[DRAFT] Condemn Lily

[Fahran]

Condemn Lily

The Security Council,

OBSERVING that Lily is a high-profile, aggressive raider organization that routinely raids hundreds of regions in a single night

ACKNOWLEDGING the destructive and demoralizing effects of raiding on budding regions even when no permanent occupation ensues

CONTEMPLATING the recent developments in the doctrinal underpinnings of raiding and defending that have led to a relative proliferation in tag-raiding and other forms of non-permanent occupation as well as an increase in collaboration between raiding organizations to sow further chaos and disorder across regions

NOTING that Lily has fostered ties to a multitude of raider-affiliated regions including Elparia, Voltarium, the Yeet Army, and multiple war zones and that it routinely harbors nations that have been condemned by this hallowed body or that have sown discord across multiple regions

CONSIDERING the numerous complaints and grievances expressed by often frustrated natives who have fallen victim to such raids and who seek succor from both defender organizations and this hallowed body

DECRYING the leading role Lily played in Operation Supernova, a series of raids that successfully targeted 848 regions over the course of a week beginning on the April 6th, 2018, and concluding on April 14th, 2018, including 407 regions in a single night

CASTIGATING Lily for a series of two-nation raids staged between June 30th, 2019, and July 4th, 2019, that targeted 378 regions in three separate operations, shattering the documented single-team record at that time before shattering the new record a few days later by targeting 143 region in a single night

DOCUMENTING that members of Lily have successfully infiltrated rival regions and raiding organizations with the explicit intention of expelling unprepared natives and taking those regions as trophies in the case of No Lily and The Grey Wolves GWS, the latter raid occurring on March 15th, 2019

CONCEDING that Lily has collaborated with defender organizations and natives at times such as in their systematic attempts to liberate regions defiled and besmirched by less savory raider organizations and in their cooperative military operations with Spear Danes and Artificial Solar Systems

APPLAUDING that Lily assisted in the liberation and re-founding of Lovecraft Country on 29th of March, 2019, at the request of its usurped delegate in an act of charity and magnanimity rare among raider organizations

CONCERNED, however, that Lily initially raided such a vulnerable region without any regard for the well-being of its community and then offered assistance in a public and propagandizing way

ASSERTING that even these ostensibly commendable deeds often further the achievement of ulterior motives and cultivate the public perception of duplicity and double-dealing that has hounded Lily since its foundation and rendered it a pariah among pariahs in the raiding community

BELIEVING that Lily's doctrine, modus operandi, and dubious achievements make it a unique and pernicious influence, not to mention a danger to a wide array of regions

Hereby CONDEMNS LILY.

Condemn Lily

The Security Council,

OBSERVING that Lily is an aggressive, high-profile raider organization that routinely raids hundreds of regions in a single operation

ACKNOWLEDGING the destructive and demoralizing effects of raiding on budding regions even when no permanent occupation ensues

ACCEPTING that, over the span of two years, Lily's operations have dispersed multiple regional communities consisting of young, defenseless nations, have effectively suppressed regions and organizations openly opposed to Lily, and have generated dozens of complaints and attempted condemnations

CONTEMPLATING the recent developments in the doctrinal underpinnings of raiding that have led to a relative proliferation in tag-raiding and other forms of non-permanent occupation as well as an increase in collaboration between raiding organizations to sow further chaos and disorder across regions

NOTING that Lily has fostered ties to a multitude of raider-affiliated regions and that Lily's eclectic and fluid community, often bearing associations to multiple raiding organizations and capable of sparking large-scale collaborative efforts, has epitomized this recent trend

DECRYING the leading role Lily played in Operation Supernova, a series of raids that successfully targeted 848 regions over the course of a week beginning on the April 6th, 2018, and concluding on April 14th, 2018, including 407 regions in a single operation

CASTIGATING Lily for a series of two-nation raids staged between June 30th, 2019, and July 4th, 2019, that targeted 378 regions in three separate operations, shattering the documented single-team record at that time before shattering the new record a few days later by targeting 143 region in a single operation

DOCUMENTING that members of Lily have successfully infiltrated rival regions and raiding organizations with the explicit intention of expelling unprepared natives and taking those regions as trophies in the case of No Lily and The Grey Wolves GWS, the latter raid occurring on March 15th, 2019

CONCEDING that Lily has collaborated with defender organizations and natives at times such as in their systematic attempts to liberate regions defiled and besmirched by less savory raider organizations and in their cooperative military operations with the defender community

ASSERTING that even these ostensibly commendable deeds often further the achievement of ulterior motives, such as the generation of recruitment-oriented public relations stunts, the establishment of satellite regimes dependent on Lily or Lily affiliates to maintain their autonomy, and the diminishment of rival organizations' influence and accomplishments, and cultivate the public perception of duplicity and double-dealing that has hounded Lily since its foundation and rendered it a pariah among pariahs in the raiding community

BELIEVING that Lily's doctrine, modus operandi, and dubious achievements make it a unique and pernicious influence, not to mention a danger, to a wide array of regions

Hereby CONDEMNS LILY.

I've seen a couple poorly-written attempts at a condemnation, but I thought I'd throw my weight behind a more well-written and comprehensive one in light of my recent departure from Lily on somewhat amicable terms and the ceasing of my personal involvement in any and all raiding activity. Given the current condemnations still on the books with the Security Council, I believe this is long overdue and more than appropriate. Please feel free to offer any and all suggestions since I'm a bit rusty on my proposal drafting skills.

[Armaros]

Aren’t you from Lily?

But nah. Tagging is harmless. Get some real raids going

[Fahran]

Aren’t you from Lily?

I'm on indefinite hiatus from raiding and NSGP more broadly, so that I can pursue the world-building/role-playing aspects of NS and begin participating more actively in the WA/SC. At the moment, any involvement I have with NSGP is likely to occur on the defender side of the line more so than on the raider side.

But nah. Tagging is harmless. Get some real raids going

My argument here is that tag-raiding is often extremely demoralizing for smaller regions, especially when a founder is inactive, and that the complaints that are often lodged with Lily and the organizations formed with the explicit objective of opposing Lily corroborate these assertions. Beyond that, the personal trophies held by members of Lily are quite extensive in spite of the organization's policy of not taking trophies in its own name and very few raiding organizations hold as many on an individual level. TBH is comparable, but no one else springs to mind, especially when we factor in the affiliated regions such as Elparia and The Yeet Army, which amassed probably two dozen trophy regions between them at one point. The dismantling of three anti-Lily organizations with founders sort of flies against the narrative that Lily's raids are always innocuous as well.

[WayNeacTia]

My argument here is that tag-raiding is often extremely demoralizing for smaller regions

Really? Demoralizing? They tag raid. They don't occupy. Everything they do can be fixed in a few mouse clicks.

[Fahran]

Really? Demoralizing? They tag raid. They don't occupy. Everything they do can be fixed in a few mouse clicks.

If the region has an active founder who is knowledgeable about how to handle a tag raid, yes. The sheer number of tagged regions that are still drifting around seems to suggest that some genuine damage has been done and that a noticeable footprint has been left behind. As do the often visible frustration of natives.

Additionally, as I suggested previously, Lily does engage in re-found operations at times, including some re-found operations that were explicitly mentioned in this draft, and individual members affiliated with Lily hold a substantial number of trophy regions relative to the small size of their community.

[East Meranopirus]

NOTING that Lily has fostered ties to a multitude of raider-affiliated regions including Elparia, Voltarium, the Yeet Army

Uhh...what? I'm pretty sure Voltarium isn't “raider-affiliated”. Anyhow, they were never that big, so not sure why you included them there.

[Fauxia]

Arguably, small regions like tag raiding because they can then (ignorantly) brag about defeating a raid from evil scary raider region.

Alright, I feel like rambling because I want to be ignored like the big dummy I am

My formulation of commendations and condemnations is that they are different forms of recognizing players/regions that play the game very well. If you tag raid extremely well for an extended period of time, you deserve recognition, in my opinion, but because raiding of any form is sort of IC-evil, a condemnation is more fitting. So I think it would be fair to condemn a tag raiding region.

However, occupations ARE more destructive, which means the amount of occupations needed to deserve a condemnation is far less than tag raids, even accounting for the fact that tag raids outnumber occupations... a lot to 1. I’m not sure Lily actually rises above the bar.

[Armaros]

Aren’t you from Lily?

I'm on indefinite hiatus from raiding and NSGP more broadly, so that I can pursue the world-building/role-playing aspects of NS and begin participating more actively in the WA/SC. At the moment, any involvement I have with NSGP is likely to occur on the defender side of the line more so than on the raider side.

Lily isn’t raider, either. Besides, you still hold the “Second constitution of Lily” dispatch.

But nah. Tagging is harmless. Get some real raids going

My argument here is that tag-raiding is often extremely demoralizing for smaller regions, especially when a founder is inactive, and that the complaints that are often lodged with Lily and the organizations formed with the explicit objective of opposing Lily corroborate these assertions. Beyond that, the personal trophies held by members of Lily are quite extensive in spite of the organization's policy of not taking trophies in its own name and very few raiding organizations hold as many on an individual level. TBH is comparable, but no one else springs to mind, especially when we factor in the affiliated regions such as Elparia and The Yeet Army, which amassed probably two dozen trophy regions between them at one point. The dismantling of three anti-Lily organizations with founders sort of flies against the narrative that Lily's raids are always innocuous as well.

I don’t care for tagging small, dead regions - it doesn’t do anything important, no matter how much you do it.

I really couldn’t care less about Lily members refounding regions as “personal trophies” - again, in the end, they affect no one, except for maybe that single native that CTEd in the region to let it be refounded in the first place.

[Fahran]

Uhh...what? I'm pretty sure Voltarium isn't “raider-affiliated”. Anyhow, they were never that big, so not sure why you included them there.

I mostly mentioned them because members of the region have allegedly participated in raids and/or associated with Lily. That said, this is a much fairer criticism than "tag-raiding doesn't count."

[Fahran]

Arguably, small regions like tag raiding because they can then (ignorantly) brag about defeating a raid from evil scary raider region.

Smaller raiding organizations often aren't capable of leading extended occupations of large, active regions. That said, the precise use of tag-raiding can yield some discernible results and I feel it is a bit odd to deny that, especially given that tagging/detagging caused a substantial rift between the leadership of Lily and TBH at one point. If it didn't matter at all within raiding communities, no rift would have opened up.

Alright, I feel like rambling because I want to be ignored like the big dummy I am

Not at all. I welcome any and all criticism, and I want to discuss the arguments for and against this proposal before submitting it formally.

My formulation of commendations and condemnations is that they are different forms of recognizing players/regions that play the game very well. If you tag raid extremely well for an extended period of time, you deserve recognition, in my opinion, but because raiding of any form is sort of IC-evil, a condemnation is more fitting. So I think it would be fair to condemn a tag raiding region.

However, occupations ARE more destructive, which means the amount of occupations needed to deserve a condemnation is far less than tag raids, even accounting for the fact that tag raids outnumber occupations... a lot to 1. I’m not sure Lily actually rises above the bar.

Lily is arguably one of the most outstanding tag-raiding organizations involved in NSGP. They hold the single-team record at the moment, as I mentioned in the resolution, having hit 143 regions in a single run and have a number of other noteworthy accomplishments. They have set multiple benchmarks with regard to tag-raiding, and have left a noticeable impact with regard to trophy-taking and re-founds as well - far in excess of their numbers. If tag-raiding can warrant a condemnation, no region deserves to represent that more than Lily.

[Fahran]

Lily isn’t raider, either. Besides, you still hold the “Second constitution of Lily” dispatch.

Lily is independent, but, in this particular resolution, I'm attempting to condemn them for tag-raiding and trophy-taking. I hold a wide array of dispatches that are no longer applicable. I will point out, however, that this is explicitly not a self-condemnation. I have severed all formal ties with Lily and have no intention of rejoining NSGP at any time. The only exceptions that might be made are for defenses in regions where I have history.

I don’t care for tagging small, dead regions - it doesn’t do anything important, no matter how much you do it.

If the regions were completely dead, there wouldn't be hundreds of extant tags still floating about. And, as I've stated previously, Lily's tag-raids are indiscriminate and have prompted quite a few complaints from natives. They haven't struck many massive regions, but that doesn't mean there isn't a cumulative impact of striking a massive number of small regions. Beyond that, we can dispense with the notion that Lily's actions are inconsequential given that TBH and Libcord have both been impacted by them to some extent.

I really couldn’t care less about Lily members refounding regions as “personal trophies” - again, in the end, they affect no one, except for maybe that single native that CTEd in the region to let it be refounded in the first place.

I don't think you're familiar with the re-founds in question. They were not the result of a native CTE-ing, but rather expulsions by a group of three to five raiders in most instances. These often involved three or four natives who were issue players. This required a degree of vigilance and discretion, especially in light of the manpower shortages, and often meant addressing defender organizations. In some instances, SD or ASS beat the raiders to the refound.

[Bhang Bhang Duc]

The Security Council,

OBSERVING that Lily is a high-profile, aggressive raider organization that routinely raids hundreds of regions in a single night

ACKNOWLEDGING the destructive and demoralizing effects of raiding on budding regions even when no permanent occupation ensues

So tag raiding. Annoying yes, condemnable no.

CONTEMPLATING the recent developments in the doctrinal underpinnings of raiding and defending that have led to a relative proliferation in tag-raiding and other forms of non-permanent occupation as well as an increase in collaboration between raiding organizations to sow further chaos and disorder across regions

Filler.

NOTING that Lily has fostered ties to a multitude of raider-affiliated regions including Elparia, Voltarium, the Yeet Army, and multiple war zones and that it routinely harbors nations that have been condemned by this hallowed body or that have sown discord across multiple regions

Those regions you mention would barely get a tick over on the raider detector meter. Very minor organisations. And what condemned nations does Lily harbour - names please.

CONSIDERING the numerous complaints and grievances expressed by often frustrated natives who have fallen victim to such raids and who seek succor from both defender organizations and this hallowed body

This hallowed body doesn't do succour. Condemn, commends and liberates is about the best it can do. And you've used "hallowed body" twice now two clauses in succession.

DECRYING the leading role Lily played in Operation Supernova, a series of raids that successfully targeted 848 regions over the course of a week beginning on the April 6th, 2018, and concluding on April 14th, 2018, including 407 regions in a single night

CASTIGATING Lily for a series of two-nation raids staged between June 30th, 2019, and July 4th, 2019, that targeted 378 regions in three separate operations, shattering the documented single-team record at that time before shattering the new record a few days later by targeting 143 region in a single night

Just rehashing what's been reported in other condemnation attempts. Nothing new here.

DOCUMENTING that members of Lily have successfully infiltrated rival regions and raiding organizations with the explicit intention of expelling unprepared natives and taking those regions as trophies in the case of No Lily and The Grey Wolves GWS, the latter raid occurring on March 15th, 2019

Fair enough that's new, but it's what raiders do. And only two trophy regions?

CONCEDING that Lily has collaborated with defender organizations and natives at times such as in their systematic attempts to liberate regions defiled and besmirched by less savory raider organizations and in their cooperative military operations with Spear Danes and Artificial Solar Systems

APPLAUDING that Lily assisted in the liberation and re-founding of Lovecraft Country on 29th of March, 2019, at the request of its usurped delegate in an act of charity and magnanimity rare among raider organizations

You see this takes away from the picture you're trying to paint of an evil raider organisation.

CONCERNED, however, that Lily initially raided such a vulnerable region without any regard for the well-being of its community and then offered assistance in a public and propagandizing way

ASSERTING that even these ostensibly commendable deeds often further the achievement of ulterior motives and cultivate the public perception of duplicity and double-dealing that has hounded Lily since its foundation and rendered it a pariah among pariahs in the raiding community

You can't have it both ways and I'd hardly say that that Lily is a pariah.

BELIEVING that Lily's doctrine, modus operandi, and dubious achievements make it a unique and pernicious influence, not to mention a danger to a wide array of regions

Like many other raider organisations - nothing unique about Lily.

Hereby CONDEMNS LILY.

I've seen a couple poorly-written attempts at a condemnation, but I thought I'd throw my weight behind a more well-written and comprehensive one in light of my recent departure from Lily on somewhat amicable terms and the ceasing of my personal involvement in any and all raiding activity. Given the current condemnations still on the books with the Security Council, I believe this is long overdue and more than appropriate. Please feel free to offer any and all suggestions since I'm a bit rusty on my proposal drafting skills.

While I agree your draft is more literate than some of the attempts this forum has seen, it's not necessarily better. The tag records have been covered before and you bring very little new to the dossier on Lily's raiding activities.

The work Lily has done with defender groups is interesting and according to you commendable (but not Commendable). This is where your draft fails. In my opinion to be Condemned a nation or region has to have always played the part of the black hats, no white hat activity allowed. What you've managed to do is make Lily look well.... beige.

[Marxist Germany]

...according to you commendable (but not Commendable)...

[Praeceps]

I am uncomfortable with the author's prior relationship with Lily. I understand you have moved on—it leaves a bad taste in my mouth though.

...according to you commendable (but not Commendable)...

BBD is saying that their actions are good, but not good enough to be worthy of a Commendation, hence the difference in capitalization.

EDIT: I do support a condemnation in theory for LILY.

[United Massachusetts]

The whole hostility to condemning tag raiders is kind of elitist, to my eyes

If Lily does something (tag raiding) tremendously and on such a large scale, we should condemn them. Easy enough.

[Fahran]

So tag raiding. Annoying yes, condemnable no.

I mean... That's one position to take, but I'm not certain it logically follows.

Filler.

I'll remove that section.

Those regions you mention would barely get a tick over on the raider detector meter. Very minor organisations. And what condemned nations does Lily harbour - names please.

That's fair. Lily is good deal more well known than its affiliates. Several members of Lily were affiliated with Canterlot. The second clause of the repeal of said condemnation states that raiding fifty regions was not a notable accomplishment. I'm inclined to think that raiding triple that number in a single night and raiding thousands (I'd estimate well over 10,000 regions in total) of regions in total more than warrant a condemnation. In essence, Lily has an active community that has had an impact on NSGP and I believe it is important to highlight that.

This hallowed body doesn't do succour. Condemn, commends and liberates is about the best it can do. And you've used "hallowed body" twice now two clauses in succession.

Those constitute some form of relief from the vile banditry of groups like Lily.

Just rehashing what's been reported in other condemnation attempts. Nothing new here.

The single-team record was set last month. And previous condemnation attempts held inaccurate and poorly worded information and were drawn up with the explicit intention of fostering regional enmities. If the position of the Security Council is that tag-raiding should never be a factor in weighing a condemnation, then, by all means, I'd expect this resolution to face a weighty defeat, but, if tag-raiding can ever be weighed, Lily undeniably deserves a condemnation. They're simply the best (worst?) at tag-raiding and have been for quite awhile.

[region-tag=][/region-tag]Fair enough that's new, but it's what raiders do. And only two trophy regions?

Two high-profile re-founds. I could perhaps list the personal and constituent region trophies held over the course of Lily's time in NSGP. I believe Elparia, a group of baby raiders, took ten or so. The Yeet Army took a similar number. When we pool all of those regions together, the list becomes quite extensive. I think the one objection there would be that the regions might be too small, but, again, the cumulative impact of tagging and taking so many regions should be considered.

You see this takes away from the picture you're trying to paint of an evil raider organisation.

That's valid, but I wanted to attempt to counter the "they're defenders" argument before it was raised.

You can't have it both ways and I'd hardly say that that Lily is a pariah.

Again, I'm attempting to parry an argument that will likely be made. And a good many natives will undoubtedly disagree with that sentiment - as may at least one member of TBH.

Like many other raider organisations - nothing unique about Lily.

I don't think most raiders play on both sides of the game.

While I agree your draft is more literate than some of the attempts this forum has seen, it's not necessarily better. The tag records have been covered before and you bring very little new to the dossier on Lily's raiding activities.

The previous attempts do not seem to have been genuinely considered in light of the bad writing, and, as I specified before, my argument here is essentially that Lily's tag-raiding has had more of an impact on NSGP than any other organization's tag-raiding. The quibble seems to be whether or not tag-raiding itself merits condemnation. Hence my mention of the two high-profile re-founds and the re-founds of constituent regions.

The work Lily has done with defender groups is interesting and according to you commendable (but not Commendable). This is where your draft fails. In my opinion to be Condemned a nation or region has to have always played the part of the black hats, no white hat activity allowed. What you've managed to do is make Lily look well.... beige.

I'm leaning into the "duplicitous" reputation Lily seems to have in some raiding circles, but I don't believe any region is without moral nuance except perhaps Neo-Nazi regions. There's also a distinction to be made between IC and OOC here. Lily cooperating with defenders and raiders both is commendable because it offers the community something new and substantive, but Lily raiding things is a "bad" behavior nonetheless.

[Fahran]

The whole hostility to condemning tag raiders is kind of elitist, to my eyes

If Lily does something (tag raiding) tremendously and on such a large scale, we should condemn them. Easy enough.

I tend to agree on both points. I think a proper discussion on a condemnation is long overdue, but, again, I do think there is a lot of hostility towards condemning tag-raiding as a practice. My principal reason for even attempting it here is because Lily's tag-raiding sets a benchmark and has discernibly impacted NSGP.

[Fahran]

I am uncomfortable with the author's prior relationship with Lily. I understand you have moved on—it leaves a bad taste in my mouth though.

That's fair, but, again, I don't really see anyone making an effort to write a good resolution for it at the moment. We've mostly gotten drafts from natives who didn't understand the SC and rival raider organizations trying to drum up recruitment. My principal argument here is that it's beyond deserved despite the poor drafts that have occurred in the past.

EDIT: I do support a condemnation in theory for LILY.

Any pointers beyond changing the author?

[Eumaeus]

The Security Council,

OBSERVING that Lily is an aggressive, high-profile raider organization that routinely raids hundreds of regions in a single night

I think it sounds much better if the those adjectives are reversed. Does Lily not raid at the minor update? Otherwise this "single night" thing a weird way to phrase that. I would say something along the lines of "conducts tag runs in which hundreds of regions are hit". Lastly: blech, no punctuation at the end? I mean, you can do it, but in my professional opinion: it's icky.

ACKNOWLEDGING the destructive and demoralizing effects of raiding on budding regions even when no permanent occupation ensues

You should probably qualify this statement with some sort of overarching argument. Why is tag raiding detrimental enough to warrant a Condemnation without additional offenses?

CONTEMPLATING the recent developments in the doctrinal underpinnings of raiding and defending that have led to a relative proliferation in tag-raiding and other forms of non-permanent occupation as well as an increase in collaboration between raiding organizations to sow further chaos and disorder across regions

This has nothing to do with defending, so mentioning it is irrelevant.

NOTING that Lily routinely harbors nations that have been condemned by this hallowed body or that have sown discord across multiple regions and has fostered ties to a multitude of raider-affiliated regions including Elparia, Voltarium, the Yeet Army, and multiple war zones
Pro-tip: try to shunt lists off to the end of a clause whenever possible, because they can sometimes feel like interruptions. Ditto on what BBD said, these regions are barely raider leaning, and are not doing anything to help you. Also, what's wrong with warzones?
CONSIDERING the numerous complaints and grievances expressed by often frustrated natives who have fallen victim to such raids and who seek succor from both defender organizations and this hallowed body

DECRYING the leading role Lily played in Operation Supernova, a series of raids that successfully targeted 848 regions over the course of a week beginning on the April 6th, 2018, and concluding on April 14th, 2018, including 407 regions in a single night

CASTIGATING Lily for a series of two-nation raids staged between June 30th, 2019, and July 4th, 2019, that targeted 378 regions in three separate operations, shattering the documented single-team record at that time before shattering the new record a few days later by targeting 143 region in a single night

DOCUMENTING that members of Lily have successfully infiltrated rival regions and raiding organizations with the explicit intention of expelling unprepared natives and taking those regions as trophies in the case of No Lily and The Grey Wolves GWS, the latter raid occurring on March 15th, 2019

I feel like raiders attacking other raiders would be considered, at least by most people, to be the opposite of condemnable.

CONCEDING that Lily has collaborated with defender organizations and natives at times such as in their systematic attempts to liberate regions defiled and besmirched by less savory raider organizations and in their cooperative military operations with Spear Danes and Artificial Solar Systems

Aren't SD and ASS just jump points? Or are they their own organizations now? I haven't been paying much attention to the state of the defender community since my return.

APPLAUDING that Lily assisted in the liberation and re-founding of Lovecraft Country on 29th of March, 2019, at the request of its usurped delegate in an act of charity and magnanimity rare among raider organizations

CONCERNED, however, that Lily initially raided such a vulnerable region without any regard for the well-being of its community and then offered assistance in a public and propagandizing way[/quote]
This is a good argument not to commend Lily, but a weak argument to condemn it.

ASSERTING that even these ostensibly commendable deeds often further the achievement of ulterior motives and cultivate the public perception of duplicity and double-dealing that has hounded Lily since its foundation and rendered it a pariah among pariahs in the raiding community

Honestly, objective, rational proposal-reading me feels kind of bad for Lily based off of this clause. They sound lonely.

BELIEVING that Lily's doctrine, modus operandi, and dubious achievements make it a unique and pernicious influence, not to mention a danger to a wide array of regions

Hereby CONDEMNS LILY.

So this is a fairly transparent "give'em a shiny badge" condemnation, which to be clear is not at all bad. Raiders who are good at raiding get condemnations as recognition for their accomplishments, and writing a proposal with the primary purpose being recognition is perfectly acceptable. The problem here is that it is written by a former member of the region, and not one who seems to harbor much animosity towards them. Regardless of the author's current NSGP status, this is riding the line between 'written by an insider' and 'self condemnation' a bit too far to the latter's side for my tastes.

Regarding the proposal itself, there are a few problems, primarily the fact that five clauses (8-12) are dedicated to arguments that would seem at home in a repeal of a condemnation. I understand that you're attempting to spin it as 'Lily does do some good things but they are often motivated by selfish goals' however you don't provide enough tangible examples of what Lily has actually gotten out of these behaviors. Additionally, I think the order in which you cover your broad arguments is not helping. The proposal currently ends with a discussion of some of the less evil things Lily has done, which is not where you want your reader to leave off when your goal is to convince them Lily ought to be condemned. If you insist on keeping the 'Lily does do some good things but they are often motivated by selfish goals' argument, I would place it near the beginning and end with the descriptions of the objectively bad things they do.

Individually, I think the clauses are well written, but the structure of the proposal is where the problems lie for me.

I wrote a whole thing about how I don't think tag raiding alone merits condemnation, but then I was interrupted by an hour and a half flight with no wifi. During the flight I thought a bit on it, and I decided that Lily is such an outlier in regards to the level of skill and number of tags they hit that my primary concern (the precedent this would set) doesn't seem as bad as I was initially thinking. I'm not going to bother posting what I wrote before my flight, but it ended with the line "I'm willing to be convinced" and I think I have been. If I didn't have a heaping pile of Real Life to deal with the next few weeks I would offer to take this up in the author's place if they wished to avoid the selfie accusations (which btw are the only reason I am not supporting this proposal), but if someone else (unconnected to either Lily or the author) were to take over and list the current author as a co-author I would be willing to support. With revisions, of course.

[Fahran]

I wrote a whole thing about how I don't think tag raiding alone merits condemnation, but then I was interrupted by an hour and a half flight with no wifi. During the flight I thought a bit on it, and I decided that Lily is such an outlier in regards to the level of skill and number of tags they hit that my primary concern (the precedent this would set) doesn't seem as bad as I was initially thinking. I'm not going to bother posting what I wrote before my flight, but it ended with the line "I'm willing to be convinced" and I think I have been. If I didn't have a heaping pile of Real Life to deal with the next few weeks I would offer to take this up in the author's place if they wished to avoid the selfie accusations (which btw are the only reason I am not supporting this proposal), but if someone else (unconnected to either Lily or the author) were to take over and list the current author as a co-author I would be willing to support. With revisions, of course.

I don't know how I can express my gratitude for such an insightful critique. I would be more than willing to allow a more senior participant in the SC to assume authorship of this resolution since my objective here is to see Lily condemned rather than to douse myself in the glory of passing a resolution or to garner any praise for myself. As I have stated, I believe that a condemnation is more than deserved given the range, scope, and skill involved in Lily's activities and the impact the region/organization has made on NSGP. Beyond that, I'll consider the revisions you have suggested and write up a second draft. Thank you so much for the sound counsel.

[Praeceps]

I am uncomfortable with the author's prior relationship with Lily. I understand you have moved on—it leaves a bad taste in my mouth though.

That's fair, but, again, I don't really see anyone making an effort to write a good resolution for it at the moment. We've mostly gotten drafts from natives who didn't understand the SC and rival raider organizations trying to drum up recruitment. My principal argument here is that it's beyond deserved despite the poor drafts that have occurred in the past.

EDIT: I do support a condemnation in theory for LILY.

Any pointers beyond changing the author?

Beyond deserved is irrelevant when it comes to the author.

I do agree with Eumaeus's suggestion regarding the author.

The only one content I think is worth commenting on the "foster[ing] ties to a multitude of raider-affiliated regions including Elparia, Voltarium, the Yeet Army, and multiple war zones". I don't believe it should be included in the condemnation as those regions are not condemnable, nor is having relations with them condemnable. I don't particularly like how they are specifically named.

Not many pointers as it is well done imo.

[Fahran]

I made some of the suggested edits and, at this time, I'm still looking for further feedback and a potential author to take over this condemnation attempt since the accusations that I'm perhaps a bit too cozy with Lily, even since my retirement, would detract unfairly from this resolution's chances of passing.

[Praeceps]

I made some of the suggested edits and, at this time, I'm still looking for further feedback and a potential author to take over this condemnation attempt since the accusations that I'm perhaps a bit too cozy with Lily, even since my retirement, would detract unfairly from this resolution's chances of passing.

No looking to take up authorship but whatever you do, please don't give your draft to an author who will have people voting against them because of who they are.

[Fahran]

I made some of the suggested edits and, at this time, I'm still looking for further feedback and a potential author to take over this condemnation attempt since the accusations that I'm perhaps a bit too cozy with Lily, even since my retirement, would detract unfairly from this resolution's chances of passing.

No looking to take up authorship but whatever you do, please don't give your draft to an author who will have people voting against them because of who they are.

Oh, I know. That's specifically why I'm passing the mantle of authorship onto someone else, preferably someone with an established reputation in the SC and the R/D side of the game. I have limited credibility in the SC at the moment despite having been told I'm a competent writer in the past and I'm a bit too close to the organization targeted in this resolution - having been a former member before my retirement some months ago. I want someone who addresses my weaknesses as an author to take over, not someone who'll get a decently written resolution torpedoed immediately.