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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1896
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:24 am

Page wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.


Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.

No, it literally won't. He'll never get elected in the first place, he's spoiled milk as far as the so called "left" in this country is concerned, he's white, and old.
Obligatory Pronouns so you don't oppress me with misgendering: her/she....yay
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46


D'Islami Žumhuria Kapušinu
ریسلامی ژومحوریا کاپوشینو
~Ni karže a d'Ala!~

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:26 am

Cappuccina wrote:
Page wrote:
Material conditions matter. Electing Bernie Sanders President would result in better material conditions for the people.

No, it literally won't. He'll never get elected in the first place, he's spoiled milk as far as the so called "left" in this country is concerned, he's white, and old.


Is that why so many on the left are turning to him, rather than against him? Or are these just your preconceived notions regarding his electability? Because the polls by and large show that people love Bernie.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1896
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:31 am

Jack Thomas Lang wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:All we'd get is another idiot in the white house, no one that gets to the big time in Washington is going to actually be worth their beans in office. People are literally wasting effort and stressing out over elections that don't make a single iota of difference from one candidate to the next.

What's the alternative? Fantasise over a revolution that's not going to happen?

I know the Nordics are very different to America, but at least they show that it's possible to create meaningful reforms democratically in the face of aristocratic and landowner resistance.

Honestly, I'm not committed to the idea of violent revolution in itself, it's not necessary just yet. All I'm saying is out current options are pretty bottom barrel as far as anyone actually able to gain a good post in the government, let alone the POTUS. We have people dedicated to obsolete ideas (most GOP) or cooky nutjobs like "the squad", the Democrats are washed up with no charisma for shit too.
Obligatory Pronouns so you don't oppress me with misgendering: her/she....yay
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46


D'Islami Žumhuria Kapušinu
ریسلامی ژومحوریا کاپوشینو
~Ni karže a d'Ala!~

User avatar
North German Realm
Minister
 
Posts: 2496
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby North German Realm » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:37 am

Torrocca wrote:
Cappuccina wrote:No, it literally won't. He'll never get elected in the first place, he's spoiled milk as far as the so called "left" in this country is concerned, he's white, and old.


Is that why so many on the left are turning to him, rather than against him? Or are these just your preconceived notions regarding his electability? Because the polls by and large show that people love Bernie.

He's nearly consistently the most popular among the democratic candidates. If the Democrats are going to elect someone though, I'm worried they'll make the same mistake they did in 2016 and elect the less-popular establishment option and pick Biden. Hopefully they won't though.
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North Germany
Norddeutschland

The War ends as Statesmen from all over the world gather for the all-new Sequel to the Congress of Vienna!
Overview | Kaiser | Chancellor | Legislature | Military
23 August, 1911
Norddeutsche Morgenpost: Linz captured by North German forces! Habsburg monarchy surrenders in historic event marking the end of The Great War! Statesmen from all nations involved in the war to gather in Vienna for a Peace Conference! | Mona Lisa stolen from the Louvre Museum!

User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 25405
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:45 am

North German Realm wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Is that why so many on the left are turning to him, rather than against him? Or are these just your preconceived notions regarding his electability? Because the polls by and large show that people love Bernie.

He's nearly consistently the most popular among the democratic candidates. If the Democrats are going to elect someone though, I'm worried they'll make the same mistake they did in 2016 and elect the less-popular establishment option and pick Biden. Hopefully they won't though.


Fucking Biden. I'm honestly not going to be too shocked if he somehow wins by playing up the Obama nostalgia, but my hope for anything good will definitely be shattered if that does happen. Hopefully, though, people will be smarter about the election this time through.
Libertarian Democratic Socialist. RAINBOW! Revolutionary Catalonia and Revolutionary Rojava Forever! ^_^
I am Her Majesty, Torra I, of the House Anarkittismo, NS's self-anointed Anarcho-Monarchist Queen. Now known as God-Empress Torra.
"Fascism is not debated, it is destroyed." - Buenaventura Durruti
"When the people are being hit with a stick, they are not happier if the stick is called “the stick of the people”. The State is an oppression that must be abolished."
I go by Torra and feminine pronouns! They/Them/Their are perfectly acceptable alternatives as well :3
Suggestions welcome!

Capital - Karl Marx and Frederich Engels
Wage Labor and Capital - Karl Marx
The Conquest of Bread - Peter Kropotkin
Mutual Aid - Peter Kropotkin
Statism and Anarchy - Mikhail Bakunin

User avatar
Jack Thomas Lang
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1135
Founded: Apr 18, 2019
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Jack Thomas Lang » Fri Aug 16, 2019 1:57 am

Soviet schoolchildren were taught this song, and I gotta say, it's pretty good.
Catholic Distributist
Three Acres and a Cow

"In the race of life, always back self-interest — at least you know it's trying."
Rerum Novarum and Quadragesimo Anno

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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40554
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:07 am

Talking about the US again? Ignorant foreigner here who thinks America more desperately needs a social Democrat than a woke lifestyle-liberal whose defining feature is being loudly from a minority, a symbol of progress just by being in power. Depending on the nominee, you'll get one or the other with a few rhetorical totem policies to try and make it sound like they're also committed to the other wing's politics.

Obama was okay and much better than Trump but systematic issues aren't solved by being a smiley media trained smooth talker who routinely gives "if by whiskey" style non-answers to any fundamental question. You're against oppression and you want people worldwide to be happy and full of love? That's nice, but politics isn't Miss World.
Last edited by Dumb Ideologies on Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
Tʜᴇ Sᴛʀᴀssᴇʀɪsᴛ Sᴜɴᴅᴀᴇ Cʟᴜʙ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ One People, One Nation, Many Puddings ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
The thirty-something tsundere trans cryptofascist nobody warned you about
♆ P ᴀ x D I ᴀ ʙ ᴏ ʟ ɪ ᴄ ᴀ ♆

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The Greater Ohio Valley
Senator
 
Posts: 4069
Founded: Jan 19, 2013
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The Greater Ohio Valley » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:46 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
Bernie's literally America's best option at getting things fixed for the better right now. That's far more important than holding the dude up to overly-stringent, precise standards.


Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.
27 year old pansexual H. sapien male who enjoys heavy metal and the classic PS1 Resident Evil games.
Hey, it's up to us to take out Umbrella.

Liriena wrote:anyone to the left of Pinochet: *exists*

right-wingers: wat about vuvuzelaaa lmao gottem

User avatar
Cappuccina
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1896
Founded: Jun 05, 2018
Authoritarian Democracy

Postby Cappuccina » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:54 am

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.

Probably not.

Dumb Ideologies wrote:Talking about the US again? Ignorant foreigner here who thinks America more desperately needs a social Democrat than a woke lifestyle-liberal whose defining feature is being loudly from a minority, a symbol of progress just by being in power. Depending on the nominee, you'll get one or the other with a few rhetorical totem policies to try and make it sound like they're also committed to the other wing's politics.

Obama was okay and much better than Trump but systematic issues aren't solved by being a smiley media trained smooth talker who routinely gives "if by whiskey" style non-answers to any fundamental question. You're against oppression and you want people worldwide to be happy and full of love? That's nice, but politics isn't Miss World.

The thing is here in America concepts like social democracy ring the layman's "but dats gommunist" alarm. I'd like for some actual variety in our candidates, but that's not gonna happen, our political scene is fossilized into generic Republicans and generic Democrats.
Obligatory Pronouns so you don't oppress me with misgendering: her/she....yay
##################
Economic Left/Right: -5.25
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: 2.46


D'Islami Žumhuria Kapušinu
ریسلامی ژومحوریا کاپوشینو
~Ni karže a d'Ala!~

User avatar
Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41484
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:56 am

The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Realistically Bernie wouldn't be able to do much of anything.

He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.


If he lacked a cooperative Senate, which he almost certainly would, then he really wouldn't be due to sheer gridlock and an inability to pass anything.

Though tbh I don't think that would entirely be a bad thing. Much as Trump's presidency helped kill the alt-right maybe an equally ineffective Sanders presidency could kneecap the left.

User avatar
Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5125
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:57 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
The Greater Ohio Valley wrote:He’d still be substantially better than who we currently have in office.


If he lacked a cooperative Senate, which he almost certainly would, then he really wouldn't be due to sheer gridlock and an inability to pass anything.

Though tbh I don't think that would entirely be a bad thing. Much as Trump's presidency helped kill the alt-right maybe an equally ineffective Sanders presidency could kneecap the left.


It might slow them down however I am pretty sure of the far-right we may only have experienced their primary form and first wave. With the seeds planted already and starting to bear their evil fruits.
Last edited by Nakena on Fri Aug 16, 2019 4:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required
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Dumb Ideologies
Post Czar
 
Posts: 40554
Founded: Sep 30, 2007
Mother Knows Best State

Postby Dumb Ideologies » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:50 am

Nakena wrote:
Washington Resistance Army wrote:
If he lacked a cooperative Senate, which he almost certainly would, then he really wouldn't be due to sheer gridlock and an inability to pass anything.

Though tbh I don't think that would entirely be a bad thing. Much as Trump's presidency helped kill the alt-right maybe an equally ineffective Sanders presidency could kneecap the left.


It might slow them down however I am pretty sure of the far-right we may only have experienced their primary form and first wave. With the seeds planted already and starting to bear their evil fruits.


Evil fruits? We'll have no alt-Pride here!
Tʜᴇ Sᴛʀᴀssᴇʀɪsᴛ Sᴜɴᴅᴀᴇ Cʟᴜʙ ᴏғ Dᴜᴍʙ Iᴅᴇᴏʟᴏɢɪᴇs
¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸ One People, One Nation, Many Puddings ¸„¤*˜*¤„¸„¤*˜*¤„¸
The thirty-something tsundere trans cryptofascist nobody warned you about
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Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5125
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:57 am

Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Nakena wrote:
It might slow them down however I am pretty sure of the far-right we may only have experienced their primary form and first wave. With the seeds planted already and starting to bear their evil fruits.


Evil fruits? We'll have no alt-Pride here!


Their tendrils are growing and spreading underground as we speak. The alt-right of 2015-17 may merely have been the first wave of future things, unseen yet to come. The entire rise of extremist terrorism is the proof thereof.
Last edited by Nakena on Fri Aug 16, 2019 5:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
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New yugoslavaia
Diplomat
 
Posts: 717
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby New yugoslavaia » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:18 am

Nakena wrote:
Dumb Ideologies wrote:
Evil fruits? We'll have no alt-Pride here!


Their tendrils are growing and spreading underground as we speak. The alt-right of 2015-17 may merely have been the first wave of future things, unseen yet to come. The entire rise of extremist terrorism is the proof thereof.


"But muh ethknowsate!"
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well, this happened because after a failed attempt at a corporatocracy, Serbia was left with a pseudo-nationalist government which was incompetent to say the least. Following a revolution, a slightly authoritarian social democracy was established. More nations were incorporated as time went on. Now it's slightly-self sustaining and technologic advanced.

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Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5125
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:20 am

New yugoslavaia wrote:
Nakena wrote:
Their tendrils are growing and spreading underground as we speak. The alt-right of 2015-17 may merely have been the first wave of future things, unseen yet to come. The entire rise of extremist terrorism is the proof thereof.


"But muh ethknowsate!"


Yes, yes I see you know it too.
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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5246
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:13 am

Kowani wrote:
Jean-Paul Sartre wrote:“Supports: Liberty, Capitalism, Libertarianism, Low Taxes, Free Speech, Civic Nationalism, Representative Republics, Secularism, Atheism, Gun Rights”

God, do I feel stupid right now... :oops:

Guys, what I wrote was a shitpost.
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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41484
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:16 am

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Kowani wrote:God, do I feel stupid right now... :oops:

Guys, what I wrote was a shitpost.


It's not a shitpost if it's true though.

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Ostroeuropa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 51883
Founded: Jun 14, 2006
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Ostroeuropa » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:18 am

The alt-right isn't shrinking as a result of the Trump presidency, why would you think that?

The growth of the far-right is still going on. In Germany they've overtaken Merkels party in a few areas. In general in fact they're a growing movement.
New Sig, who dis?
Patriarchy theory is a valid academic theory, not incel tier psychological abuse which maps on to any situation a woman doesn't like and enables them to rationalize a hostility to men, we swear.
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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5246
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:19 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Guys, what I wrote was a shitpost.


It's not a shitpost if it's true though.

What makes you think my post about banning tankies is something I truly believe in?
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Click here.

Rights are what the people are willing to fight for.

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Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5125
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:21 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Guys, what I wrote was a shitpost.


It's not a shitpost if it's true though.


Sometimes its hard to tell those days. But lets be honest, that makes it all the merrier.
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Washington Resistance Army
Post Czar
 
Posts: 41484
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:23 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:The alt-right isn't shrinking as a result of the Trump presidency, why would you think that?

The growth of the far-right is still going on. In Germany they've overtaken Merkels party in a few areas. In general in fact they're a growing movement.


The alt-right in the US is pretty dead currently tbh. Trump letdown played more than a small part imo.

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Kowani
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15322
Founded: Apr 01, 2018
Democratic Socialists

Postby Kowani » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:23 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:The alt-right isn't shrinking as a result of the Trump presidency, why would you think that?

The growth of the far-right is still going on. In Germany they've overtaken Merkels party in a few areas. In general in fact they're a growing movement.

Yeah, it was quite obvious that we were talking about the US.
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Atheist and still proud of it.
Post-Capitalist, Post-Nationalist.
Rights are functionally just privileges society has deemed important.
Prydania wrote:
As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Seangoli wrote:You are spouting nonsensical drivel with no coherent thought, little logic, and at the end of it all just angry opining at the clouds based on a truly astonishly low level of knowledge or understanding of the subject matter.

0% Capitalism

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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5246
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:24 am

Ostroeuropa wrote:The alt-right isn't shrinking as a result of the Trump presidency, why would you think that?

The growth of the far-right is still going on. In Germany they've overtaken Merkels party in a few areas. In general in fact they're a growing movement.

I'm sure that is because of immigration.
Last edited by LiberNovusAmericae on Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Click here.

Rights are what the people are willing to fight for.

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Nakena
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5125
Founded: May 06, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Nakena » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:25 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:The alt-right isn't shrinking as a result of the Trump presidency, why would you think that?

The growth of the far-right is still going on. In Germany they've overtaken Merkels party in a few areas. In general in fact they're a growing movement.


The alt-right in the US is pretty dead currently tbh. Trump letdown played more than a small part imo.


And nothing of value got lost. I have most of them as pretty cringy in memory. Which being said whoever is left now or still around of it is probably a true believer.
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Female or they/them pronoun preferred but not required
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LiberNovusAmericae
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5246
Founded: Mar 10, 2018
Left-Leaning College State

Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:25 am

Washington Resistance Army wrote:
Ostroeuropa wrote:The alt-right isn't shrinking as a result of the Trump presidency, why would you think that?

The growth of the far-right is still going on. In Germany they've overtaken Merkels party in a few areas. In general in fact they're a growing movement.


The alt-right in the US is pretty dead currently tbh. Trump letdown played more than a small part imo.

Good riddance. They were a faction of right-wing politics where the term "deplorable" fit.
Nova Cyberia wrote:Thank you. I appreciate your respect for my low opinion of you.
Click here.

Rights are what the people are willing to fight for.

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