Man Arrested For Walking Into Walmart (with weapons)

[Farnhamia]

It does seem familiar, now that you mention it.

Someone takes a shot at me I take a shot in return.

Actually, no, it doesn't work that way, and you know it. The reason you don't have a right to return fire is that at some point you'll cross the line into flaming. This is your third nation now, isn't it?

[Gormwood]

Someone takes a shot at me I take a shot in return.

Actually, no, it doesn't work that way, and you know it. The reason you don't have a right to return fire is that at some point you'll cross the line into flaming. This is your third nation now, isn't it?

So people have a free license to take shots at me then.

[Farnhamia]

Actually, no, it doesn't work that way, and you know it. The reason you don't have a right to return fire is that at some point you'll cross the line into flaming. This is your third nation now, isn't it?

So people have a free license to take shots at me then.

Don't be disingenuous.

And that said, back to the topic!

[LiberNovusAmericae]

Nobody I know fears going anywhere because they might potentially be gunned down. Mass shootings are fairly uncommon compared to other unfortunate events.

I'm a teacher in Florida. The state that said "maybe let teachers carry guns?" as a solution to school shootings. It's a professional hazard we have to prepare for.

I'm also Jewish. And we've had two synagogue in this country in under a year. So now that's a concern when I go to worship.

Because god forbid you go to a range and learn how to shoot.

[Chernoslavia]

Nobody I know fears going anywhere because they might potentially be gunned down. Mass shootings are fairly uncommon compared to other unfortunate events.

I'm a teacher in Florida. The state that said "maybe let teachers carry guns?" as a solution to school shootings. It's a professional hazard we have to prepare for.

I'm also Jewish. And we've had two synagogue in this country in under a year. So now that's a concern when I go to worship.

Your personal problems don't trump my rights.

[Chernoslavia]

From what I can tell panic ensued only when the fire alarm was pulled.

Even if that is true, he panicked the manager who pulled the fire alarm.

Doesn't matter. Nobody told the manager to pull the fire alarm. And even if people panicked just by the armed guy's presence, that's not a reaso for him to be arrested since he didn't break any law.

[Ors Might]

Nobody I know fears going anywhere because they might potentially be gunned down. Mass shootings are fairly uncommon compared to other unfortunate events.

I'm a teacher in Florida. The state that said "maybe let teachers carry guns?" as a solution to school shootings. It's a professional hazard we have to prepare for.

I'm also Jewish. And we've had two synagogue in this country in under a year. So now that's a concern when I go to worship.

And I was a student in high school for the past several years. Never felt fear for my life nor did I notice anyone else expressing fear for their life due to school shootings.

Your personal feelings are valid but I don’t see how that’s justification for anything.

[Prydania]

I'm a teacher in Florida. The state that said "maybe let teachers carry guns?" as a solution to school shootings. It's a professional hazard we have to prepare for.

I'm also Jewish. And we've had two synagogue in this country in under a year. So now that's a concern when I go to worship.

Because god forbid you go to a range and learn how to shoot.

Here's the secret, buddy. I do know how to shoot. I own a handgun and a hunting rifle. I shoot and hunt recreationally. Know what though? When arming people who are supposed to be educating children becomes the "easy" solution to mass shootings at school? Your society MIGHT have a gun problem.
And as both a teacher and a person of faith? It's a sad day when guns become a required fixture in both the classroom and temple.

Your personal problems don't trump my rights.

Your absurd, broken, anti-social concept of "liberty" doesn't trump what should be my right to live free from the fear that a mentally unbalanced person or white supremacist terrorist (though I suppose the distinction there is paper thin) will kill me in a fire fight. I hate to break it to you, but your world view is fundamentally broken if you assume that as the new normal is preferable to doing anything to fix the issue.

And I was a student in high school for the past several years. Never felt fear for my life nor did I notice anyone else expressing fear for their life due to school shootings.

FFS man. I was working during the walk out in protest of the shootings in Miami. My colleagues and I were discussing the pros and cons of bringing firearms into work. I don't know where you are in life now, but it's become a much more charged climate.
Do we (both my colleagues and our students) come to school each day fearing for our lives? No, but it's not a distant worry either.

Your personal feelings are valid but I don’t see how that’s justification for anything.

I'll happily repeat myself. As a gun owner, recreational shooter, and hunter?
It is a sad state of affairs when "you should bring a gun to the school you work at/the synagogue you pray at" becomes the easy solution offered to the threat of school shootings and white supremacist terrorism.

When "why don't they have guns in the school/place of worship?" is being suggested at the norm then society as a whole has a deeply rooted issue. And the default of "my liberty, my personal freedom!" falls short.
Social contract theory. Learn it. The government has the right, and some would say moral authority, to step in if an excess in "personal liberty" is proving dangerous to the common good of society.

[The Chuck]

Your personal problems don't trump my rights.

Your absurd, broken, anti-social concept of "liberty" doesn't trump what should be my right to live free from the fear that a mentally unbalanced person or white supremacist terrorist (though I suppose the distinction there is paper thin) will kill me in a fire fight. I hate to break it to you, but your world view is fundamentally broken if you assume that as the new normal is preferable to doing anything to fix the issue.

Bolded and underlined for emphasis.

Are you saying that you will be carrying a gun if heaven forbid something happened and you were there? A firefight is when it's a fight with guns, I.E., both sides are armed. If this is the case, hope over to the gun enthusiasts thread and we can help get you kitted out in 2nd Amendment gear to protect yourself and others. If this simply was misused terminology, still consider exercising your rights to self defense.

[Prydania]

If this simply was misused terminology, still consider exercising your rights to self defense.

I'm ready, willing, and trained to do so.
That being said? I think it's a sad state of affairs when "you should have a gun in your classroom/synagogue" becomes the norm. It's indicative of a wider societal problem that this particular society can't solve because of its misplaced faith in libertarian ideology.

[Ors Might]

Because god forbid you go to a range and learn how to shoot.

Here's the secret, buddy. I do know how to shoot. I own a handgun and a hunting rifle. I shoot and hunt recreationally. Know what though? When arming people who are supposed to be educating children becomes the "easy" solution to mass shootings at school? Your society MIGHT have a gun problem.
And as both a teacher and a person of faith? It's a sad day when guns become a required fixture in both the classroom and temple.

Your personal problems don't trump my rights.

Your absurd, broken, anti-social concept of "liberty" doesn't trump what should be my right to live free from the fear that a mentally unbalanced person or white supremacist terrorist (though I suppose the distinction there is paper thin) will kill me in a fire fight. I hate to break it to you, but your world view is fundamentally broken if you assume that as the new normal is preferable to doing anything to fix the issue.

And I was a student in high school for the past several years. Never felt fear for my life nor did I notice anyone else expressing fear for their life due to school shootings.

FFS man. I was working during the walk out in protest of the shootings in Miami. My colleagues and I were discussing the pros and cons of bringing firearms into work. I don't know where you are in life now, but it's become a much more charged climate.
Do we (both my colleagues and our students) come to school each day fearing for our lives? No, but it's not a distant worry either.

Your personal feelings are valid but I don’t see how that’s justification for anything.

I'll happily repeat myself. As a gun owner, recreational shooter, and hunter?
It is a sad state of affairs when "you should bring a gun to the school you work at/the synagogue you pray at" becomes the easy solution offered to the threat of school shootings and white supremacist terrorism.

When "why don't they have guns in the school/place of worship?" is being suggested at the norm then society as a whole has a deeply rooted issue. And the default of "my liberty, my personal freedom!" falls short.
Social contract theory. Learn it. The government has the right, and some would say moral authority, to step in if an excess in "personal liberty" is proving dangerous to the common good of society.

Are your concerns of being attacked based upon solidly gathered statistical data or fear-mongering? One is a good thing to base policy on, the other is not.

You being those things does not make you any less wrong here. It’s a much sadder state of affairs when the supposed solution to people being victimized is to render them defenseless.

I was unaware that the argument that children are worth defending was problematic.

The government can claim that moral responsibility when it earns that level of trust. It being completely willing to disarm its populace under the facade of making them safer does not help them in that endeavor.

[Prydania]

I was unaware that the argument that children are worth defending was problematic.

Oh get over yourself. Of course they are. When it comes to individual teachers needing to be armed, however? That's a sign that there is a problem.

Are your concerns of being attacked based upon solidly gathered statistical data or fear-mongering? One is a good thing to base policy on, the other is not.

There have been two shootings at synagogues in the past year. And given the state of the country right now? I wouldn't shocked if number three happens before we get to October (the one year mark from the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue shooting). I don't think I'm being unreasonable to be a bit antsy going to Temple myself these days. Nor do I think such anxiety is born of fear mongering. Those two shootings actually happened. Who's to say my synagogue/community won't be next?

You being those things does not make you any less wrong here. It’s a much sadder state of affairs when the supposed solution to people being victimized is to render them defenseless.

The ultimate goal here should be the removal of the element that is victimizing people. In this case? It's the fact that it's apparently legal to walk into Walmart fully armed. Again, I own guns. I take them out of my house when I shoot at the range or go hunting. I don't carry them to go G-ddman grocery shopping.

The government can claim that moral responsibility when it earns that level of trust. It being completely willing to disarm its populace under the facade of making them safer does not help them in that endeavor.

And that's it, isn't? Everything else? It's white noise. So I'll cut to the heart of it here.
It's easy to see where this cultural disconnect between you and I comes from. Our nations share a colonial master. Your country rebelled against that authority. Mine grew closer and got self-governance and ultimately political independence through a slow, evolutionary process. And so Canadians do not inherently fear government, whereas Americans do. Even their own (yes, I am aware you have libertarians and sovereign citizens in Canada and people who trust the government just fine in the US, I'm talking general trends and descriptions of national character, not getting hung up on exceptions).

As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

[Kowani]

As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Sigged.

[Prydania]

As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Sigged.

Thanks XD
I'll be here all week. Try the veal.

[Telconi]

I was unaware that the argument that children are worth defending was problematic.

Oh get over yourself. Of course they are. When it comes to individual teachers needing to be armed, however? That's a sign that there is a problem.

Are your concerns of being attacked based upon solidly gathered statistical data or fear-mongering? One is a good thing to base policy on, the other is not.

There have been two shootings at synagogues in the past year. And given the state of the country right now? I wouldn't shocked if number three happens before we get to October (the one year mark from the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue shooting). I don't think I'm being unreasonable to be a bit antsy going to Temple myself these days. Nor do I think such anxiety is born of fear mongering. Those two shootings actually happened. Who's to say my synagogue/community won't be next?

You being those things does not make you any less wrong here. It’s a much sadder state of affairs when the supposed solution to people being victimized is to render them defenseless.

The ultimate goal here should be the removal of the element that is victimizing people. In this case? It's the fact that it's apparently legal to walk into Walmart fully armed. Again, I own guns. I take them out of my house when I shoot at the range or go hunting. I don't carry them to go G-ddman grocery shopping.

The government can claim that moral responsibility when it earns that level of trust. It being completely willing to disarm its populace under the facade of making them safer does not help them in that endeavor.

And that's it, isn't? Everything else? It's white noise. So I'll cut to the heart of it here.
It's easy to see where this cultural disconnect between you and I comes from. Our nations share a colonial master. Your country rebelled against that authority. Mine grew closer and got self-governance and ultimately political independence through a slow, evolutionary process. And so Canadians do not inherently fear government, whereas Americans do. Even their own (yes, I am aware you have libertarians and sovereign citizens in Canada and people who trust the government just fine in the US, I'm talking general trends and descriptions of national character, not getting hung up on exceptions).

As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

This is one of those things that I know exists, and yet fundamentally cannot understand how or why.

It truly is a complete cultural disconnect.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

I just don't see how the road the US is on doesn't end with toddlers being dressed in body armour in kindergarten, armoured baby carriages, everyone driving armoured cars, living in little fortresses. Maybe you all want that, but it seems a ridiculous and awful way of life to me. Very far from liberty.

[Ors Might]

I was unaware that the argument that children are worth defending was problematic.

Oh get over yourself. Of course they are. When it comes to individual teachers needing to be armed, however? That's a sign that there is a problem.

Are your concerns of being attacked based upon solidly gathered statistical data or fear-mongering? One is a good thing to base policy on, the other is not.

There have been two shootings at synagogues in the past year. And given the state of the country right now? I wouldn't shocked if number three happens before we get to October (the one year mark from the Pittsburgh Tree of Life synagogue shooting). I don't think I'm being unreasonable to be a bit antsy going to Temple myself these days. Nor do I think such anxiety is born of fear mongering. Those two shootings actually happened. Who's to say my synagogue/community won't be next?

You being those things does not make you any less wrong here. It’s a much sadder state of affairs when the supposed solution to people being victimized is to render them defenseless.

The ultimate goal here should be the removal of the element that is victimizing people. In this case? It's the fact that it's apparently legal to walk into Walmart fully armed. Again, I own guns. I take them out of my house when I shoot at the range or go hunting. I don't carry them to go G-ddman grocery shopping.

The government can claim that moral responsibility when it earns that level of trust. It being completely willing to disarm its populace under the facade of making them safer does not help them in that endeavor.

And that's it, isn't? Everything else? It's white noise. So I'll cut to the heart of it here.
It's easy to see where this cultural disconnect between you and I comes from. Our nations share a colonial master. Your country rebelled against that authority. Mine grew closer and got self-governance and ultimately political independence through a slow, evolutionary process. And so Canadians do not inherently fear government, whereas Americans do. Even their own (yes, I am aware you have libertarians and sovereign citizens in Canada and people who trust the government just fine in the US, I'm talking general trends and descriptions of national character, not getting hung up on exceptions).

As a Canadian? I find Americans and their deep, deep distrust of the government to be fundamentally, critically, laughably flawed. And I say this as someone who is, all and all, quite comfortable and happy in his new life in the US. The humidity's a bit much, but yeah. I like here. Still? I find some aspects of your country completely absurd. The distrust of anything remotely resembling authority is one. The gun problem that stems from that is another.

Alright, I’m going to apologize for that one. Too easy to get unnecessarily snarky.

I’m not trying to dismiss your very real feelings of fear and stress, I’m really not. But they aren’t good foundations for logical arguments. Mass shootings make up a small percentage of gun violence as a whole. Worrying about one happening to you does more harm than good.

Citizens being able to open carry is not the cause of mass shootings, we both know this. There isn’t anything that can prove that means cause motives. And because I’ve been through this sort of debate a lot since I started posting, I also do not think that preventing gun violence is as simple as removing guns from the hands of the mentally, nor do I believe that it’s even a necessary component of any solution.

I’m going to ignore most of this last bit and ask a question. Should my default stance towards entities with immense amounts of power over me, entities that have a history of abusing power, be trust?

[Ors Might]

I just don't see how the road the US is on doesn't end with toddlers being dressed in body armour in kindergarten, armoured baby carriages, everyone driving armoured cars, living in little fortresses. Maybe you all want that, but it seems a ridiculous and awful way of life to me. Very far from liberty.

Aw shit, you found my baby photos.

[Telconi]

I just don't see how the road the US is on doesn't end with toddlers being dressed in body armour in kindergarten, armoured baby carriages, everyone driving armoured cars, living in little fortresses. Maybe you all want that, but it seems a ridiculous and awful way of life to me. Very far from liberty.

Reason, that's how.

[The Chuck]

I just don't see how the road the US is on doesn't end with toddlers being dressed in body armour in kindergarten, armoured baby carriages, everyone driving armoured cars, living in little fortresses. Maybe you all want that, but it seems a ridiculous and awful way of life to me. Very far from liberty.

Aw shit, you found my baby photos.

Your baby photos? Shit, looks like we're long lost twins

[Telconi]

Aw shit, you found my baby photos.

Your baby photos? Shit, looks like we're long lost twins

I have some old home movies of like ten year old me getting tossed around by a Barrett.

[Ors Might]

Aw shit, you found my baby photos.

Your baby photos? Shit, looks like we're long lost twins

Unless you perpetually look and sound like a fifteen year old, I doubt it

[Kowani]

I’m going to ignore most of this last bit and ask a question. Should my default stance towards entities with immense amounts of power over me, entities that have a history of abusing power, be trust?

Here’s the thing. Governments very rarely manage to impose great changes on their citizens without the acceptance of said citizens. (If I’m being pedantic, armies are made up of citizens, but that’s not really what we’re talking about.) And if a government wished to take away ones liberties, the presence of an armed populace wouldn’t stop them. Heck, look at the current octopus state. Mind you, I think it should be bigger, but the presence of an armed populace hasn’t really been a consideration since Shays’ Rebellion. The presence of a gun to resist “tyranny” is useless when nobody has shown themselves willing to resist said tyranny.

[Telconi]

I’m going to ignore most of this last bit and ask a question. Should my default stance towards entities with immense amounts of power over me, entities that have a history of abusing power, be trust?

Here’s the thing. Governments very rarely manage to impose great changes on their citizens without the acceptance of said citizens. (If I’m being pedantic, armies are made up of citizens, but that’s not really what we’re talking about.) And if a government wished to take away ones liberties, the presence of an armed populace wouldn’t stop them. Heck, look at the current octopus state. Mind you, I think it should be bigger, but the presence of an armed populace hasn’t really been a consideration since Shays’ Rebellion. The presence of a gun to resist “tyranny” is useless when nobody has shown themselves willing to resist said tyranny.

TIL civil wars and civil insurgencies are just my imagination.

[Ors Might]

I’m going to ignore most of this last bit and ask a question. Should my default stance towards entities with immense amounts of power over me, entities that have a history of abusing power, be trust?

Here’s the thing. Governments very rarely manage to impose great changes on their citizens without the acceptance of said citizens. (If I’m being pedantic, armies are made up of citizens, but that’s not really what we’re talking about.) And if a government wished to take away ones liberties, the presence of an armed populace wouldn’t stop them. Heck, look at the current octopus state. Mind you, I think it should be bigger, but the presence of an armed populace hasn’t really been a consideration since Shays’ Rebellion. The presence of a gun to resist “tyranny” is useless when nobody has shown themselves willing to resist said tyranny.

You really haven’t presented a convincing argument for not further arming the populace, aside from pointing out a need to get a people motivated before it can present a viable threat.