Or... Keep the policies I like and politicians I like, and keep winning despite losing the popular vote?
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by Bread Herbert » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:18 pm
by Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:18 pm
Ors Might wrote:Kowani wrote:No shit. That’s the thing about large groups of people-someone is always gonna get fucked over. Regardless I how much you “level the playing field”, someone isn’t gonna have their interests met.
Indeed, which is why you introduce protections and balances in order to prevent as much of the fuckening as you can.
by Pacomia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:18 pm
Salus Maior wrote:Pacomia wrote:Normally, I’m in full support of states making their own laws and having as much power as possible, but this is just ridiculous. When an elector votes against their people they are not only failing to do their job, but also undermining democracy. It’s just dumb.
Then I guess if the people have a problem with it, they can make laws on it.
by Salus Maior » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:18 pm
by New haven america » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:19 pm
Arlenton wrote:New haven america wrote:Because part of the reason it was made was continue the disenfranchisement of slaves in the South.
If the South actually considered black people as, you know, people, then it would've gotten equal representation in Congress during the early days of the country, but they didn't, hence their population was counted as lower than the North's. They got all uppity about that and the person who invented the EC had to make it so they got equal say while also allowing them to continue having slavery.
The Southern slave owners wanted slaves to count as full people. Northerners did not want them counted at all.
by Bread Herbert » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:20 pm
by Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:20 pm
by Ors Might » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:21 pm
Kowani wrote:Ors Might wrote:Indeed, which is why you introduce protections and balances in order to prevent as much of the fuckening as you can.
If the EC did that, you might have a point.Ors Might wrote:False. The majority isn’t able to vote on whether asians can be considered human. That does not make this a minority rule of asians.
I mean, it is. Constitutional amendments are a thing. The fact is that the majority considers Asians to be human, because we’re not racist fuckheads.
by Arlenton » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:21 pm
New haven america wrote:Arlenton wrote:The Southern slave owners wanted slaves to count as full people. Northerners did not want them counted at all.
Uh, no, it went more like this:The North "Welp, we've successfully drafted up this Constitution and Congressional system, congrats everyone!"
Everyone: "Yay!"
The North: "Yep, looks like everything is equal... oh, sorry South, you don't have equal representation, you don't count your slaves as people, sorry."
The South: "That is horrendous ya'll, we deserve equal representation just like everyone else. Ya'll wanna know what? Fine count them!"
The North: "Oh, well, that's great! So we'll just count them as citizens, and give them equal representation under the law, tax obligations, the ability to own land and work as they wish-"
The South: "Wait just one gosh darn minute! I never said they can be people, they're not people, they're slaves and they should be treated as such!"
The North: "*sigh* Fine, if want to keep slave then you can, but you're not counting them as people and that means you don't get equal representation. So do you suppose we fix this"
The South: "Hm..."
And that's how The 3/5's Compromise and a massive part of the EC (As well as not trusting the voting population) was made.
by Salus Maior » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:21 pm
by Pacomia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:23 pm
by Salus Maior » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:23 pm
by New haven america » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:23 pm
Arlenton wrote:New haven america wrote:Uh, no, it went more like this:The North "Welp, we've successfully drafted up this Constitution and Congressional system, congrats everyone!"
Everyone: "Yay!"
The North: "Yep, looks like everything is equal... oh, sorry South, you don't have equal representation, you don't count your slaves as people, sorry."
The South: "That is horrendous ya'll, we deserve equal representation just like everyone else. Ya'll wanna know what? Fine count them!"
The North: "Oh, well, that's great! So we'll just count them as citizens, and give them equal representation under the law, tax obligations, the ability to own land and work as they wish-"
The South: "Wait just one gosh darn minute! I never said they can be people, they're not people, they're slaves and they should be treated as such!"
The North: "*sigh* Fine, if want to keep slave then you can, but you're not counting them as people and that means you don't get equal representation. So do you suppose we fix this"
The South: "Hm..."
And that's how The 3/5's Compromise and a massive part of the EC (As well as not trusting the voting population) was made.
So basically what I said. Wanting to treat slaves as people only to get more representation, but not in any way else.
Kind of reminds me of sanctuary cities.
by Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:25 pm
Ors Might wrote:Kowani wrote:If the EC did that, you might have a point.
I mean, it is. Constitutional amendments are a thing. The fact is that the majority considers Asians to be human, because we’re not racist fuckheads.
Let it be known that I don’t support the Electoral College for exactly that reason.
Friendly reminder that that is a fairly recent change for the majority.
by GlobalControl » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:26 pm
Bread Herbert wrote:The Electoral college is the system of electing the president of the United States of America.
In my opinion it is very undemocratic. The electoral college has lead to electing a president 4 times without the majority of the voters.
This site also shows how you can win the elections with 22% of the popular vote.
https://www.squarefree.com/2004/11/01/w ... ular-vote/
In my opinion the electoral college should be abolished and replaced by the popular vote the candidate with the most votes win.
NS , what is your opinion?
by Arlenton » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:26 pm
by Ors Might » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:28 pm
by Pacomia » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:28 pm
Arlenton wrote:Kowani wrote:Except for the fact that you lose most of the time.
1994 win
1996 loss
1998 loss
2000 win
2002 win
2004 win
2006 loss
2008 loss
2010 win
2012 loss
2014 win
2016 win
2018 loss (partial win because of the Senate, but for the sake of the argument I'll say a loss)
So nope. Since I've been around, the party I support has 7 wins and 6 losses.
by Arlenton » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:30 pm
New haven america wrote:Arlenton wrote:So basically what I said. Wanting to treat slaves as people only to get more representation, but not in any way else.
Kind of reminds me of sanctuary cities.
No, the North was okay wit them being counted as people, but the South didn't want that as that would mean they'd be allowed all the rights and freedoms of regular American citizens at the time, and they threw a hissy fit because the North wasn't letting them have their way. You don't get to have slaves count as full people but not give them the rights of people.
by New haven america » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:31 pm
Pacomia wrote:Arlenton wrote:
1994 win
1996 loss
1998 loss
2000 win
2002 win
2004 win
2006 loss
2008 loss
2010 win
2012 loss
2014 win
2016 win
2018 loss (partial win because of the Senate, but for the sake of the argument I'll say a loss)
So nope. Since I've been around, the party I support has 7 wins and 6 losses.
Okay, so we learn you’re a Republican. Just a quick question, would you be supporting the EC if it suddenly turned around and started benefiting Democrats?
by Arlenton » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:33 pm
Pacomia wrote:Arlenton wrote:
1994 win
1996 loss
1998 loss
2000 win
2002 win
2004 win
2006 loss
2008 loss
2010 win
2012 loss
2014 win
2016 win
2018 loss (partial win because of the Senate, but for the sake of the argument I'll say a loss)
So nope. Since I've been around, the party I support has 7 wins and 6 losses.
Okay, so we learn you’re a Republican. Just a quick question, would you be supporting the EC if it suddenly turned around and started benefiting Democrats?
by New haven america » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:33 pm
Arlenton wrote:New haven america wrote:No, the North was okay wit them being counted as people, but the South didn't want that as that would mean they'd be allowed all the rights and freedoms of regular American citizens at the time, and they threw a hissy fit because the North wasn't letting them have their way. You don't get to have slaves count as full people but not give them the rights of people.
1. No. The North was not ok with them being counted for representation lmfao. 2. Counting non-voting slaves gave extra representation to the slave states.
by Kowani » Wed Jul 24, 2019 11:33 pm
Arlenton wrote:Kowani wrote:Except for the fact that you lose most of the time.
1994 win
1996 loss
1998 loss
2000 win
2002 win
2004 win
2006 loss
2008 loss
2010 win
2012 loss
2014 win
2016 win
2018 loss (partial win because of the Senate, but for the sake of the argument I'll say a loss)
So nope. Since I've been around, the party I support has 7 wins and 6 losses.
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