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Is being overweight really unhealthy?

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Is being overweight really unhealthy?

Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:16 pm

Came to mind watching this Bill Maher monologue. In it, he conflates eating junk food with being overweight, and being overweight with a variety of medical conditions.

Conflating the first thing with the third sounds reasonable enough; we evolved to eat fruits and vegetables, not meat and dairy; but conflating the second with the third sounds dicey. For a pro-vegetarianism, anti-big-pharma guy, Bill seems to lend little significance to the fact that BMI was pushed by big pharma or that meat and dairy can leave you with high cholesterol even if you're underweight. How do we know that's not the cause of high cholesterol in the overweight?

He also acknowledged beauty is in the eye of the beholder... sure, many women portrayed in hentai look like they'd count as overweight by BMI standards. But then he says health is not, despite having touted anti-vax views which fly in the face of scientific consensus far more clearly, which to cap it off is in a context where any vested interest on big pharma's part in vaccines is more in the money they could make from parents not getting their kids vaccinated, hence suggesting the opposite bias from that of which they are typically accused. So for someone who's willing to defy scientific consensus once, it seems hypocritical to bitch at people who do so now. It's certainly possible for being overweight to be attractive and unhealthy; men who impregnate overweight women first know they have enough body fat to nurture a fetus during a famine even if the weight puts a strain on them, not unlike finding huge breasts attractive despite the harm on women's backs. But it's also possible for being overweight to be healthy and below-average attractiveness... for instance, if you took more than your tribe's share of the food, but it was all healthy food that gave you low cholesterol... and everyone else in the tribe was denied their share of the food because of it. If the tribes that instinctively bashed in the skulls of the overweight thereby incentivized food-sharing, and therefore outbred rival tribes, wouldn't that explain modern fat-shaming instincts without requiring the assumption that being overweight is unhealthy?

Last but not least, he compares being fat to being drunk. In many places, food that is filling but not nutritious is cheaper than food that actually is nutritious; meaning the only way to afford your daily dose of vitamins and minerals is to have a hell of a lot of calories with them. In some towns, that is unavoidable, whereas alcohol, as far as I'm aware, is avoidable everywhere.
Last edited by LimaUniformNovemberAlpha on Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:18 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Vashty
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Postby Vashty » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:18 pm

yes

fatty
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:19 pm

I mean, yes. That's the definition of it. It's an unhealthy amount of weight.
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Ordenstaat Burgundy
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Postby Ordenstaat Burgundy » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:19 pm

Yes.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:21 pm

Vashty wrote:yes

fatty

So confident, and yet so wrong. It's almost as if people who speculate about the lives of strangers based on nothing but their forum posts aren't exactly the brightest lights in the harbour.

I'm actually of normal weight by BMI standards. It's almost as if those of us who've been underweight with high cholesterol are skeptical of dogmas that seem tailored to sell diet pills and/or take blame away from meat and dairy.
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.

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Dytarma
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Postby Dytarma » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:21 pm

Yes, it really is unhealthy. Friends are having joint problems because of it.

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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:22 pm

Alvecia wrote:I mean, yes. That's the definition of it. It's an unhealthy amount of weight.

According to what, the pharmaceutical industry that pushed BMI in the first place?
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Rojava Free State
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Postby Rojava Free State » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:22 pm

Being a little overweight isn't unhealthy at all in my opinion. Being obese is
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LimaUniformNovemberAlpha
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Postby LimaUniformNovemberAlpha » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:23 pm

Dytarma wrote:Yes, it really is unhealthy. Friends are having joint problems because of it.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. That still leaves the question of why big pharma relies upon hollow correlation-causation reasoning, instead of modeling the tensile strength of cartilage the way engineers model the tensile strength of wires.
Iridencia wrote:Inept people always decry pragmatic choices as "cowardly" because they know they're not smart enough to play on that level.

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:23 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Alvecia wrote:I mean, yes. That's the definition of it. It's an unhealthy amount of weight.

According to what, the pharmaceutical industry that pushed BMI in the first place?

According to medical experts and the years of data we have on the problems caused by having an unhealthy amount of weight.
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Postby Nouveau Quebecois » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:24 pm

Yes, it is.
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The Horror Channel
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Postby The Horror Channel » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:25 pm

Yes, and this is coming from a fat person.

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Dytarma
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Postby Dytarma » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:30 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:
Dytarma wrote:Yes, it really is unhealthy. Friends are having joint problems because of it.

Okay, now we're getting somewhere. That still leaves the question of why big pharma relies upon hollow correlation-causation reasoning, instead of modeling the tensile strength of cartilage the way engineers model the tensile strength of wires.

It's not so much the cartilage, it's the fat, specifically the visceral fat surrounding the organs, that causes medical problems. He's also like 6'3", so that may have something to do with the joints as well.

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Postby Alvecia » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:31 pm

Since BMI seems to be your focus, it should be noted that BMI isn't used to diagnose obesity. At least in the UK.
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/obesity/
https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/obesity/diagnosis/

BMI is not used to diagnose obesity because people who are very muscular can have a high BMI without much fat.

But for most people, BMI is a useful indication of whether they're a healthy weight.

While BMI is a useful measurement for most people, it's not accurate for everyone.

For example, the normal BMI scores may not be accurate if you're very muscular because muscle can add extra kilos, resulting in a high BMI when you're not an unhealthy weight. In such cases, your waist circumference may be a better guide.
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As well as calculating your BMI, your GP may also carry out tests to determine whether you're at increased risk of developing health complications because of your weight.
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Postby Aureumterra » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:33 pm

Yes, don’t let anyone convince you otherwise
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Neanderthaland
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Postby Neanderthaland » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:33 pm

Yes. People who are overweight die younger. -Statistics.
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Chasiona
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Postby Chasiona » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:41 pm

LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Came to mind watching this Bill Maher monologue. In it, he conflates eating junk food with being overweight, and being overweight with a variety of medical conditions.

Conflating the first thing with the third sounds reasonable enough; we evolved to eat fruits and vegetables, not meat and dairy; but conflating the second with the third sounds dicey. For a pro-vegetarianism, anti-big-pharma guy, Bill seems to lend little significance to the fact that BMI was pushed by big pharma or that meat and dairy can leave you with high cholesterol even if you're underweight. How do we know that's not the cause of high cholesterol in the overweight?

He also acknowledged beauty is in the eye of the beholder... sure, many women portrayed in hentai look like they'd count as overweight by BMI standards. But then he says health is not, despite having touted anti-vax views which fly in the face of scientific consensus far more clearly, which to cap it off is in a context where any vested interest on big pharma's part in vaccines is more in the money they could make from parents not getting their kids vaccinated, hence suggesting the opposite bias from that of which they are typically accused. So for someone who's willing to defy scientific consensus once, it seems hypocritical to bitch at people who do so now. It's certainly possible for being overweight to be attractive and unhealthy; men who impregnate overweight women first know they have enough body fat to nurture a fetus during a famine even if the weight puts a strain on them, not unlike finding huge breasts attractive despite the harm on women's backs. But it's also possible for being overweight to be healthy and below-average attractiveness... for instance, if you took more than your tribe's share of the food, but it was all healthy food that gave you low cholesterol... and everyone else in the tribe was denied their share of the food because of it. If the tribes that instinctively bashed in the skulls of the overweight thereby incentivized food-sharing, and therefore outbred rival tribes, wouldn't that explain modern fat-shaming instincts without requiring the assumption that being overweight is unhealthy?

Last but not least, he compares being fat to being drunk. In many places, food that is filling but not nutritious is cheaper than food that actually is nutritious; meaning the only way to afford your daily dose of vitamins and minerals is to have a hell of a lot of calories with them. In some towns, that is unavoidable, whereas alcohol, as far as I'm aware, is avoidable everywhere.


Yes, but honestly who cares? im here to live good not long.!

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Scomagia
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Postby Scomagia » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:43 pm

Yes, there are obviously consequences to being too overweight. The line is unclear, however, and probably variable.

The BMI, however, is bs. It's junk science from well over a century ago. Measuring body fat percentage is much better, in conjunction with measuring a person's VO2 max and weight lifting capacity, for a more complete picture of overall fitness and health.
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Deneb
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Postby Deneb » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:43 pm

yes
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:43 pm

Chasiona wrote:
LimaUniformNovemberAlpha wrote:Came to mind watching this Bill Maher monologue. In it, he conflates eating junk food with being overweight, and being overweight with a variety of medical conditions.

Conflating the first thing with the third sounds reasonable enough; we evolved to eat fruits and vegetables, not meat and dairy; but conflating the second with the third sounds dicey. For a pro-vegetarianism, anti-big-pharma guy, Bill seems to lend little significance to the fact that BMI was pushed by big pharma or that meat and dairy can leave you with high cholesterol even if you're underweight. How do we know that's not the cause of high cholesterol in the overweight?

He also acknowledged beauty is in the eye of the beholder... sure, many women portrayed in hentai look like they'd count as overweight by BMI standards. But then he says health is not, despite having touted anti-vax views which fly in the face of scientific consensus far more clearly, which to cap it off is in a context where any vested interest on big pharma's part in vaccines is more in the money they could make from parents not getting their kids vaccinated, hence suggesting the opposite bias from that of which they are typically accused. So for someone who's willing to defy scientific consensus once, it seems hypocritical to bitch at people who do so now. It's certainly possible for being overweight to be attractive and unhealthy; men who impregnate overweight women first know they have enough body fat to nurture a fetus during a famine even if the weight puts a strain on them, not unlike finding huge breasts attractive despite the harm on women's backs. But it's also possible for being overweight to be healthy and below-average attractiveness... for instance, if you took more than your tribe's share of the food, but it was all healthy food that gave you low cholesterol... and everyone else in the tribe was denied their share of the food because of it. If the tribes that instinctively bashed in the skulls of the overweight thereby incentivized food-sharing, and therefore outbred rival tribes, wouldn't that explain modern fat-shaming instincts without requiring the assumption that being overweight is unhealthy?

Last but not least, he compares being fat to being drunk. In many places, food that is filling but not nutritious is cheaper than food that actually is nutritious; meaning the only way to afford your daily dose of vitamins and minerals is to have a hell of a lot of calories with them. In some towns, that is unavoidable, whereas alcohol, as far as I'm aware, is avoidable everywhere.


Yes, but honestly who cares? im here to live good not long.!

Everything in moderation, including moderation.
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Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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Sakkwato
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Postby Sakkwato » Sun Sep 08, 2019 6:44 pm

Yes, it's not pretty too, but specially not healthy
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West Sylvania
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Postby West Sylvania » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:22 pm

BMI is irrelevant. Doesn't matter.

Being overweight puts myriad stains on the body it would otherwise be less likely to experience. This is a fact. It can't be denied.

If that's a risk you're willing to take that's fine. You do what you want with your own life.

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Postby Greed and Death » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:29 pm

I dislike BMI as a body builder and can be classed as overweight even at 5% body fat.

Being overweight stresses your joints ( this affects those with excess muscle as well).
Overweight also indicates other unhealthy life choices such as access sugar intake.
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Postby Cekoviu » Sun Sep 08, 2019 7:41 pm

Being overweight just by BMI isn't necessarily.
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Postby Shaktur » Sun Sep 08, 2019 8:42 pm

All medical evidence points to exceedingly high weight being among the strongest indicators of poor general health, up above chain smoking and probably just below the notoriously most unhealthiness-correlated statistic of all, severe stress. The mere fact of weight alone strains the body, the human frame simply is not meant to support and carry more than so much at all times. Whether there's an abundance of baseline-establishing data on absurdly muscle-bound technically overweight individuals with healthy body fat levels and/or those who tend to for whatever reason lug around many kg of e.g. training weights/armour/packing/etc. I'm not sure off hand.

Visceral fat, though, also impairs various organ functions, particularly that of the heart, and worst of all fat types from stereotypically "fatty" diets clogs the circulatory system which can end in disastrous health outcomes up to and including cardiac arrest and death.

I hope I do not need to link sources, a quick search of something along the lines of "health effects of high weight" should yield more results than any one person could likely ever read.

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