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[DRAFT] Conscription Fairness Act

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18899
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Bears Armed » Mon Aug 05, 2019 7:49 am

Liberimery wrote:
Imperium Anglorum wrote:You can't win a war by defending. At maximum, it would yield a white peace.


The US Revolutionary war, the war of 1812, and the Vietnam war were won by the team playing defense to name three wars. The Russo-Japanese war was a humiliating defeat for Russia, who declared war on the Japanese.
OOC
That's an oversimplified viewpoint -- to put it politely -- all three cases:
In the US Revolutionary War, both sides were the "defending" side to some extent: Don't forget that the British-run administration was not only actually the lawful government but also had the active support of a significant proportion of the colonials right through to the end. Then although the rebels mostly stayed at home (There were one or two attempts to seize Canada, and a small-scale naval raid on civilian shipping in one English harbour), their allies France and Spain and the Netherlands were actively attacking British colonies & ships elsewhere... and, of course, France sent troops overseas into America to fight alongside the rebels.
It's arguable whether the War of 1812 really had a winner at all: Despite what some Americans seem to think, Britain certainly wasn't trying to reconquer the colonies .(And, again, the American attack on Canada wasn't exactly a strictly "defensive" move...)
And in Vietnam the North started as effectively a separate nation from the South in which American forces were helping to suppress rebels, and only succeeded in taking over the South -- which they did by an offensive war -- after the American forces had been withdrawn.
Last edited by Bears Armed on Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:18 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Aclion
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Postby Aclion » Mon Aug 05, 2019 8:40 am

Imperium Anglorum wrote:You can't win a war by defending. At maximum, it would yield a white peace.

White peace is still victory if you get what what you want. Winning wars doesn't requiring conquering the other side.
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Kenmoria
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Postby Kenmoria » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:30 am

(OOC: Are we agreed that the clause should have ‘primarily ’ or similar wording instead of ‘exclusively ’?)
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Marxist Germany
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Postby Marxist Germany » Mon Aug 05, 2019 9:41 am

Araraukar wrote:
Liberimery wrote:The US Revolutionary war, the war of 1812, and the Vietnam war were won by the team playing defense to name three wars. The Russo-Japanese war was a humiliating defeat for Russia, who declared war on the Japanese.

OOC: Also Finland in 2nd World War. (Well, "winning" is always a bit relative, but not getting annexed by Russia - which was Russia's goal - is counted as a win, despite the loss of some areas and reparations required.)

OOC:Irish war of independence too
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Wayneactia
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Postby Wayneactia » Mon Aug 05, 2019 11:30 pm

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Drystar
Secretary
 
Posts: 30
Founded: May 05, 2006
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Postby Drystar » Wed Aug 07, 2019 7:59 am

Bears Armed wrote:
Liberimery wrote:
The US Revolutionary war, the war of 1812, and the Vietnam war were won by the team playing defense to name three wars. The Russo-Japanese war was a humiliating defeat for Russia, who declared war on the Japanese.
OOC
That's an oversimplified viewpoint -- to put it politely -- all three cases:
In the US Revolutionary War, both sides were the "defending" side to some extent: Don't forget that the British-run administration was not only actually the lawful government but also had the active support of a significant proportion of the colonials right through to the end. Then although the rebels mostly stayed at home (There were one or two attempts to seize Canada, and a small-scale naval raid on civilian shipping in one English harbour), their allies France and Spain and the Netherlands were actively attacking British colonies & ships elsewhere... and, of course, France sent troops overseas into America to fight alongside the rebels.
It's arguable whether the War of 1812 really had a winner at all: Despite what some Americans seem to think, Britain certainly wasn't trying to reconquer the colonies .(And, again, the American attack on Canada wasn't exactly a strictly "defensive" move...)
And in Vietnam the North started as effectively a separate nation from the South in which American forces were helping to suppress rebels, and only succeeded in taking over the South -- which they did by an offensive war -- after the American forces had been withdrawn.


You forgot to mention Allied forces were restrained from crossing the border between north and south Vietnam by political decisions. That played a huge role in the North’s ability to outlast US participating.

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Kenmoria
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Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Aug 07, 2019 8:31 am

“For clause 5, many countries are in an almost perpetual state of war, especially if they are rather militaristic in nature. As these are the countries most likely to be using conscription, I suggest reworking the clause.”

(OOC: As an example, the USA has been at constant war since its founding, with only a few days of complete peace.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Araraukar
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Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Aug 07, 2019 5:34 pm

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: As an example, the USA has been at constant war since its founding, with only a few days of complete peace.)

OOC: Which were the peace days? Or what year(s) anyway?
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Kenmoria
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Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Corporate Bordello

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Aug 07, 2019 11:02 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: As an example, the USA has been at constant war since its founding, with only a few days of complete peace.)

OOC: Which were the peace days? Or what year(s) anyway?

(OOC: My mistake, it should have been years not days. The US has been at war 222 of the 239 years it has existed.)
A representative democracy with a parliament of 535 seats
Kenmoria is Laissez-Faire on economy but centre-left on social issues
Located in Europe and border France to the right and Spain below
NS stats and policies are not canon, use the factbooks
Not in the WA despite coincidentally following nearly all resolutions
This is due to a problem with how the WA contradicts democracy
However we do have a WA mission and often participate in drafting
Current ambassador: James Lewitt

For more information, read the factbooks here.

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Araraukar
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14097
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:33 am

Kenmoria wrote:(OOC: My mistake, it should have been years not days. The US has been at war 222 of the 239 years it has existed.)

OOC: To be fair, that only counts entire years, so even if there was a one-day war (there have been shorter ones, just so you know :P), that year wouldn't count. EDIT: Still, amusing.
Last edited by Araraukar on Thu Aug 08, 2019 3:34 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Linda Äyrämäki, acting ambassador in the absence of miss Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk.

Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Araraukar wrote:
Blueflarst wrote:a cosmopolitan hammer
United Massachusetts wrote:Can we all call ourselves "cosmopolitan hammers"?
Us cosmopolitan hammers
Can teach some manners
Often sorely lacking
Hence us attacking
Silly GA spammers

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Bears Armed
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 18899
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Anarchy

Postby Bears Armed » Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:25 am

Kenmoria wrote:
Araraukar wrote:OOC: Which were the peace days? Or what year(s) anyway?

(OOC: My mistake, it should have been years not days. The US has been at war 222 of the 239 years it has existed.)
OOC
Technically that's "been involved in armed conflicts" rather than "been at war", at least if being "at war" is taken to require a declaration of war: The USA hasn't actually declared itself to be at war very often...
Maybe this proposal needs to clarify whether it is only talking about declared wars, rather than conflicts in general?
Last edited by Bears Armed on Thu Aug 08, 2019 7:27 am, edited 1 time in total.
The Confederated Clans of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Our population is approximately 20 million. We do have a national government, although its role is strictly limited. Economy = thriving. Those aren't "biker gangs", they're our traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies'... and are generally respected, not feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152.

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