by Adriatican » Thu Sep 05, 2019 12:09 am
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Araraukar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 1:30 am
Bears Armed wrote:Illegal - Doesn't fit the category (or ANY category, really); mention of the General Secretariat (presuming that you mean the OOC 'GA Secretariat)' is Meta-gaming); the power that you give it over projects and agencies established by earlier resolutions contradicts (or amends) at least some of those resolutions; and 'Committee-Only' (Resolutions must require, or at least urge, more action from the member nations than just filing paperwork).
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Adriatican » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:33 am
Araraukar wrote:OOC: Here's what it was flagged to be illegal in:Bears Armed wrote:Illegal - Doesn't fit the category (or ANY category, really); mention of the General Secretariat (presuming that you mean the OOC 'GA Secretariat)' is Meta-gaming); the power that you give it over projects and agencies established by earlier resolutions contradicts (or amends) at least some of those resolutions; and 'Committee-Only' (Resolutions must require, or at least urge, more action from the member nations than just filing paperwork).
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Proposal Rules and Passed Resolutions.
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Sierra Lyricalia » Thu Sep 05, 2019 10:45 am
Adriatican wrote:Araraukar wrote:OOC: Here's what it was flagged to be illegal in:
I suggest you familiarize yourself with the Proposal Rules and Passed Resolutions.
I have, and I did, but as you might notice, there are some things in THIS version that were meant to be in the last, but didn’t make the character count. My question is how I can go about metamorphosizing it so it fits in a category whilst keeping the pieces that were cut out last time.
by Imperium Anglorum » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:14 am
by Kenmoria » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:08 pm
Adriatican wrote:BE IT KNOWN; that this Proposal shall be submitted for the consideration of all Delegates, present in membership of the General Chamber of the World Assembly on this day SUNDAY, SEPTEMBER 01, 2019, and shall henceforth be entitled as follows; “THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY ADMINISTRATIVE ORGANIZATION ACT”. This is unnecessary and ultimately meaningless fluff, that does nothing to help the proposal. If you want to cut down on length, and if you don’t, this should go.
AS SUCH; may it further be known that the terms used to address the scope, effect, and intended recipient of legislative result shall be defined as follows: This seems overly long and could be very easily replaced by a simpler clause such as ‘Defines the following terms for the purposes of this resolution’. In addition, I don’t see why you feel the need to define you have.
GENERAL ASSEMBLY; shall be defined as
the Chamber within the World Assembly concerned and tasked with passing international law: resolutions to improve human rights, environmental standards, and the like, and who, in their administration, can effect, modify, and otherwise mold the laws of Member Nations. The General Assembly is well known within GA law, and you don’t need to define terms that are common knowledge.
PROPOSAL, “THE PROPOSAL;” the proposal heretofore authored and being considered. One of the more finicky rules about GA proposals is that they must be written as resolutions, otherwise they wouldn’t work when passed.
THE ORGANIZATION(S); in reference to any and all World Assembly bodies and institutions which administrate Assembly law, in/as a collective. This also seems to not really be necessary. It could be that doing this allows you to cut down on length, so it is understandable. However, this is more stylistic.
GENERAL CHAMBER, “CHAMBER”, “THE CHAMBER”: in reference to the General Assembly of the World Assembly as a collective, terms are used as a literary tool to prevent repetitive terminology and any resulting confusion. On a very similar note, I don’t see a need to define this. GA lawmakers are expected to know that the GA chamber is.
AS SUCH, & IN CONSIDERATION OF THE NEEDS OF CHAMBER, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY HEREBY RESOLVES THAT;
- the administrative needs of the General Chamber of the World Assembly and the associated General Secretariat, are immense, complex, and nuanced. What is this General Secretariat of which you speak? I, as an ambassador, have never heard of such a thing. Whatever they are, it seems to me as though they are not a suitable topic for this proposal.
- that said needs, as referenced above, must be appropriately catered to in order to prevent a breakdown of sufficient functionality within the General Assembly.
- that said breakdown would negatively effect, in the extreme, any and all efforts to properly carry out the diplomatic and security tasks associated with the General Chamber, and due to the bicameral nature of the World Assembly as a whole, the entirety of the organization itself. We don’t discuss the other chamber here, as it is far more concerned with itself. Just mentioning the effect on member nations and diplomatic law should be enough.
THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY IS THUS FURTHER RESOLVED;
- that an organization must be created for the specific and singular purpose of properly and centrally administrating; the calculation and disbursement of funding, coordination and development of proper Human Resources, location, maintenance, construction, and development of General Assembly, and related organizational offices, proper maintenance and management of records of attainder, accounting, and similar operations, as well as the multi-level management and execution of internal policy, procedure, strategy, and operations, within the General Assembly’s many; committees, organizations, offices, bodies, councils, bureaus, agencies, and related entities. A lot of this is tautological. One of the clearer example of this is that all bodies within the General Assembly are called committees, regardless of what function they are.
- and that as such, it does hereby create the Commission for General Administration, which shall, upon the approval of this proposal by the General Chamber, be tasked with the duties outlined above. On a style format, this should just mention the creation of the Commission for General Administration, since proposals are supposed to be written from the perspective of them being passed.
- the commission be managed at the executive level by the selection of Commissioners, and on a day to day basis by a Chancellor of the Commission. Committees can sort these things out for themselves, and do so in a very efficient way; you don’t need to mention this.
- that the rules and policies surrounding both the selection of Commissioners, the number to be selected, and the selection of a Chancellor, be decided by the appropriate body at a time most convenient to them. Although this is the correct approach, it is also implicit in any committees.
FURTHERMORE, THE CHAMBER HEREBY VESTS THE COMMISSION WITH THE FOLLOWING ADDITIONAL SELECT AUTHORITIES & PRIVILEGES;
- the privilege to advise the General Assembly and General Secretariat on the fiscal, operational, and strategic advantage and feasibility of all existing and proposed organization’s, bodies, agencies, councils, commissions, bureaus, and like institutions, except those which are, or which can, be involved with the oversight and/or accountability of the Commission itself as determined and designated by the General Assembly. I’ve come to the decision that the General Secretariat, whatever they are, certainly shouldn’t be mentioned here. Also, the General Assembly is little more than a collection of member states, so it could be more direct to allow the committee to advise member stares.
- the authority to hold hearings, and issue mandatory summons for said hearings, on all matters, and in the case of summons; to all persons, which may be associated with the tasks, authorities, duties, and/or privileges of the Commission.
- the authority to determine the; relevancy, poignancy, and necessity of all W.A sponsored, created, designated, funded, and/or associated; projects, initiatives, organizations, agencies, institutions, properties, and/or other related assets. The committee can be given this authority, but it doesn’t mean much. Resolutions, when they become law, automatically enact any initiatives they create, regardless of what the Commission determines.
-the authority to; close, shutter, suspend, terminate, pause, cancel, and/or otherwise end any and all; W.A sponsored, created, designated, funded, and/or associated; projects, initiatives, organizations, agencies, institutions, properties, and/or other related assets. There’s also quite a lot of tautology here. More importantly, this can’t really be done. If a committee is established to do, for example, a WA education programme, it will continue to educate until the resolution that established is repealed.
- the authority to intervene in the daily administration of all organizations within the the jurisdiction of the Commission and General Assembly. This also seems unnecessary and not fitting with GA convention.
FURTHER, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DOES HEREBY MANDATE MEMBER NATIONS;
- Once every two years, render, for all W.A sponsored, created, designated, funded, and/or associated; projects, initiatives, organizations, agencies, institutions, properties, and/or other related assets that; benefit, are associated with, primarily function within, and/or are otherwise in cooperation with their country(ies), justification and proof of future ability to remain relevant, poignant, and necessary to the Commission and its Chancellor, via; report, testimony, and/or similar input. Getting member states to do something is required of proposals, so this is good. However, this is simply filing paperwork, so I think you should require member nations to take additional action.
- Cooperate with the Commission in good faith to achieve the above. Compliance in clauses doesn’t need other clauses to mandate.
IT IS THUS RESOLVED. This doesn’t serve a purpose, as passing a proposal always puts its mandates into effect.
by Araraukar » Thu Sep 05, 2019 2:16 pm
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Grays Harbor » Thu Sep 05, 2019 3:00 pm
by Adriatican » Thu Sep 05, 2019 4:46 pm
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Imperium Anglorum » Thu Sep 05, 2019 5:44 pm
by Adriatican » Thu Sep 05, 2019 6:47 pm
Imperium Anglorum wrote:If your question is "Who does the enacting?": Your nation enacts those laws.
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Morover » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:33 pm
Adriatican wrote:Also, as a side note, don’t get me started on how nonsensical it is for an apparently OOC construct (the General Secretariat) to be empowered to judge the IC legality of IC laws, since, by their very nature, they’re in two separate planes of existence.
by WayNeacTia » Thu Sep 05, 2019 8:58 pm
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:Well, you still have references to the Secretariat;
Bears Armed wrote: and 'Committee-Only' (Resolutions must require, or at least urge, more action from the member nations than just filing paperwork)
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Ransium » Thu Sep 05, 2019 9:18 pm
Wayneactia wrote:Sierra Lyricalia wrote:Well, you still have references to the Secretariat;
Why cannot the Secretariat be reference in a proposal? From an IC standpoint, the Secretariat does exist very much the same as a committee.
I would also question:Bears Armed wrote: and 'Committee-Only' (Resolutions must require, or at least urge, more action from the member nations than just filing paperwork)
Really? Since when?
A committee may be the primary agent of that effect, but forming it may not be the proposal's only action.
by WayNeacTia » Thu Sep 05, 2019 11:27 pm
Ransium wrote:Wayneactia wrote:
Why cannot the Secretariat be reference in a proposal? From an IC standpoint, the Secretariat does exist very much the same as a committee.
I would also question:
Really? Since when?
See the second bullet (committees) in the “proposal basics” section of the WA-GA rules viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348A committee may be the primary agent of that effect, but forming it may not be the proposal's only action.
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Bananaistan » Fri Sep 06, 2019 1:23 am
Adriatican wrote:Imperium Anglorum wrote:If your question is "Who does the enacting?": Your nation enacts those laws.
I currently Chair a W.A committee organization empowered to regulate the global stock markets, how on earth does every W.A nation administrate it’s own version of that organization?
The answer is, they don’t, because there is only one ISEC, as that’s what was called for in the Resolution and having over 100 of them would have been egregiously confusing and wasteful, however, if I hadn’t have gone out of my way to set it up, it would never have actually existed, and the bill would have had no effect, and let’s be honest, how many member players do you know of that change their national IC laws based on what the W.A passes?
So,I ask again, without a central body to administrate operations within the G.A, thus allowing it to be IC’ly possible to claim these various internal organizations exist, and furthermore, without anyone actually actively participating in them, do they really exist, and do the resolutions that made them, actually have any effect, and if the answer to all that is no (which in my opinion, it currently is), what’s the whole point?
This is the same scenario I’ve seen in every RP thread in NS, where a nation who had no historical or foundational background set up to have something, suddenly gets it. Oh, my nation has been stuck in the dark ages since the dawn of time and thus can’t possibly have developed a uranium enrichment program, but watch as I RP destroying your entire army with domestically manufactured nuclear warheads.
Only here it’s; there’s no infrastructure, RP history/foundation, or indeed, actual threads to support the claim that these laws and their respective committees/organizations have been enacted/created, but watch as I insist that they do because I say so.
Wayneactia wrote:Ransium wrote:
See the second bullet (committees) in the “proposal basics” section of the WA-GA rules viewtopic.php?f=9&t=159348
Irrelevant. Proposal clearly states:
"FURTHER, THE GENERAL ASSEMBLY DOES HEREBY MANDATE MEMBER NATIONS;
- Once every two years, render, for all W.A sponsored, created, designated, funded, and/or associated; projects, initiatives, organizations, agencies, institutions, properties, and/or other related assets that; benefit, are associated with, primarily function within, and/or are otherwise in cooperation with their country(ies), justification and proof of future ability to remain relevant, poignant, and necessary to the Commission and its Chancellor, via; report, testimony, and/or similar input.
- Cooperate with the Commission in good faith to achieve the above."
It is clear that member nations are required to take some sort of action.
Further more The General Fund, and WA Headquarters make very similar stipulations on member nations. The only actual requirements of member nations in regards to the General Fund are to cooperate with the WA, and to provide voluntary donations.
As for this proposal, nations are required to file paperwork every two years. More examples include Multilateral Trade Talk, in which the only requirement is to send a rep every
so many years.
I strenuously encourage the author to challenge the ruling made by Bears Armed, as it seems like a rule was made up out of thin air, and then applied improperly.
by Imperium Anglorum » Fri Sep 06, 2019 3:36 am
Adriatican wrote:Imperium Anglorum wrote:If your question is "Who does the enacting?": Your nation enacts those laws.
I currently Chair a W.A committee organization empowered to regulate the global stock markets, how on earth does every W.A nation administrate it’s own version of that organization?
The answer is, they don’t, because there is only one ISEC, as that’s what was called for in the Resolution and having over 100 of them would have been egregiously confusing and wasteful, however, if I hadn’t have gone out of my way to set it up, it would never have actually existed, and the bill would have had no effect, and let’s be honest, how many member players do you know of that change their national IC laws based on what the W.A passes?
So,I ask again, without a central body to administrate operations within the G.A, thus allowing it to be IC’ly possible to claim these various internal organizations exist, and furthermore, without anyone actually actively participating in them, do they really exist, and do the resolutions that made them, actually have any effect, and if the answer to all that is no (which in my opinion, it currently is), what’s the whole point?
This is the same scenario I’ve seen in every RP thread in NS, where a nation who had no historical or foundational background set up to have something, suddenly gets it. Oh, my nation has been stuck in the dark ages since the dawn of time and thus can’t possibly have developed a uranium enrichment program, but watch as I RP destroying your entire army with domestically manufactured nuclear warheads.
Only here it’s; there’s no infrastructure, RP history/foundation, or indeed, actual threads to support the claim that these laws and their respective committees/organizations have been enacted/created, but watch as I insist that they do because I say so.
by Araraukar » Fri Sep 06, 2019 9:39 am
Imperium Anglorum wrote:4. What happens when member nations do not enforce WA law?
8. What happens when member nations disregard committee promulgations?
Imperium Anglorum wrote:6. How are committees created? Staffed?
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Adriatican » Fri Sep 06, 2019 6:23 pm
Araraukar wrote:Imperium Anglorum wrote:4. What happens when member nations do not enforce WA law?
8. What happens when member nations disregard committee promulgations?
OOC: You sic your committee at them.Imperium Anglorum wrote:6. How are committees created? Staffed?
Not sure if these questions were meant solely for the author, but they're created by the resolutions and staffed by "faceless" WA workers that are in the RP reality of GA called "gnomes", simply because it's funnier to do so than to imagine them as humourless grey mass of bureaucrats (even though they basically are exactly that).
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Kenmoria » Sat Sep 07, 2019 12:17 am
Adriatican wrote:Araraukar wrote:OOC: You sic your committee at them.
Not sure if these questions were meant solely for the author, but they're created by the resolutions and staffed by "faceless" WA workers that are in the RP reality of GA called "gnomes", simply because it's funnier to do so than to imagine them as humourless grey mass of bureaucrats (even though they basically are exactly that).
And therein lies the significant difference between players, those that view all of this from a satirical lens, and those that look past that and use this site as the only half way decent nation simulator on the internet.
I’ll be submitting resolutions related to regulation of the international stock market and securities in the coming days, FYI.
by Araraukar » Sat Sep 07, 2019 5:23 am
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Adriatican » Sat Sep 07, 2019 2:47 pm
Araraukar wrote:Kenmoria wrote:I recommend submitting a draft on the GA forum first.
OOC: Also be aware that copying bits of other people's proposals as well as real world laws, is against the rules. Being inspired by them is fine, but using word-for-word excerpts is not. And that if submitted, the plagiarism violation can get you kicked out of the WA for a year.
First and Third Prime Minister of the IFC
Fmr. Chair, and current Commissioner of ISEC (a W.A organization)
Member of the Board of Directors of the Bank of Yohannes
Lazarene Ambassador to the South Pacific and Europeia
by Araraukar » Sat Sep 07, 2019 3:13 pm
Adriatican wrote:Thanks for the heads up.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by WayNeacTia » Sat Sep 07, 2019 8:33 pm
RiderSyl wrote:You'd really think that defenders would communicate with each other about this. I know they're not a hivemind, but at least some level of PR skill would keep Quebecshire and Quebecshire from publically contradicting eac
wait
by Araraukar » Sun Sep 08, 2019 4:52 am
Wayneactia wrote:I would make the assumption that the OP is simply being courteous towards you.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
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