The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[United Muscovite Nations]

How are things going in Egypt, btw?

Busy, which is why I haven't been very active recently - who would have thought that planning to install tens of thousands of artefacts into a brand new museum, some of them literally priceless, to a tight schedule would prove to be so time-consuming?


On topic, I found myself in Alexandria recently, and ran into a Greek colleague while there. He invited me along to visit a historical Orthodox church that he'd written some academic papers on. Which is how I found myself in the main Orthodox church in Alexandria during the Forefeast of the Dormition of the Theotokos, alongside some of the last Greeks of Alexandria, while surrounded by an astonishing collection of relics.

That's awesome! Sorry for the late reply, something came up that I had to attend to.

[Diopolis]

Yeah, but it's rather amusing how obviously Smith was a charlatan looking back with the historical record. Hell, it would have been obvious even then, large parts of the Book of Mormon are plagiarized verbatim from the King James Bible.

The whole thing was made to mirror the King James Bible, with deliberate use of antiquated vocabulary and tenses. Just to produce the King James Bible's "old timey" sound.

How do people not see through this?

I mean, the KJV was also deliberately written with an antiquated vocabulary and tenses to sound old timey and therefore authoritative.

[Ghost in the Shell]

So do Muslims, and so did Manichees; that doesn't make Muslim Christians and didn't make Manichees Christian, any more than accepting the Old Testament as scripture turns Christians into Jews.

I know, it was just a response to GitS' assertion that Mormons don't profess belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ.

They don't. They have their own idea of who Christ is and their idea of him is separate to what Christians believe him to be.
Dr. Taylor Marshall has an excellent video on Mormonism you can watch here. The radical differences between their teaching and Christian teaching justifies my attitude.

[Europa Undivided]

The whole thing was made to mirror the King James Bible, with deliberate use of antiquated vocabulary and tenses. Just to produce the King James Bible's "old timey" sound.

How do people not see through this?

I mean, the KJV was also deliberately written with an antiquated vocabulary and tenses to sound old timey and therefore authoritative.

Because it was written in a time when antiquated vocabulary was the norm.

[Diopolis]

I mean, the KJV was also deliberately written with an antiquated vocabulary and tenses to sound old timey and therefore authoritative.

Because it was written in a time when antiquated vocabulary was the norm.

No, KJV was deliberately written to sound antiquated to readers in 1611.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

Because it was written in a time when antiquated vocabulary was the norm.

No, KJV was deliberately written to sound antiquated to readers in 1611.

That explains a lot, now that I think about it...

[Lower Nubia]

Because it was written in a time when antiquated vocabulary was the norm.

No, KJV was deliberately written to sound antiquated to readers in 1611.

Not to mention it reads quite Catholic.

[Ghost in the Shell]

No, KJV was deliberately written to sound antiquated to readers in 1611.

Not to mention it reads quite Catholic.

Something KJV-onlyists love to lie about is that KJV1611 was the first English translation but the DRC was completed a year before it, and there is a lot of speculation that KJV1611 took inspiration from the Reims NT translation.

[Diopolis]

Not to mention it reads quite Catholic.

Something KJV-onlyists love to lie about is that KJV1611 was the first English translation but the DRC was completed a year before it, and there is a lot of speculation that KJV1611 took inspiration from the Reims NT translation.

Correction: DRC is actually a re-editing of the original Douay-Rheims released in the 19th century.

[Ghost in the Shell]

Something KJV-onlyists love to lie about is that KJV1611 was the first English translation but the Douay-Rheims was completed a year before it, and there is a lot of speculation that KJV1611 took inspiration from the Reims NT translation.

Correction: DRC is actually a re-editing of the original Douay-Rheims released in the 19th century.

Ah. That's true. Bad habit of shortening to DRC.

[Lower Nubia]

Not to mention it reads quite Catholic.

Something KJV-onlyists love to lie about is that KJV1611 was the first English translation but the DRC was completed a year before it, and there is a lot of speculation that KJV1611 took inspiration from the Reims NT translation.

KJV-onlyists don’t use the KJV because they specifically omit the apocrypha.

[Araraukar]

I guess I could have posted this in its own thread, but chances are it would just have been merged to this thread anyway, so posting it here. Please read through all of it (including the spoilers) before replying.

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt?

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist. Church membership is basically irrelevant, but the point is that I know what I'm talking about, not merely parroting something I found online.

So, why do Christians wear seatbelts?

This is the reasoning behind the question:

If the Bible is correct, then

1. the Abrahamic god is real, Jesus was real and was really the son of god and really washed away the original sin that Adam and Eve caused, by dying,
2. Heaven and Hell are real, and god decides where you end up (exact entry requirements to Heaven vary between different brands of Christianity, but that's pretty universal across them all),
3. Heaven is an awesome place, where you get to hang out with god and be healthy and happy for all eternity, everyone wants to get there,
4. Hell is a horrible place, where you'll be tortured for all eternity, nobody wants to go there,
5. if you've been a good Christian, you go to Heaven after you die,
6. life is rarely always nice, even if you had the basic necessities sorted out, thus Heaven is a much better place to be.

So dying to go to Heaven is every Christian's greatest wish. No, this does not mean I thought of the religion as a deathcult, it's philosophical logic.

So why seatbelts? Road crashes (it includes motorbike, cyclist and pedestrian deaths) cause, world-wide, nearly 1.25 million deaths every year. That's a really sobering number all on its own.

Even in USA, where wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, and which has some kind of limit (it might vary between states, I haven't looked) on how much alcohol you can have in your system, where cars are relatively safe, and you must have passed a test that proves you know the traffic rules and can actually drive the car, over 36,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2018 (Wikipedia doesn't specify if that means only people in or on the vehicles - it does include pedestrians - or if it also includes cyclists hit by motor vehicles, but it does say it does "not include parking lots, driveways, and private roads", so the actual number is in any case likely higher). Population estimate for USA in 2018 was 327,167,434, so a rough calculation shows about 0.01% of population died in vehicle accidents that year. About 70 times more were injured.

Seat belts reduce car crash fatalities (for people inside the car) by about half, so clearly they are a major factor in crash survivability, and not using one significantly increases your chance of dying in a traffic accident.

So why would someone, whose greatest wish is (by applying Bible's logic) to die as soon as possible, so that they can go to Heaven, want to use something that makes that less likely to happen?

This dilemma has led me to these possible conclusions:

1. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't really believe there is an afterlife.

2. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't believe they have lived sinlessly enough, and thus fear they might end up in Hell instead of Heaven.

For myself, I subscribe to conclusion #1, wear a seatbelt, use public transport whenever I can, drive carefully within the speed limits and try to not use my beliefs or the lack of them to oppress others. Live and let live and all that.

Check the spoilers below to see if your reply to this has already been addressed. I will respond to new arguments on this thread.

Counter arguments I've heard, and my replies to them:

Argument: Not wearing a seatbelt would amount to suicide, and suicide means going to Hell.

Reply: Is driving a car also suicide? You're much more likely to die in a car crash if you're driving a car than if you're not. A seatbelt would merely make you more likely to die, instead of being (merely/badly) injured. It doesn't affect the amount of crashes, or your chances of ending up in a crash. Unless you drive recklessly because you have a seat belt, in which case stop trying to murder other people!!!

Argument: God has an ineffable plan for everything, so everything I do is known by him in advance, and that includes my use of seatbelts.

Reply: I'm fairly sure the Bible also says that god gave humans free will. And since the great plan is ineffable, how do you know you're not supposed to die ASAP in a car crash?

Argument: According to Jesus, we should use our lives to do good deeds, being reckless in traffic isn't a good deed.

Reply: Jesus also talked about how you must treat your slaves. How are you treating your slaves? Also, nobody's saying you should increase your chances of ending up in an accident. I'm merely asking why you wouldn't want to die in the case you do end up in one? Don't you want to go to Heaven?

Agument: Law says I have to wear one and if I don't, I'll get fined/lose my driver's licence.

Reply: Are you really saying that man's law is above god's law? If that's the case, why are god's laws being used to harass people who follow man's laws? And if god's laws are above man's laws, then you should be stoning or drowning adulterers (I forget which) and be free to take slaves and do all kinds of things that are forbidden by man's law. And if you wear polyester-cotton undies, you go to Hell. I'm also pretty sure there's something even in the Bible that says how you won't be able to take you wealth with you when you die, so losing some earthly possessions shouldn't be a problem.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Doesn't this argument work on many other things too, like antibiotics and looking both ways before crossing the road?

A: Yes, but I chose seat belts in particular because I'm absolutely sure they were not mentioned in the Bible. There are some things about medications and health - even a ritual for abortion! - which I didn't want to pop up to distract people.

Q: Wouldn't self-preservation instinct alone make you wear a seatbelt? Nobody wants to die.

A: Why wouldn't they want to die? They'd go to Heaven. Also, clearly the instinct doesn't apply to seatbelts, given how many people still drive a car without one on.

Q: Why do you take Bible so literally?

A: I don't. I think it was written by mortal men for their own purposes, and shouldn't be used as more than a general "don't be a dick" guide.

That's not, however, how many self-confessed Christians use it. They use it to oppress and control others. Which, ironically, is likely closer to the reason why it was written in the first place. But the point is that they take it literally, when shouting about how being gay/having premarital sex/getting an abortion is wrong because of what Bible says. Yet they don't take it literally when applying the Bible-logic to themselves.

Q: Doesn't this logic apply to most major religions? Why are you singling out Christianity?

A: Because for all legal purposes I am a Christian, I was brought up as one, etc., and because it's the religion I know most about. If you're not a Christian, but feel the pointers apply to your religion too, feel free to try to answer the question as well, for your religion.

Q: Are you just trolling Christians?

A: No, this is something I actually would like to know the answer to. I know that I personally am careful in traffic because I don't believe there's an afterlife, and so I'm quite fond of this one life I have, even if it's occasionally painful or boring.

[Tarsonis]

I guess I could have posted this in its own thread, but chances are it would just have been merged to this thread anyway, so posting it here. Please read through all of it (including the spoilers) before replying.

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt?

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist. Church membership is basically irrelevant, but the point is that I know what I'm talking about, not merely parroting something I found online.

So, why do Christians wear seatbelts?

This is the reasoning behind the question:

If the Bible is correct, then

1. the Abrahamic god is real, Jesus was real and was really the son of god and really washed away the original sin that Adam and Eve caused, by dying,
2. Heaven and Hell are real, and god decides where you end up (exact entry requirements to Heaven vary between different brands of Christianity, but that's pretty universal across them all),
3. Heaven is an awesome place, where you get to hang out with god and be healthy and happy for all eternity, everyone wants to get there,
4. Hell is a horrible place, where you'll be tortured for all eternity, nobody wants to go there,
5. if you've been a good Christian, you go to Heaven after you die,
6. life is rarely always nice, even if you had the basic necessities sorted out, thus Heaven is a much better place to be.

So dying to go to Heaven is every Christian's greatest wish. No, this does not mean I thought of the religion as a deathcult, it's philosophical logic.

So why seatbelts? Road crashes (it includes motorbike, cyclist and pedestrian deaths) cause, world-wide, nearly 1.25 million deaths every year. That's a really sobering number all on its own.

Even in USA, where wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, and which has some kind of limit (it might vary between states, I haven't looked) on how much alcohol you can have in your system, where cars are relatively safe, and you must have passed a test that proves you know the traffic rules and can actually drive the car, over 36,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2018 (Wikipedia doesn't specify if that means only people in or on the vehicles - it does include pedestrians - or if it also includes cyclists hit by motor vehicles, but it does say it does "not include parking lots, driveways, and private roads", so the actual number is in any case likely higher). Population estimate for USA in 2018 was 327,167,434, so a rough calculation shows about 0.01% of population died in vehicle accidents that year. About 70 times more were injured.

Seat belts reduce car crash fatalities (for people inside the car) by about half, so clearly they are a major factor in crash survivability, and not using one significantly increases your chance of dying in a traffic accident.

So why would someone, whose greatest wish is (by applying Bible's logic) to die as soon as possible, so that they can go to Heaven, want to use something that makes that less likely to happen?

This dilemma has led me to these possible conclusions:

1. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't really believe there is an afterlife.

2. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't believe they have lived sinlessly enough, and thus fear they might end up in Hell instead of Heaven.

For myself, I subscribe to conclusion #1, wear a seatbelt, use public transport whenever I can, drive carefully within the speed limits and try to not use my beliefs or the lack of them to oppress others. Live and let live and all that.

Check the spoilers below to see if your reply to this has already been addressed. I will respond to new arguments on this thread.

Counter arguments I've heard, and my replies to them:

Argument: Not wearing a seatbelt would amount to suicide, and suicide means going to Hell.

Reply: Is driving a car also suicide? You're much more likely to die in a car crash if you're driving a car than if you're not. A seatbelt would merely make you more likely to die, instead of being (merely/badly) injured. It doesn't affect the amount of crashes, or your chances of ending up in a crash. Unless you drive recklessly because you have a seat belt, in which case stop trying to murder other people!!!

Argument: God has an ineffable plan for everything, so everything I do is known by him in advance, and that includes my use of seatbelts.

Reply: I'm fairly sure the Bible also says that god gave humans free will. And since the great plan is ineffable, how do you know you're not supposed to die ASAP in a car crash?

Argument: According to Jesus, we should use our lives to do good deeds, being reckless in traffic isn't a good deed.

Reply: Jesus also talked about how you must treat your slaves. How are you treating your slaves? Also, nobody's saying you should increase your chances of ending up in an accident. I'm merely asking why you wouldn't want to die in the case you do end up in one? Don't you want to go to Heaven?

Agument: Law says I have to wear one and if I don't, I'll get fined/lose my driver's licence.

Reply: Are you really saying that man's law is above god's law? If that's the case, why are god's laws being used to harass people who follow man's laws? And if god's laws are above man's laws, then you should be stoning or drowning adulterers (I forget which) and be free to take slaves and do all kinds of things that are forbidden by man's law. And if you wear polyester-cotton undies, you go to Hell. I'm also pretty sure there's something even in the Bible that says how you won't be able to take you wealth with you when you die, so losing some earthly possessions shouldn't be a problem.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Doesn't this argument work on many other things too, like antibiotics and looking both ways before crossing the road?

A: Yes, but I chose seat belts in particular because I'm absolutely sure they were not mentioned in the Bible. There are some things about medications and health - even a ritual for abortion! - which I didn't want to pop up to distract people.

Q: Wouldn't self-preservation instinct alone make you wear a seatbelt? Nobody wants to die.

A: Why wouldn't they want to die? They'd go to Heaven. Also, clearly the instinct doesn't apply to seatbelts, given how many people still drive a car without one on.

Q: Why do you take Bible so literally?

A: I don't. I think it was written by mortal men for their own purposes, and shouldn't be used as more than a general "don't be a dick" guide.

That's not, however, how many self-confessed Christians use it. They use it to oppress and control others. Which, ironically, is likely closer to the reason why it was written in the first place. But the point is that they take it literally, when shouting about how being gay/having premarital sex/getting an abortion is wrong because of what Bible says. Yet they don't take it literally when applying the Bible-logic to themselves.

Q: Doesn't this logic apply to most major religions? Why are you singling out Christianity?

A: Because for all legal purposes I am a Christian, I was brought up as one, etc., and because it's the religion I know most about. If you're not a Christian, but feel the pointers apply to your religion too, feel free to try to answer the question as well, for your religion.

Q: Are you just trolling Christians?

A: No, this is something I actually would like to know the answer to. I know that I personally am careful in traffic because I don't believe there's an afterlife, and so I'm quite fond of this one life I have, even if it's occasionally painful or boring.

Set preservation is a natural instinct. This whole bit is a load of tripe

[Lower Nubia]

I guess I could have posted this in its own thread, but chances are it would just have been merged to this thread anyway, so posting it here. Please read through all of it (including the spoilers) before replying.

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt?

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist. Church membership is basically irrelevant, but the point is that I know what I'm talking about, not merely parroting something I found online.

So, why do Christians wear seatbelts?

This is the reasoning behind the question:

If the Bible is correct, then

1. the Abrahamic god is real, Jesus was real and was really the son of god and really washed away the original sin that Adam and Eve caused, by dying,
2. Heaven and Hell are real, and god decides where you end up (exact entry requirements to Heaven vary between different brands of Christianity, but that's pretty universal across them all),
3. Heaven is an awesome place, where you get to hang out with god and be healthy and happy for all eternity, everyone wants to get there,
4. Hell is a horrible place, where you'll be tortured for all eternity, nobody wants to go there,
5. if you've been a good Christian, you go to Heaven after you die,
6. life is rarely always nice, even if you had the basic necessities sorted out, thus Heaven is a much better place to be.

So dying to go to Heaven is every Christian's greatest wish. No, this does not mean I thought of the religion as a deathcult, it's philosophical logic.

So why seatbelts? Road crashes (it includes motorbike, cyclist and pedestrian deaths) cause, world-wide, nearly 1.25 million deaths every year. That's a really sobering number all on its own.

Even in USA, where wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, and which has some kind of limit (it might vary between states, I haven't looked) on how much alcohol you can have in your system, where cars are relatively safe, and you must have passed a test that proves you know the traffic rules and can actually drive the car, over 36,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2018 (Wikipedia doesn't specify if that means only people in or on the vehicles - it does include pedestrians - or if it also includes cyclists hit by motor vehicles, but it does say it does "not include parking lots, driveways, and private roads", so the actual number is in any case likely higher). Population estimate for USA in 2018 was 327,167,434, so a rough calculation shows about 0.01% of population died in vehicle accidents that year. About 70 times more were injured.

Seat belts reduce car crash fatalities (for people inside the car) by about half, so clearly they are a major factor in crash survivability, and not using one significantly increases your chance of dying in a traffic accident.

So why would someone, whose greatest wish is (by applying Bible's logic) to die as soon as possible, so that they can go to Heaven, want to use something that makes that less likely to happen?

This dilemma has led me to these possible conclusions:

1. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't really believe there is an afterlife.

2. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't believe they have lived sinlessly enough, and thus fear they might end up in Hell instead of Heaven.

For myself, I subscribe to conclusion #1, wear a seatbelt, use public transport whenever I can, drive carefully within the speed limits and try to not use my beliefs or the lack of them to oppress others. Live and let live and all that.

Check the spoilers below to see if your reply to this has already been addressed. I will respond to new arguments on this thread.

Counter arguments I've heard, and my replies to them:

Argument: Not wearing a seatbelt would amount to suicide, and suicide means going to Hell.

Reply: Is driving a car also suicide? You're much more likely to die in a car crash if you're driving a car than if you're not. A seatbelt would merely make you more likely to die, instead of being (merely/badly) injured. It doesn't affect the amount of crashes, or your chances of ending up in a crash. Unless you drive recklessly because you have a seat belt, in which case stop trying to murder other people!!!

Argument: God has an ineffable plan for everything, so everything I do is known by him in advance, and that includes my use of seatbelts.

Reply: I'm fairly sure the Bible also says that god gave humans free will. And since the great plan is ineffable, how do you know you're not supposed to die ASAP in a car crash?

Argument: According to Jesus, we should use our lives to do good deeds, being reckless in traffic isn't a good deed.

Reply: Jesus also talked about how you must treat your slaves. How are you treating your slaves? Also, nobody's saying you should increase your chances of ending up in an accident. I'm merely asking why you wouldn't want to die in the case you do end up in one? Don't you want to go to Heaven?

Agument: Law says I have to wear one and if I don't, I'll get fined/lose my driver's licence.

Reply: Are you really saying that man's law is above god's law? If that's the case, why are god's laws being used to harass people who follow man's laws? And if god's laws are above man's laws, then you should be stoning or drowning adulterers (I forget which) and be free to take slaves and do all kinds of things that are forbidden by man's law. And if you wear polyester-cotton undies, you go to Hell. I'm also pretty sure there's something even in the Bible that says how you won't be able to take you wealth with you when you die, so losing some earthly possessions shouldn't be a problem.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Doesn't this argument work on many other things too, like antibiotics and looking both ways before crossing the road?

A: Yes, but I chose seat belts in particular because I'm absolutely sure they were not mentioned in the Bible. There are some things about medications and health - even a ritual for abortion! - which I didn't want to pop up to distract people.

Q: Wouldn't self-preservation instinct alone make you wear a seatbelt? Nobody wants to die.

A: Why wouldn't they want to die? They'd go to Heaven. Also, clearly the instinct doesn't apply to seatbelts, given how many people still drive a car without one on.

Q: Why do you take Bible so literally?

A: I don't. I think it was written by mortal men for their own purposes, and shouldn't be used as more than a general "don't be a dick" guide.

That's not, however, how many self-confessed Christians use it. They use it to oppress and control others. Which, ironically, is likely closer to the reason why it was written in the first place. But the point is that they take it literally, when shouting about how being gay/having premarital sex/getting an abortion is wrong because of what Bible says. Yet they don't take it literally when applying the Bible-logic to themselves.

Q: Doesn't this logic apply to most major religions? Why are you singling out Christianity?

A: Because for all legal purposes I am a Christian, I was brought up as one, etc., and because it's the religion I know most about. If you're not a Christian, but feel the pointers apply to your religion too, feel free to try to answer the question as well, for your religion.

Q: Are you just trolling Christians?

A: No, this is something I actually would like to know the answer to. I know that I personally am careful in traffic because I don't believe there's an afterlife, and so I'm quite fond of this one life I have, even if it's occasionally painful or boring.

You make a mistake, going to heaven is not every Christian’s wish, but being a good and loyal servant to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. Which requires service here on Earth, for as long as possible, thus, as recklessness is not being a good servant with entrusted life and oath it cannot be permissible.

[Diopolis]

I guess I could have posted this in its own thread, but chances are it would just have been merged to this thread anyway, so posting it here. Please read through all of it (including the spoilers) before replying.

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt?

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist. Church membership is basically irrelevant, but the point is that I know what I'm talking about, not merely parroting something I found online.

So, why do Christians wear seatbelts?

This is the reasoning behind the question:

If the Bible is correct, then

1. the Abrahamic god is real, Jesus was real and was really the son of god and really washed away the original sin that Adam and Eve caused, by dying,
2. Heaven and Hell are real, and god decides where you end up (exact entry requirements to Heaven vary between different brands of Christianity, but that's pretty universal across them all),
3. Heaven is an awesome place, where you get to hang out with god and be healthy and happy for all eternity, everyone wants to get there,
4. Hell is a horrible place, where you'll be tortured for all eternity, nobody wants to go there,
5. if you've been a good Christian, you go to Heaven after you die,
6. life is rarely always nice, even if you had the basic necessities sorted out, thus Heaven is a much better place to be.

So dying to go to Heaven is every Christian's greatest wish. No, this does not mean I thought of the religion as a deathcult, it's philosophical logic.

So why seatbelts? Road crashes (it includes motorbike, cyclist and pedestrian deaths) cause, world-wide, nearly 1.25 million deaths every year. That's a really sobering number all on its own.

Even in USA, where wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, and which has some kind of limit (it might vary between states, I haven't looked) on how much alcohol you can have in your system, where cars are relatively safe, and you must have passed a test that proves you know the traffic rules and can actually drive the car, over 36,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2018 (Wikipedia doesn't specify if that means only people in or on the vehicles - it does include pedestrians - or if it also includes cyclists hit by motor vehicles, but it does say it does "not include parking lots, driveways, and private roads", so the actual number is in any case likely higher). Population estimate for USA in 2018 was 327,167,434, so a rough calculation shows about 0.01% of population died in vehicle accidents that year. About 70 times more were injured.

Seat belts reduce car crash fatalities (for people inside the car) by about half, so clearly they are a major factor in crash survivability, and not using one significantly increases your chance of dying in a traffic accident.

So why would someone, whose greatest wish is (by applying Bible's logic) to die as soon as possible, so that they can go to Heaven, want to use something that makes that less likely to happen?

This dilemma has led me to these possible conclusions:

1. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't really believe there is an afterlife.

2. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't believe they have lived sinlessly enough, and thus fear they might end up in Hell instead of Heaven.

For myself, I subscribe to conclusion #1, wear a seatbelt, use public transport whenever I can, drive carefully within the speed limits and try to not use my beliefs or the lack of them to oppress others. Live and let live and all that.

Check the spoilers below to see if your reply to this has already been addressed. I will respond to new arguments on this thread.

Counter arguments I've heard, and my replies to them:

Argument: Not wearing a seatbelt would amount to suicide, and suicide means going to Hell.

Reply: Is driving a car also suicide? You're much more likely to die in a car crash if you're driving a car than if you're not. A seatbelt would merely make you more likely to die, instead of being (merely/badly) injured. It doesn't affect the amount of crashes, or your chances of ending up in a crash. Unless you drive recklessly because you have a seat belt, in which case stop trying to murder other people!!!

Argument: God has an ineffable plan for everything, so everything I do is known by him in advance, and that includes my use of seatbelts.

Reply: I'm fairly sure the Bible also says that god gave humans free will. And since the great plan is ineffable, how do you know you're not supposed to die ASAP in a car crash?

Argument: According to Jesus, we should use our lives to do good deeds, being reckless in traffic isn't a good deed.

Reply: Jesus also talked about how you must treat your slaves. How are you treating your slaves? Also, nobody's saying you should increase your chances of ending up in an accident. I'm merely asking why you wouldn't want to die in the case you do end up in one? Don't you want to go to Heaven?

Agument: Law says I have to wear one and if I don't, I'll get fined/lose my driver's licence.

Reply: Are you really saying that man's law is above god's law? If that's the case, why are god's laws being used to harass people who follow man's laws? And if god's laws are above man's laws, then you should be stoning or drowning adulterers (I forget which) and be free to take slaves and do all kinds of things that are forbidden by man's law. And if you wear polyester-cotton undies, you go to Hell. I'm also pretty sure there's something even in the Bible that says how you won't be able to take you wealth with you when you die, so losing some earthly possessions shouldn't be a problem.

Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Doesn't this argument work on many other things too, like antibiotics and looking both ways before crossing the road?

A: Yes, but I chose seat belts in particular because I'm absolutely sure they were not mentioned in the Bible. There are some things about medications and health - even a ritual for abortion! - which I didn't want to pop up to distract people.

Q: Wouldn't self-preservation instinct alone make you wear a seatbelt? Nobody wants to die.

A: Why wouldn't they want to die? They'd go to Heaven. Also, clearly the instinct doesn't apply to seatbelts, given how many people still drive a car without one on.

Q: Why do you take Bible so literally?

A: I don't. I think it was written by mortal men for their own purposes, and shouldn't be used as more than a general "don't be a dick" guide.

That's not, however, how many self-confessed Christians use it. They use it to oppress and control others. Which, ironically, is likely closer to the reason why it was written in the first place. But the point is that they take it literally, when shouting about how being gay/having premarital sex/getting an abortion is wrong because of what Bible says. Yet they don't take it literally when applying the Bible-logic to themselves.

Q: Doesn't this logic apply to most major religions? Why are you singling out Christianity?

A: Because for all legal purposes I am a Christian, I was brought up as one, etc., and because it's the religion I know most about. If you're not a Christian, but feel the pointers apply to your religion too, feel free to try to answer the question as well, for your religion.

Q: Are you just trolling Christians?

A: No, this is something I actually would like to know the answer to. I know that I personally am careful in traffic because I don't believe there's an afterlife, and so I'm quite fond of this one life I have, even if it's occasionally painful or boring.

1) Christians are required to obey the lawful commands of legitimate authority, and seatbelts are the law.
2) Christians believe that there is no moral distinction between suicide and murder as all life belongs to God. Taking unnecessary risks with ones own life is as sinful as recklessly endangering another’s.
3) The RCC teaches that our penance count for more in this world, so that for very holy people living longer will shorten their time in purgatory by enough that they will actually get to heaven sooner that way.

[The Archregimancy]

I guess I could have posted this in its own thread, but chances are it would just have been merged to this thread anyway, so posting it here. Please read through all of it (including the spoilers) before replying.

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt?

Obviously you're unfamiliar with 1 Samuel 20:16-23

16 So Jonathan made a covenant with the house of David, saying, “May the Lord call David’s enemies to account.”

17 And Jonathan had David reaffirm his oath out of love for him, because he loved him as he loved himself.

18 Then Jonathan said to David, “Tomorrow is the New Moon feast. You will be missed, because your seat will be empty.

19 The day after tomorrow, toward evening, go to the cart where you hid when this trouble began, and fasten your belt.

20 I will shoot three arrows to the side of the cart, which shall frighten the oxen.

21 The oxen shall then bolt, but you shall be secure, for you have fastened your belt in the oxen cart's seat.

22 Thus shall you be hidden from the king during the New Moon feast when he sits down to eat.

23 And your wearing of the belt in the cart with the bolting oxen shall be a sign of the covenant of the LORD with your house.

So you see, it's in the Bible. The covenant made with the House of David requires both Jews and Christians to wear seatbelts.

I concede that I might have taken some minor liberties with the usual translation of those verses, but I'm sure you'll find that my version is much closer to the original Hebrew if you care to check the surviving manuscripts.

[Hakons]

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist.

Big oof

If you're atheist, you necessarily cannot be a member of a church. The Lutheran Church of Finland has a statement of belief required for membership that you reject. The only reason you're still a member is because you're lying by omission and not telling your priest/bishop that you're no longer a member of the faithful.

[Kernen]

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist.

Big oof

If you're atheist, you necessarily cannot be a member of a church. The Lutheran Church of Finland has a statement of belief required for membership that you reject. The only reason you're still a member is because you're lying by omission and not telling your priest/bishop that you're no longer a member of the faithful.

And yet, he's still a member. Lying is great like that. I suspect that the community found through the church is more valuable to the community and to Ara than the harm that Ara does to the community by lying.

[Araraukar]

Obviously you're unfamiliar with 1 Samuel 20:16-23

I concede that I might have taken some minor liberties with the usual translation of those verses, but I'm sure you'll find that my version is much closer to the original Hebrew if you care to check the surviving manuscripts.

LOL. I'll check the usually accepted English verses on that later, but if that were true then the question "why do so many Christians not wear a seatbelt, if the Bible says they should?" would raise its head.

---

going to heaven is not every Christian’s wish, but being a good and loyal servant to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

...the point of which is that after you die, you get to go to Heaven.

Which requires service here on Earth, for as long as possible, thus, as recklessness is not being a good servant with entrusted life and oath it cannot be permissible.

What does "entrusted life and oath" mean here? Most of my church vocabulary is in Finnish, so I don't recognize that. As for recklessness, do you own/drive a car often? Every time you do, you're being reckless, given how many people die in car accidents every year. Mass transport is much safer.

---

1) Christians are required to obey the lawful commands of legitimate authority, and seatbelts are the law.
2) Christians believe that there is no moral distinction between suicide and murder as all life belongs to God. Taking unnecessary risks with ones own life is as sinful as recklessly endangering another’s.
3) The RCC teaches that our penance count for more in this world, so that for very holy people living longer will shorten their time in purgatory by enough that they will actually get to heaven sooner that way.

1. Can you point out the Bible verses that say so?
2. If all life belongs to god and killing any life is wrong... what do you eat? If you're only talking of human lives, then how do you justify soldiers who are Christian, who kill other people when they (quoting you) "obey the lawful commands of legitimate authority"? Is man's law above god's law? If god says "don't kill" and a man with "legitimate authority" says "kill", which do you obey?
3. What is RCC? And how does that work for Christians who don't believe in a purgatory? (Is purgatory even mentioned in the Bible? Other than in the whole end of times madness.)

---

If you're atheist, you necessarily cannot be a member of a church.

I literally am a member of the church. Not that I've been in a church for many years other than to look at an art installation. Doesn't change the fact that I'm listed as a congregation member.

The Lutheran Church of Finland has a statement of belief required for membership that you reject.

I haven't believed in what the church teaches, since I was 9. Didn't stop me from going through the motions along with everyone else who didn't believe and also just went through the motions, and got confirmed with most of the rest of my age group. Until they figure out a mindreading device, all they know is that you say the right words and do the right things, so you get to be a full-fledged congregation member.

The only reason you're still a member is because you're lying by omission and not telling your priest/bishop that you're no longer a member of the faithful.

I could tell them that right away and they couldn't throw me out of the church anyway. It just doesn't work like that. Though resigning from it is as easy as proving your identity on a website set up for the very purpose of resigning from the church.

And yet, he's still a member. Lying is great like that. I suspect that the community found through the church is more valuable to the community and to Ara than the harm that Ara does to the community by lying.

What community? Nordic countries are so secular that even though the majority of people belong to the church, only a few percent go to church other than for baptisms, confirmations, weddings and funerals. Which is actually why I am still in the church, because the Christian cemetery is much prettier and easier to reach than the one for other faiths (they count non-church people as "other faith"), so if I should die accidentally, my family would have an easier time to go put a candle on the grave at Christmas.

Now, do you two have any actual arguments besides personal attacks?

[Europa Undivided]

We wear seatbelts because not doing so is just dumb.

[Tarsonis]

Obviously you're unfamiliar with 1 Samuel 20:16-23

I concede that I might have taken some minor liberties with the usual translation of those verses, but I'm sure you'll find that my version is much closer to the original Hebrew if you care to check the surviving manuscripts.

LOL. I'll check the usually accepted English verses on that later, but if that were true then the question "why do so many Christians not wear a seatbelt, if the Bible says they should?" would raise its head.

---

going to heaven is not every Christian’s wish, but being a good and loyal servant to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

...the point of which is that after you die, you get to go to Heaven.

Which requires service here on Earth, for as long as possible, thus, as recklessness is not being a good servant with entrusted life and oath it cannot be permissible.

What does "entrusted life and oath" mean here? Most of my church vocabulary is in Finnish, so I don't recognize that. As for recklessness, do you own/drive a car often? Every time you do, you're being reckless, given how many people die in car accidents every year. Mass transport is much safer.

---

1) Christians are required to obey the lawful commands of legitimate authority, and seatbelts are the law.
2) Christians believe that there is no moral distinction between suicide and murder as all life belongs to God. Taking unnecessary risks with ones own life is as sinful as recklessly endangering another’s.
3) The RCC teaches that our penance count for more in this world, so that for very holy people living longer will shorten their time in purgatory by enough that they will actually get to heaven sooner that way.

1. Can you point out the Bible verses that say so?
2. If all life belongs to god and killing any life is wrong... what do you eat? If you're only talking of human lives, then how do you justify soldiers who are Christian, who kill other people when they (quoting you) "obey the lawful commands of legitimate authority"? Is man's law above god's law? If god says "don't kill" and a man with "legitimate authority" says "kill", which do you obey?
3. What is RCC? And how does that work for Christians who don't believe in a purgatory? (Is purgatory even mentioned in the Bible? Other than in the whole end of times madness.)

---

If you're atheist, you necessarily cannot be a member of a church.

I literally am a member of the church. Not that I've been in a church for many years other than to look at an art installation. Doesn't change the fact that I'm listed as a congregation member.

The Lutheran Church of Finland has a statement of belief required for membership that you reject.

I haven't believed in what the church teaches, since I was 9. Didn't stop me from going through the motions along with everyone else who didn't believe and also just went through the motions, and got confirmed with most of the rest of my age group. Until they figure out a mindreading device, all they know is that you say the right words and do the right things, so you get to be a full-fledged congregation member.

The only reason you're still a member is because you're lying by omission and not telling your priest/bishop that you're no longer a member of the faithful.

I could tell them that right away and they couldn't throw me out of the church anyway. It just doesn't work like that. Though resigning from it is as easy as proving your identity on a website set up for the very purpose of resigning from the church.

And yet, he's still a member. Lying is great like that. I suspect that the community found through the church is more valuable to the community and to Ara than the harm that Ara does to the community by lying.

What community? Nordic countries are so secular that even though the majority of people belong to the church, only a few percent go to church other than for baptisms, confirmations, weddings and funerals. Which is actually why I am still in the church, because the Christian cemetery is much prettier and easier to reach than the one for other faiths (they count non-church people as "other faith"), so if I should die accidentally, my family would have an easier time to go put a candle on the grave at Christmas.

Now, do you two have any actual arguments besides personal attacks?

Nobody has personally attacked you. And they’ve been more than gracious in trying to give you arguments.

I won’t be. Your premise is sophist nonsense that doesn’t even deserve the dignity of a rebuttal. Forget doctrine, your conclusion doesn’t even naturally follow from your premise. The belief in event A, even if it’s a desirable outcome, does not necessitate action B to facilitate the occurrence of A, especially if A is inevitable to begin with.

There are a thousand and one natural reasons to take steps to preserve one’s life, before you get to doctrinal opinions on the matter. Your argument, if it can really even be called that, is typical r/atheism “gotcha” bullshit that into this forum every six months or so. As usual,everyone will prove you wrong, and as your attitude suggests, you’ll refuse to accept it, dismissing all contrary arguments out of hand, and eventually you’ll just fade away and nobody will have convinced anybody of anything. So what say we skip to the end of this silly charade?

[Kernen]

Now, do you two have any actual arguments besides personal attacks?

Oh, I'm on your side, as another atheist. I'm not attacking you.

[Narland]

I guess I could have posted this in its own thread

, but chances are it would just have been merged to this thread anyway, so posting it here. Please read through all of it (including the spoilers) before replying.

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt?

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist. Church membership is basically irrelevant, but the point is that I know what I'm talking about, not merely parroting something I found online.

So, why do Christians wear seatbelts?

This is the reasoning behind the question:

If the Bible is correct, then

1. the Abrahamic god is real, Jesus was real and was really the son of god and really washed away the original sin that Adam and Eve caused, by dying,
2. Heaven and Hell are real, and god decides where you end up (exact entry requirements to Heaven vary between different brands of Christianity, but that's pretty universal across them all),
3. Heaven is an awesome place, where you get to hang out with god and be healthy and happy for all eternity, everyone wants to get there,
4. Hell is a horrible place, where you'll be tortured for all eternity, nobody wants to go there,
5. if you've been a good Christian, you go to Heaven after you die,
6. life is rarely always nice, even if you had the basic necessities sorted out, thus Heaven is a much better place to be.

So dying to go to Heaven is every Christian's greatest wish. No, this does not mean I thought of the religion as a deathcult, it's philosophical logic.

So why seatbelts? Road crashes (it includes motorbike, cyclist and pedestrian deaths) cause, world-wide, nearly 1.25 million deaths every year. That's a really sobering number all on its own.

Even in USA, where wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, and which has some kind of limit (it might vary between states, I haven't looked) on how much alcohol you can have in your system, where cars are relatively safe, and you must have passed a test that proves you know the traffic rules and can actually drive the car, over 36,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2018 (Wikipedia doesn't specify if that means only people in or on the vehicles - it does include pedestrians - or if it also includes cyclists hit by motor vehicles, but it does say it does "not include parking lots, driveways, and private roads", so the actual number is in any case likely higher). Population estimate for USA in 2018 was 327,167,434, so a rough calculation shows about 0.01% of population died in vehicle accidents that year. About 70 times more were injured.

Seat belts reduce car crash fatalities (for people inside the car) by about half, so clearly they are a major factor in crash survivability, and not using one significantly increases your chance of dying in a traffic accident.

So why would someone, whose greatest wish is (by applying Bible's logic) to die as soon as possible, so that they can go to Heaven, want to use something that makes that less likely to happen?

This dilemma has led me to these possible conclusions:

1. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't really believe there is an afterlife.

2. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't believe they have lived sinlessly enough, and thus fear they might end up in Hell instead of Heaven.

For myself, I subscribe to conclusion #1, wear a seatbelt, use public transport whenever I can, drive carefully within the speed limits and try to not use my beliefs or the lack of them to oppress others. Live and let live and all that.

Check the spoilers below to see if your reply to this has already been addressed. I will respond to new arguments on this thread.

Counter arguments I've heard, and my replies to them:

Argument: Not wearing a seatbelt would amount to suicide, and suicide means going to Hell.

Reply: Is driving a car also suicide? You're much more likely to die in a car crash if you're driving a car than if you're not. A seatbelt would merely make you more likely to die, instead of being (merely/badly) injured. It doesn't affect the amount of crashes, or your chances of ending up in a crash. Unless you drive recklessly because you have a seat belt, in which case stop trying to murder other people!!!

Argument: God has an ineffable plan for everything, so everything I do is known by him in advance, and that includes my use of seatbelts.

Reply: I'm fairly sure the Bible also says that god gave humans free will. And since the great plan is ineffable, how do you know you're not supposed to die ASAP in a car crash?

Argument: According to Jesus, we should use our lives to do good deeds, being reckless in traffic isn't a good deed.

Reply: Jesus also talked about how you must treat your slaves. How are you treating your slaves? Also, nobody's saying you should increase your chances of ending up in an accident. I'm merely asking why you wouldn't want to die in the case you do end up in one? Don't you want to go to Heaven?

Agument: Law says I have to wear one and if I don't, I'll get fined/lose my driver's licence.

Reply: Are you really saying that man's law is above god's law? If that's the case, why are god's laws being used to harass people who follow man's laws? And if god's laws are above man's laws, then you should be stoning or drowning adulterers (I forget which) and be free to take slaves and do all kinds of things that are forbidden by man's law. And if you wear polyester-cotton undies, you go to Hell. I'm also pretty sure there's something even in the Bible that says how you won't be able to take you wealth with you when you die, so losing some earthly possessions shouldn't be a problem.

[spoiler=Frequently Asked Questions]Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Doesn't this argument work on many other things too, like antibiotics and looking both ways before crossing the road?

A: Yes, but I chose seat belts in particular because I'm absolutely sure they were not mentioned in the Bible. There are some things about medications and health - even a ritual for abortion! - which I didn't want to pop up to distract people.

Q: Wouldn't self-preservation instinct alone make you wear a seatbelt? Nobody wants to die.

A: Why wouldn't they want to die? They'd go to Heaven. Also, clearly the instinct doesn't apply to seatbelts, given how many people still drive a car without one on.

Q: Why do you take Bible so literally?

A: I don't. I think it was written by mortal men for their own purposes, and shouldn't be used as more than a general "don't be a dick" guide.

That's not, however, how many self-confessed Christians use it. They use it to oppress and control others. Which, ironically, is likely closer to the reason why it was written in the first place. But the point is that they take it literally, when shouting about how being gay/having premarital sex/getting an abortion is wrong because of what Bible says. Yet they don't take it literally when applying the Bible-logic to themselves.

Q: Doesn't this logic apply to most major religions? Why are you singling out Christianity?

A: Because for all legal purposes I am a Christian, I was brought up as one, etc., and because it's the religion I know most about. If you're not a Christian, but feel the pointers apply to your religion too, feel free to try to answer the question as well, for your religion.

Q: Are you just trolling Christians?

A: No, this is something I actually would like to know the answer to. I know that I personally am careful in traffic because I don't believe there's an afterlife, and so I'm quite fond of this one life I have, even if it's occasionally painful or boring.

[/spoiler]

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt? For all of the same reasons, purported reasons and non-reasons that nonchristians wear seat belts or do not wear seat belts. I did statistical analysis for a University hired by the Department of Transportation regarding seat belt effectiveness one year in the early 90s. Funny how seat belt use is just as effective or in a few cases detrimental (e.g., overwhelming flash flood, plummeting over a ravine) for anyone regardless of a person' s theistic or atheistic propensity. Health, sleep, weather, terrain, vehicle, and driving conditions are contributing factors as human beings that by God's grace we make it home in one piece.

I reject premise that the Lord of Life wants us not to live our lives to the fullest for His glory (and to cling to life to the best of our ability). I also reject the assumption that Christians must embrace a meaningless death. Death is the last enemy that will be destroyed and It is those who hate hate God who love death.

[Evil Dictators Happyland]

I guess I could have posted this in its own thread, but chances are it would just have been merged to this thread anyway, so posting it here. Please read through all of it (including the spoilers) before replying.

Why do Christians wear a seatbelt?

As a preface, I was baptized, raised and confirmed as a Lutheran Christian, and still belong to the Lutheran Church of Finland. Yet I'm also an agnostic atheist. Church membership is basically irrelevant, but the point is that I know what I'm talking about, not merely parroting something I found online.

So, why do Christians wear seatbelts?

This is the reasoning behind the question:

If the Bible is correct, then

1. the Abrahamic god is real, Jesus was real and was really the son of god and really washed away the original sin that Adam and Eve caused, by dying,
2. Heaven and Hell are real, and god decides where you end up (exact entry requirements to Heaven vary between different brands of Christianity, but that's pretty universal across them all),
3. Heaven is an awesome place, where you get to hang out with god and be healthy and happy for all eternity, everyone wants to get there,
4. Hell is a horrible place, where you'll be tortured for all eternity, nobody wants to go there,
5. if you've been a good Christian, you go to Heaven after you die,
6. life is rarely always nice, even if you had the basic necessities sorted out, thus Heaven is a much better place to be.

So dying to go to Heaven is every Christian's greatest wish. No, this does not mean I thought of the religion as a deathcult, it's philosophical logic.

So why seatbelts? Road crashes (it includes motorbike, cyclist and pedestrian deaths) cause, world-wide, nearly 1.25 million deaths every year. That's a really sobering number all on its own.

Even in USA, where wearing a seatbelt is mandatory, and which has some kind of limit (it might vary between states, I haven't looked) on how much alcohol you can have in your system, where cars are relatively safe, and you must have passed a test that proves you know the traffic rules and can actually drive the car, over 36,000 people died in motor vehicle accidents in 2018 (Wikipedia doesn't specify if that means only people in or on the vehicles - it does include pedestrians - or if it also includes cyclists hit by motor vehicles, but it does say it does "not include parking lots, driveways, and private roads", so the actual number is in any case likely higher). Population estimate for USA in 2018 was 327,167,434, so a rough calculation shows about 0.01% of population died in vehicle accidents that year. About 70 times more were injured.

Seat belts reduce car crash fatalities (for people inside the car) by about half, so clearly they are a major factor in crash survivability, and not using one significantly increases your chance of dying in a traffic accident.

So why would someone, whose greatest wish is (by applying Bible's logic) to die as soon as possible, so that they can go to Heaven, want to use something that makes that less likely to happen?

This dilemma has led me to these possible conclusions:

1. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't really believe there is an afterlife.

2. Seatbelt-wearing Christians don't believe they have lived sinlessly enough, and thus fear they might end up in Hell instead of Heaven.

For myself, I subscribe to conclusion #1, wear a seatbelt, use public transport whenever I can, drive carefully within the speed limits and try to not use my beliefs or the lack of them to oppress others. Live and let live and all that.

Check the spoilers below to see if your reply to this has already been addressed. I will respond to new arguments on this thread.

Counter arguments I've heard, and my replies to them:

Argument: Not wearing a seatbelt would amount to suicide, and suicide means going to Hell.

Reply: Is driving a car also suicide? You're much more likely to die in a car crash if you're driving a car than if you're not. A seatbelt would merely make you more likely to die, instead of being (merely/badly) injured. It doesn't affect the amount of crashes, or your chances of ending up in a crash. Unless you drive recklessly because you have a seat belt, in which case stop trying to murder other people!!!

Argument: God has an ineffable plan for everything, so everything I do is known by him in advance, and that includes my use of seatbelts.

Reply: I'm fairly sure the Bible also says that god gave humans free will. And since the great plan is ineffable, how do you know you're not supposed to die ASAP in a car crash?

Argument: According to Jesus, we should use our lives to do good deeds, being reckless in traffic isn't a good deed.

Reply: Jesus also talked about how you must treat your slaves. How are you treating your slaves? Also, nobody's saying you should increase your chances of ending up in an accident. I'm merely asking why you wouldn't want to die in the case you do end up in one? Don't you want to go to Heaven?

Agument: Law says I have to wear one and if I don't, I'll get fined/lose my driver's licence.

Reply: Are you really saying that man's law is above god's law? If that's the case, why are god's laws being used to harass people who follow man's laws? And if god's laws are above man's laws, then you should be stoning or drowning adulterers (I forget which) and be free to take slaves and do all kinds of things that are forbidden by man's law. And if you wear polyester-cotton undies, you go to Hell. I'm also pretty sure there's something even in the Bible that says how you won't be able to take you wealth with you when you die, so losing some earthly possessions shouldn't be a problem.
Frequently Asked Questions

Q: Doesn't this argument work on many other things too, like antibiotics and looking both ways before crossing the road?

A: Yes, but I chose seat belts in particular because I'm absolutely sure they were not mentioned in the Bible. There are some things about medications and health - even a ritual for abortion! - which I didn't want to pop up to distract people.

Q: Wouldn't self-preservation instinct alone make you wear a seatbelt? Nobody wants to die.

A: Why wouldn't they want to die? They'd go to Heaven. Also, clearly the instinct doesn't apply to seatbelts, given how many people still drive a car without one on.

Q: Why do you take Bible so literally?

A: I don't. I think it was written by mortal men for their own purposes, and shouldn't be used as more than a general "don't be a dick" guide.

That's not, however, how many self-confessed Christians use it. They use it to oppress and control others. Which, ironically, is likely closer to the reason why it was written in the first place. But the point is that they take it literally, when shouting about how being gay/having premarital sex/getting an abortion is wrong because of what Bible says. Yet they don't take it literally when applying the Bible-logic to themselves.

Q: Doesn't this logic apply to most major religions? Why are you singling out Christianity?

A: Because for all legal purposes I am a Christian, I was brought up as one, etc., and because it's the religion I know most about. If you're not a Christian, but feel the pointers apply to your religion too, feel free to try to answer the question as well, for your religion.

Q: Are you just trolling Christians?

A: No, this is something I actually would like to know the answer to. I know that I personally am careful in traffic because I don't believe there's an afterlife, and so I'm quite fond of this one life I have, even if it's occasionally painful or boring.

Dude, I'm an atheist, and even I know that's not how God works. It's hard to pin down exactly how God does work, but He doesn't have a spotless track record of answering the prayers of the stupid, nor would He likely appreciate someone gaming the system by trying to get into Heaven early. I know I wouldn't.

[Lower Nubia]

going to heaven is not every Christian’s wish, but being a good and loyal servant to the Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

...the point of which is that after you die, you get to go to Heaven.

You need to understand imperfect contrition and perfect contrition before making a statement like that.

Which requires service here on Earth, for as long as possible, thus, as recklessness is not being a good servant with entrusted life and oath it cannot be permissible.

What does "entrusted life and oath" mean here? Most of my church vocabulary is in Finnish, so I don't recognize that. As for recklessness, do you own/drive a car often? Every time you do, you're being reckless, given how many people die in car accidents every year. Mass transport is much safer.

Yeah, your oath and entrusted life in Christ demand: “Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”

That’s an oath and responsibility of all Christians in their life, it does not say: “die quick, come up here and party mah dudes and dudettes!”

Getting in a car is not reckless. Otherwise you could never charge people with reckless driving, because everyone would be involved in reckless driving, which is obviously nonsense. So the statement: “Everytime time you drive a car you’re being reckless” is nonsense. Reckless would be driving your car at 100 in a 70, or driving on the wrong side of the road, otherwise your statement: “given how many people die every year” would apply to every aspect of life, ever walked down a road? That’s reckless, people die from falling all the time. Every climber a ladder? Reckless. Ever eaten food? Reckless - you might choke!