Mount Shavano wrote:So, my thread moves at a glacial pace but she does move.
Here's a realism review for the Kamooko Class II battleship. First, I want to note that the writeup is very good. I like the detail.
I understand the design year is 1910. That would make her roughly contemporary with the first super-dreadnoughts. 380mm guns would be more in line with the succeeding classes - the British 15"/42 was designed in 1912, the same year as the ship carrying it was laid down - but a fudge of a couple years isn't a big deal. The 38k ton displacement is at least half again what was historically being built in 1910, but is in the right general range for 10x15", heavy armor, and 24 knots, and larger ships were by no means impossible.
You being willing, I would like to ignore the discrepancy in gun size. In regional lore this would have been possible, and even though this comprehensive list is aiming to be historically accurate I would still like to think that these ships could have evolved during actual construction to take advantage of emerging technologies. Placeoderms wasn't exactly rushing them into service in 1910, and while the claim of thirty two ships finally being built is ludicrous it would still make sense from this nation's perspective to build an exceptional number. Eight may have been possible, suggesting hulls being laid down some years later.
But hearing that the Kamooko Class II is on the light side displacement wise is concerning. The ships were supposed to be exceptionally heavy, probably mostly as coastal defence ships. Speed, as far as I am aware, was a secondary concern as the ships were always expected to engage the enemy at one of a few predetermined locations (all of which were very near one another).
Probably the best explanation is this rough map used to represent the frontline of the Votadini War, the main conflict in the WWI period between Placeoderms and Vilhala. The thing to note is that the port on this map is Vilhala's only sea access, and that being one that opens onto a large bay with only one path to open ocean. We haven't really hammered down scales yet in Markion, but most likely on a clear day one would be able to see the Placeodermsian side from Vilhala and vise versa.
Placeoderms ought to also have major ports on this seaway, making it easy for them to supply a fleet, and given Vilhala's massively limited coastline it would only take victory in one major battle to gain superiority and cut the nation off from its overseas allies. For this reason Placeoderms, in lore, intended to build battleships which were extremely large and heavy. Speed and range are in this model largely unimportant, especially with mostly unrelated Placeodermsian rejection of "speed will be our armour" philosophy.
Mount Shavano wrote:The armor scheme is most unrealistic element. 650mm is a massive amount of armor; even Yamato's belt topped out at 410mm. 650mm for a proper belt would be impossible on the given displacement. It's also worth noting that multiple layers would not provide as much protection as a single layer of their combined thickness, and that 45 degrees is a very extreme slope for an armor belt. To my knowledge, no nation used a sloped belt until the 1930s, and those belts only sloped at 15-18 degrees. I'm not an expert on the tradeoffs in this area, but I suspect ship stability would be affected.
Generally, naval engineers would attempt to armor battleships to withstand their own guns at normal combat ranges - this was considered a "balanced" design. If you simply halved the 650mm to 325mm, you would be in a realistic range; the 15" British battleships had a 330 mm belt, but Kamooko II would have better turret armor. I'd also make it a conventional belt rather than steeply inclined and layered.
This does concern me. I'm pretty sure the Kamooko Class II uses the König-Class as a baseline, meaning that the ship became much heavier and more armoured. If I understand, though, the problem is not only that the increase in displacement is far to low to validate the proposed amount of armour but also that the amount of armour stated here would never be possible in a 1910 design. Given my lack of experience in the field (my own nation had only two destroyers in this period), I'm afraid I'm going to need to hear your opinion on what would be the maximum possible displacement and armour thickness.
I am not really sure what Placeoderms meant by this layered armour concept. It is possible they were referring to the real world pre-Jutland approach to deck armour against high explosives, or maybe there was a concern of high explosives being fired at short range against the hull? I can't really think of a reason why this would be a threat.
But regardless, I'm afraid at least some form of "Gar Plating" is going to need to stay. I will also hope you are okay with retaining a slight angling (maybe less than the 15 degrees, even) for an internal citadel. I should stress that this is not an angled belt, but rather angling on the internal armoured box which contains ammunition and other key components. For the most part this is important for me because the region has had a lot of roleplay inside a Placeodermsian palace named in honour of the nation's armour innovations. A large portion of this country's lore was built around the idea of bigger and better armour, as odd as it is.
I don't know if the Kamooko Class II really counts as a "balanced" design. It's supposed to be big, heavy, and slow. The only reason there are not bigger guns on it is that they didn't exist at the time, but if more armour was possible it would have been added.
Mount Shavano wrote:The secondary battery is a bit much. There are three unlikely things here: First, four sizes of gun is a lot. Two would be more realistic. Second, that's a LOT of guns; 51 by my count. The WWI 15" of the British and German navies carried 18 each, the American equivalents 22. It's unlikely she'd have the hull space. Third, having both 152mm and 150mm would be extremely inconvenient. There's nothing a 152 mm gun can do that a 150 mm can't, and vice versa, but you'd have to carry two types of ammo and it would confuse your fall of shot. I'd recommend deleting the 152mm and 128mm guns, and having the 88s replace the 128s in the AA listing. I'd keep the 150s because a nation that uses a true 380mm gun instead of 381mm = 15" would likely also use a 150mm instead of 152mm = 6".
Thanks for your praise for my project and for your contribution to it!
I do agree with this. So the new setup for the secondary armament becomes:
15 x 150mm guns (one is on the centreline for some reason)
12 × 88mm guns (AA)
The AA armament in lore came after intense Vilhalan air attacks started against blockading forces. While largely ineffective, the prospect of not being able to hit the attackers' origin caused much concern. I won't list them, but will also assume rifle-calibre machine guns would have been mounted to further deter aircraft and small craft.
Man, this has taken a lot of my time! I hope I'm not coming across as uncooperative, but I really do want to balance realism with the lore of the region and finally finish coming up with proper statistics for this warship. After all, if a regional WWI roleplay ever kicks off these monsters will be front and centre.