderate. If we’re done with this topic then we’re done. It would not be any different if someone else said the same things you did.

[Luminesa]

It's not killing. Life is sustained only by God's continual presence, so God merely withdraws his presence. Life belongs to God, not to people or animals. We are but dust given life by God.

Scientifically false.

I don't know what else you could possibly be given how much you hate religion.

Misotheism is a thing.

...You made me hungry for miso soup. Darn you.

[New haven america]

So every firstborn infant in Egypt was evil? Seriously? He murdered every infant, caused all their families grief, because of one man?

Yeah, that's definitely moral.

And I noticed you simply said "that's not why he drowned the world" when I gave no explanation, nor did you give a reason.

Again, do not tell us about God's morality and how he loves all the little children when clearly there are multiple examples where murdering children are A-Ok.

Notably Kat:

Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Murder is unlawful killing.
Legal things are lawful.
Abortion is legal.
Abortion is not murder.

Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Except it probably was in ancient Egypt, because God was #NotTheirGod.

Now if Ra or Anubis did it, then your argument might have a foundation to stand on, but those weren't the ones who killed every firstborn in Egypt, were they?

[Telconi]

Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Well, hold on here.

I very much doubt the Hebrew God was given any exemption under ancient Egyptian law, even if said law recognized His/Her/Their existence.

As for presently, American law is essentially agnostic on the subject of God's existence (flowery flavor text from various political figures in our history and present notwithstanding). But even, for the sake of argument, if it did acknowledge the existence of God, nowhere in any law that I'm aware of, is God exempted from the laws of the United States, in areas under its jurisdiction.

I.E., if God physically manifested in the middle of downtown LA, DC, NYC, NOLA, or any other major city, and started killing every person in that area under the age of 18, in an obvious way (say, lightning bolts projected from His/Her/Their eyeballs or some goofy-ass shit like that), with clear evidence of it (video, eyewitness, the works); there is no law that says God is immune from arrest, prosecution, trial, and conviction for those crimes.

At least in California murder is explicitly an act committed by a person. As God is not such, the law wouldn't apply.

[United Muscovite Nations]

Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Well, hold on here.

I very much doubt the Hebrew God was given any exemption under ancient Egyptian law, even if said law recognized His/Her/Their existence.

As for presently, American law is essentially agnostic on the subject of God's existence (flowery flavor text from various political figures in our history and present notwithstanding). But even, for the sake of argument, if it did acknowledge the existence of God, nowhere in any law that I'm aware of, is God exempted from the laws of the United States, in areas under its jurisdiction.

I.E., if God physically manifested in the middle of downtown LA, DC, NYC, NOLA, or any other major city, and started killing every person in that area under the age of 18, in an obvious way (say, lightning bolts projected from His/Her/Their eyeballs or some goofy-ass shit like that), with clear evidence of it (video, eyewitness, the works); there is no law that says God is immune from arrest, prosecution, trial, and conviction for those crimes.

There is no court that has jurisdiction to try God, nor would it have the ability. Moreover, God is not a person.

[Galloism]

Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Well, hold on here.

I very much doubt the Hebrew God was given any exemption under ancient Egyptian law, even if said law recognized His/Her/Their existence.

As for presently, American law is essentially agnostic on the subject of God's existence (flowery flavor text from various political figures in our history and present notwithstanding). But even, for the sake of argument, if it did acknowledge the existence of God, nowhere in any law that I'm aware of, is God exempted from the laws of the United States, in areas under its jurisdiction.

I.E., if God physically manifested in the middle of downtown LA, DC, NYC, NOLA, or any other major city, and started killing every person in that area under the age of 18, in an obvious way (say, lightning bolts projected from His/Her/Their eyeballs or some goofy-ass shit like that), with clear evidence of it (video, eyewitness, the works); there is no law that says God is immune from arrest, prosecution, trial, and conviction for those crimes.

However, acts of god generally exempt anyone from legal liability, and are specifically classified as acts for which no person can be held responsible.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Act_of_God

God likely wouldn’t be classified as a person under English common law, not being human, and only persons can commit murder.

The general definition of murder is:

The unlawful killing of another human being without justification or excuse.

Although exact verbiage can vary by jurisdiction. As God is not a human being, he can’t kill another human being without justification or excuse - only a human being.

[Luminesa]

Notably Kat:



Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Except it probably was in ancient Egypt, because God was #NotTheirGod.

Now if Ra or Anubis did it, then your argument might have a foundation to stand on, but those weren't the ones who killed every firstborn in Egypt, were they?

I mean they considered the Pharaoh to be the physical manifestation of Ra, or a descendant of Ra (I forget which, to be honest), so technically it could be considered murder if the Pharaoh was to kill someone...and he probably did kill a lot of people via slavery and/or POWs.

[Galloism]

Notably Kat:



Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Except it probably was in ancient Egypt, because God was #NotTheirGod.

Now if Ra or Anubis did it, then your argument might have a foundation to stand on, but those weren't the ones who killed every firstborn in Egypt, were they?

I have serious doubts they had laws to prosecute foreign gods.

[Kowani]

Scientifically false.

It's important, when analyzing the morality of what you believe to be fictional characters, do you not suppose that the fictional characters are real for the sake of argument?

I mean, no? Like, last year, for AP English, I had to write a paper on the Great Gatsby (shitty book, by the way.) Never stopped to consider Jay real or not. He was just a fictional asshole.

But regardless, when talking to how your god interacts with physical reality, it’s kind of important to take reality into account.

Scientifically false.


Misotheism is a thing.

...You made me hungry for miso soup. Darn you.

Miso soup is good.

[The Alma Mater]

Well, hold on here.

I very much doubt the Hebrew God was given any exemption under ancient Egyptian law, even if said law recognized His/Her/Their existence.

As for presently, American law is essentially agnostic on the subject of God's existence (flowery flavor text from various political figures in our history and present notwithstanding). But even, for the sake of argument, if it did acknowledge the existence of God, nowhere in any law that I'm aware of, is God exempted from the laws of the United States, in areas under its jurisdiction.

I.E., if God physically manifested in the middle of downtown LA, DC, NYC, NOLA, or any other major city, and started killing every person in that area under the age of 18, in an obvious way (say, lightning bolts projected from His/Her/Their eyeballs or some goofy-ass shit like that), with clear evidence of it (video, eyewitness, the works); there is no law that says God is immune from arrest, prosecution, trial, and conviction for those crimes.

There is no court that has jurisdiction to try God, nor would it have the ability. Moreover, God is not a person.

Don't be silly, every court has the jurisdisction. God however is so powerful that he can ignore whatever it says.

Then again, last time he was tried and sentenced to death by a human court he accepted the punishment.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

It's not killing. Life is sustained only by God's continual presence, so God merely withdraws his presence. Life belongs to God, not to people or animals. We are but dust given life by God.

Scientifically false.

I don't know what else you could possibly be given how much you hate religion.

Misotheism is a thing.

Misotheism is just self-destructive antitheism.

Notably, acts of God are not considered murder under law presently, and likely weren’t in ancient Egypt either. Words have meanings, and not just the ones you make up for yourself.

Well, hold on here.

I very much doubt the Hebrew God was given any exemption under ancient Egyptian law, even if said law recognized His/Her/Their existence.

As for presently, American law is essentially agnostic on the subject of God's existence (flowery flavor text from various political figures in our history and present notwithstanding). But even, for the sake of argument, if it did acknowledge the existence of God, nowhere in any law that I'm aware of, is God exempted from the laws of the United States, in areas under its jurisdiction.

I.E., if God physically manifested in the middle of downtown LA, DC, NYC, NOLA, or any other major city, and started killing every person in that area under the age of 18, in an obvious way (say, lightning bolts projected from His/Her/Their eyeballs or some goofy-ass shit like that), with clear evidence of it (video, eyewitness, the works); there is no law that says God is immune from arrest, prosecution, trial, and conviction for those crimes.

Laws don't account for deities. Imagine trying to arrest, prosecute, try, and convict a hurricane or other natural disaster; it just doesn't work.

[Luminesa]

Except it probably was in ancient Egypt, because God was #NotTheirGod.

Now if Ra or Anubis did it, then your argument might have a foundation to stand on, but those weren't the ones who killed every firstborn in Egypt, were they?

I have serious doubts they had laws to prosecute foreign gods.

Or their own. I dunno if the Egyptian gods received judgment from anyone, did they?

[New haven america]

Except it probably was in ancient Egypt, because God was #NotTheirGod.

Now if Ra or Anubis did it, then your argument might have a foundation to stand on, but those weren't the ones who killed every firstborn in Egypt, were they?

I have serious doubts they had laws to prosecute foreign gods.

Considering most civilizations had laws persecuting the worshippers of foreign gods (And still do in a lot of areas), I doubt persecuting a foreign god itself wouldn't be possible.

[Katganistan]

Killing fetuses is murder.
Killing children is fine, when God does it.

Hypocrisy abounds.

Just that words have definitions Kat. Isn’t it important to use words according to their actual definitions instead of ones you make up for yourself?

You keep using murder, but it’s specifically legally not murder.

Neither is abortion, but apparently you haven't caught on that that was the point I'm making.