Gun Control III - the Gunnening

[New haven america]

1. Yes, as by conservative estimates there's been ~340 mass shootings in the US. For comparison, the 2nd highest developed countries with mass shootings are generally Germany or France, and usually have <10 per year on a bad year.
2. That info's about your chance of being in a mass shooting , but generally, the chance of dying in a mass shooting in the US is 1 in 11000. Now while that does seem low, the US has a population of 325 million, which means that more people have a chance of dying in a mass shootings. (I'd personally prefer that number to be 1 in 200+ million)

You can downplay mass shootings all you want, that's fine, it's exactly what congressional Republicans did when 28 children died, so you wouldn't be the first, nor will you be the last.

1. 340 mass shootings compared to the number of gun owners not committing mass shootings? Seems rather low, don’t you think?
2. Could I get a source on that?

3. Oh don’t you even try to play that bullshit. How about you save the crocodile tears, pull your fingers out of your ears, 4. and pay attention to the fact that we have proposed ideas towards reducing gun violence without gun control in this very thread? 5. Or are you interested in saving lives only when it gives you a chance to rail against something?

1. Nope, that's 340 too many.
2. When you provide a course on how 340 mass shootings in a developed country isn't a problem, then I'll consider it.
3. Oh, hit a nerve with that one, I'm simply pointing out an unbiased fact. You downplaying the number, frequency, and causes of mass shootings is not unlike the smoke and mirrors work NRA supported politicians (The vast, vast majority of which are Republicans) have been doing for the past 20 years, and they admitted that their fine with elementary school children dying as long as people get to keep unrestricted access to pew pew machines.
4. Not possible, especially in a country were there are more guns than actual people.
5. If that's what you want to believe that I'm doing, that's cool, I don't care. Everyone's allowed to think as they wish.

[The Chuck]

Have you ever been at work when a robbery is going down and the perpetrator is waving an Illegal firearm around? I hope you haven't because I sure as shit have been and I am thankful that we have firearms at my restaurant for that exact purpose.

That’s great that you were able to defend yourself. But we’re gonna need proof that most crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.

As for the robbery part, that is one of the most committed crimes

It’s number 5. Assault is number 4. But non-RTC states win on that front. And with the other 3 most common crimes (burglary, larceny, and car theft), non-RTC states only lose on car theft.

and so I fully stand firm in wanting business owners and citizens to be able to own firearms to defend against them. Especially armed robberies which absolutely fucking suck. At least I still got lunch after that attempted robbery.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

Page 7, 43% obtained it illegally through middlemen/black market. Biggest section of how criminals obtained firearms is illegally because it's easiest for them to obtain it that way.

Actually, in countries that have outlawed or placed heavy restrictions on guns, an armed robbery with a fire are is pretty unlikely to happen, as the cost of actually getting even a standard or run of the mill pistol is so high that the average robber couldn't afford one to begin with.

A good friend of mine who is ATF has informed me they have picked up multiple semi truck loads of grenades and full auto Soviet hardware in Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina on the last decade.

Those are 100% illegal to own in the US by anybody. But we have semi loads of them.

I mean Gallo, with you being law enforcement, does that really surprise you?

[New haven america]

Actually, in countries that have outlawed or placed heavy restrictions on guns, an armed robbery with a fire are is pretty unlikely to happen, as the cost of actually getting even a standard or run of the mill pistol is so high that the average robber couldn't afford one to begin with.

1. A good friend of mine who is ATF has informed me they have picked up multiple semi truck loads of grenades and full auto Soviet hardware in Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina on the last decade.

2. Those are 100% illegal to own in the US by anybody. But we have semi loads of them.

1. Yes, in the US (And in the weapon loving South no less), a country with very few restrictions (Compared to every other developed nation) on weapons.
2. If you're rich they're not hard to get a hold of, which the average bank or store robber is not.

What were you trying to prove with your example?

[Ors Might]

1. 340 mass shootings compared to the number of gun owners not committing mass shootings? Seems rather low, don’t you think?
2. Could I get a source on that?

3. Oh don’t you even try to play that bullshit. How about you save the crocodile tears, pull your fingers out of your ears, 4. and pay attention to the fact that we have proposed ideas towards reducing gun violence without gun control in this very thread? 5. Or are you interested in saving lives only when it gives you a chance to rail against something?

1. Nope, that's 340 too many.
2. When you provide a course on how 340 mass shootings in a developed country isn't a problem, then I'll consider it.
3. Oh, hit a nerve with that one, I'm simply pointing out an unbiased fact. You downplaying the number, frequency, and causes of mass shootings is not unlike the smoke and mirrors work NRA supported politicians (The vast, vast majority of which are Republicans) have been doing for the past 20 years, and they admitted that their fine with elementary school children dying as long as people get to keep unrestricted access to pew pew machines.
4. Not possible, especially in a country were there are more guns than actual people.
5. If that's what you want to believe that I'm doing, that's cool, I don't care. Everyone's allowed to think as they wish.

1. Yes and X amount of stabbings are X too many. Does that make it rational to go about your life fearing them?
2. Cute.
3. No, you’re standing on the dead and declaring that anyone that doesn’t support the exact same solutions as you doesn’t care about solving the problem.
4. Are you of the belief that the only possible way to lower gun violence is through gun control? Nothing else can impact those numbers? Wouldn’t the immense amount of guns already in circulation hinder whatever effectiveness gun control could provide?

[Kowani]

That’s great that you were able to defend yourself. But we’re gonna need proof that most crimes are committed with illegally obtained firearms.
It’s number 5. Assault is number 4. But non-RTC states win on that front. And with the other 3 most common crimes (burglary, larceny, and car theft), non-RTC states only lose on car theft.

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

Page 7, 43% obtained it illegally through middlemen/black market. Biggest section of how criminals obtained firearms is illegally because it's easiest for them to obtain it that way.

In what world is 43% the biggest section? There’s still 57% who didn’t get it illegally.

[The Chuck]

https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

Page 7, 43% obtained it illegally through middlemen/black market. Biggest section of how criminals obtained firearms is illegally because it's easiest for them to obtain it that way.

In what world is 43% the biggest section? There’s still 57% who didn’t get it illegally.

Erm not quite Kowani. 43% was through black markets and off the streets. However it was actually much higher when accounting for theft of firearms and other methods (swiping them from a crime scene/etc.) check the full chart since you wanted me to check the charts. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

[Grinning Dragon]

Where in the hell is this 340 number coming from?
I'm calling bullshit on that being that high for 2019.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Just because it's "obtained from individual" does not mean it was done legally, under 18 USC a great deal of such purchases can and are done illegally.

[Kowani]

In what world is 43% the biggest section? There’s still 57% who didn’t get it illegally.

Erm not quite Kowani. 43% was through black markets and off the streets. However it was actually much higher when accounting for theft of firearms and other methods (swiping them from a crime scene/etc.) check the full chart since you wanted me to check the charts. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

(from your source)
Except when you take into account how few criminals possessed a gun, much less used one, that 43% is less impressive.

And the stealing from the scene of a crime is an argument against an armed populace, not for.

[The Chuck]

Erm not quite Kowani. 43% was through black markets and off the streets. However it was actually much higher when accounting for theft of firearms and other methods (swiping them from a crime scene/etc.) check the full chart since you wanted me to check the charts. https://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/suficspi16.pdf

(from your source)
Except when you take into account how few criminals possessed a gun, much less used one, that 43% is less impressive.

And the stealing from the scene of a crime is an argument against an armed populace, not for.

If I added up the numbers, illegally obtained firearms comes out to 69.5% that we know of. Accounting for illegal transfers from "friends" and you're looking at a higher statistic brother. Still I stand firm. Anyways, I need to finish my work so if you don't mind... *Pokes power socket at Kowani and makes a cup of coffee before fucking off for the evening*

[New haven america]

1. Nope, that's 340 too many.
2. When you provide a course on how 340 mass shootings in a developed country isn't a problem, then I'll consider it.
3. Oh, hit a nerve with that one, I'm simply pointing out an unbiased fact. You downplaying the number, frequency, and causes of mass shootings is not unlike the smoke and mirrors work NRA supported politicians (The vast, vast majority of which are Republicans) have been doing for the past 20 years, and they admitted that their fine with elementary school children dying as long as people get to keep unrestricted access to pew pew machines.
4. Not possible, especially in a country were there are more guns than actual people.
5. If that's what you want to believe that I'm doing, that's cool, I don't care. Everyone's allowed to think as they wish.

1. Yes and X amount of stabbings are X too many. Does that make it rational to go about your life fearing them?
2. Cute.
3. No, you’re standing on the dead and declaring that anyone that doesn’t support the exact same solutions as you doesn’t care about solving the problem.
4. Are you of the belief that the only possible way to lower gun violence is through gun control? Nothing else can impact those numbers? Wouldn’t the immense amount of guns already in circulation hinder whatever effectiveness gun control could provide?

1. In areas and countries with high knife attack rates, a fear of knives is actually not uncommon. And yes, humans naturally fear things that can easily harm and kill them, that's shockingly what weapons are made to do, so not wanting to be around a device specifically made for killing is perfectly rational.
2. Thank you. :3
3. What are my solutions exactly? Because I've never posted them in this thread (Or on NS really, hm...).
4. I'm gonna put a pin in this one and refrain from answering until you explain to me what my solutions to gun violence are, I'm quite interested in hearing what I think should be done.

[Galloism]

1. A good friend of mine who is ATF has informed me they have picked up multiple semi truck loads of grenades and full auto Soviet hardware in Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina on the last decade.

2. Those are 100% illegal to own in the US by anybody. But we have semi loads of them.

1. Yes, in the US (And in the weapon loving South no less), a country with very few restrictions (Compared to every other developed nation) on weapons.
2. If you're rich they're not hard to get a hold of, which the average bank or store robber is not.

What were you trying to prove with your example?

You don’t really have to be rich unless you want a legal one manufactured or imported before 1986.

If you want an illegal one, it’ll only cost you a few thousand bucks.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... fb35387442

[Telconi]

Actually, in countries that have outlawed or placed heavy restrictions on guns, an armed robbery with a fire are is pretty unlikely to happen, as the cost of actually getting even a standard or run of the mill pistol is so high that the average robber couldn't afford one to begin with.

A good friend of mine who is ATF has informed me they have picked up multiple semi truck loads of grenades and full auto Soviet hardware in Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina on the last decade.

Those are 100% illegal to own in the US by anybody. But we have semi loads of them.

There was, or maybe still is, literally a Chinese restaurant that was selling hot off the presses Chinese AKs out of the back room. In the little town I live in, I imagine that shit is much easier to come by in LA.

[New haven america]

1. Yes, in the US (And in the weapon loving South no less), a country with very few restrictions (Compared to every other developed nation) on weapons.
2. If you're rich they're not hard to get a hold of, which the average bank or store robber is not.

What were you trying to prove with your example?

1. You don’t really have to be rich unless you want a legal one manufactured or imported before 1986.

2. If you want an illegal one, it’ll only cost you a few thousand bucks.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... fb35387442

1. In the US, a country with few weapon restrictions compared to the other developed nations.
2. Which again, the average robber isn't rich enough to afford. 3rd time I've explained this.

[Galloism]

Where in the hell is this 340 number coming from?

I believe the number of shootings where four or more people are injured. A good number of those are gang crimes and drug deals gone wrong.

[Washington Resistance Army]

Actually, in countries that have outlawed or placed heavy restrictions on guns, an armed robbery with a fire are is pretty unlikely to happen, as the cost of actually getting even a standard or run of the mill pistol is so high that the average robber couldn't afford one to begin with.

A good friend of mine who is ATF has informed me they have picked up multiple semi truck loads of grenades and full auto Soviet hardware in Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina on the last decade.

Those are 100% illegal to own in the US by anybody. But we have semi loads of them.

Grenades are legal under the NFA fyi. Not many people bother with it because each one is treated as an individual destructive device and thus requires a $200 stamp and wait time.

[Ors Might]

1. Yes and X amount of stabbings are X too many. Does that make it rational to go about your life fearing them?
2. Cute.
3. No, you’re standing on the dead and declaring that anyone that doesn’t support the exact same solutions as you doesn’t care about solving the problem.
4. Are you of the belief that the only possible way to lower gun violence is through gun control? Nothing else can impact those numbers? Wouldn’t the immense amount of guns already in circulation hinder whatever effectiveness gun control could provide?

1. In areas and countries with high knife attack rates, a fear of knives is actually not uncommon. And yes, humans naturally fear things that can easily harm and kill them, that's shockingly what weapons are made to do, so not wanting to be around a device specifically made for killing is perfectly rational.
2. Thank you. :3
3. What are my solutions exactly? Because I've never posted them in this thread (Or on NS really, hm...).
4. I'm gonna put a pin in this one and refrain from answering until you explain to me what my solutions to gun violence are, I'm quite interested in hearing what I think should be done.

1. Sure, if those rates are actually high enough that the average person has a good chance of getting stabbed, that’s an entirely rational fear. But if those stabbings are so rare that they’re unlikely to ever even know someone who’ll be stabbed, then it’s not a rational fear.
2. <3
3. Alright then, since it would be crass of me to make arguments based upon your solutions without knowing them, please share your solutions with me? I may very well have been wrong in my assumptions and if so, I apologize on that front.

[Galloism]

1. You don’t really have to be rich unless you want a legal one manufactured or imported before 1986.

2. If you want an illegal one, it’ll only cost you a few thousand bucks.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/niallmccar ... fb35387442

1. In the US, a country with few weapon restrictions compared to the other developed nations.
2. Which again, the average robber isn't rich enough to afford. 3rd time I've explained this.

Those guns are illegal to own. Illegal to import. Illegal to fly over the country carrying it.

We have some of the strictest controls in the world when it comes to former soviet hardware, and you can buy them off the internet quite easily.

[Ors Might]

A good friend of mine who is ATF has informed me they have picked up multiple semi truck loads of grenades and full auto Soviet hardware in Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina on the last decade.

Those are 100% illegal to own in the US by anybody. But we have semi loads of them.

Grenades are legal under the NFA fyi. Not many people bother with it because each one is treated as an individual destructive device and thus requires a $200 stamp and wait time.

That feels like a pretty blatant infringement, tbh.

[Galloism]

A good friend of mine who is ATF has informed me they have picked up multiple semi truck loads of grenades and full auto Soviet hardware in Florida, Georgia, and North and South Carolina on the last decade.

Those are 100% illegal to own in the US by anybody. But we have semi loads of them.

Grenades are legal under the NFA fyi. Not many people bother with it because each one is treated as an individual destructive device and thus requires a $200 stamp and wait time.

These were not. They were former Soviet hardware smuggled into the country.

No tax stamps or any other regulations complied with.

[Grinning Dragon]

Where in the hell is this 340 number coming from?

I believe the number of shootings where four or more people are injured. A good number of those are gang crimes and drug deals gone wrong.

I've run through my many sources and can only come up with 19 as the high for 2019. Last week we had a fellow from the FBI give a talk on best practices on what to do and what not to do when faced with a shooter, and during his talk he drove the point home that on average in the US the average mass shooting per year is 20 - 30 (circa) and he even made fun of such high numbers that get thrown around in the news and on the internet.

[New haven america]

1. In the US, a country with few weapon restrictions compared to the other developed nations.
2. Which again, the average robber isn't rich enough to afford. 3rd time I've explained this.

1. Those guns are illegal to own. Illegal to import. Illegal to fly over the country carrying it.

2. We have some of the strictest controls in the world when it comes to former soviet hardware, and you can buy them off the internet quite easily.

1. Yes, and the US is a hot bed for the weapon industry, both manufacturing and trading. Anyone who's rich enough could get whatever the hell they want.
2. You yourself admitted that one would cost a couple thousand bucks, money which the average bank or store robber doesn't have or couldn't afford. 4th time I've been over this with you.

[Washington Resistance Army]

tbh you don't even need to be rich to get the most restricted stuff anymore, technology has advanced to such a point that you can pretty much make machine gun lowers on a printer nowadays

[Galloism]

I believe the number of shootings where four or more people are injured. A good number of those are gang crimes and drug deals gone wrong.

I've run through my many sources and can only come up with 19 as the high for 2019. Last week we had a fellow from the FBI give a talk on best practices on what to do and what not to do when faced with a shooter, and during his talk he drove the point home that on average in the US the average mass shooting per year is 20 - 30 (circa) and he even made fun of such high numbers that get thrown around in the news and on the internet.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_sh ... ted_States

Other media outlets have reported that hundreds of mass shootings take place in the United States in a single calendar year, citing a crowd-funded website known as Shooting Tracker which defines a mass shooting as having four or more people injured or killed.[25] In December 2015, The Washington Post reported that there had been 355 mass shootings in the United States so far that year.[35] In August 2015, The Washington Post reported that the United States was averaging one mass shooting per day.[36] An earlier report had indicated that in 2015 alone, there had been 294 mass shootings that killed or injured 1,464 people.[37] Shooting Tracker and Mass Shooting Tracker, the two sites that the media have been citing, have been criticized for using a broader criteria – counting four victims injured as a mass shooting – thus producing much higher figures.[38][39]

[Galloism]

1. Those guns are illegal to own. Illegal to import. Illegal to fly over the country carrying it.

2. We have some of the strictest controls in the world when it comes to former soviet hardware, and you can buy them off the internet quite easily.

1. Yes, and the US is a hot bed for the weapon industry, both manufacturing and trading. Anyone who's rich enough could get whatever the hell they want.
2. You yourself admitted that one would cost a couple thousand bucks, money which the average bank or store robber doesn't have or couldn't afford. 4th time I've been over this with you.

A bank or store robber can typically afford that quite easily in most cases. It’s not unusual for us to pick up criminals carrying five figures in cash. A lot of it involves drugs.

The reason they don’t has a lot to do with the fact that an AK is bloody overkill for a bank robbery when an illegal 38 special does the same job, at 90% lower cost.

Regardless, if you’re going in on robbing a bank, a few thousand is child’s play. Their getaway car is typically worth more than that.