Tribalism. The Good, The Bad, and the Other.

[The Emerald Legion]

So, having a discussion on the subject previously, I figured a thread on it was warranted. Now personally, Tribalism is simple fact. Any sensible society is built on it. People form in groups and outgroups even where none existed before based on any number of differences. Even differences as relatively minor as 'I met these people first.'

Add on the force of Dunbars number, and you end up with a situation where any attempt at non Tribalistic social grouping is inevitably going to be building little more than a sociopathic beauracracy. With successful large societies in essence being a Tribal Chain. Where Bob knows Jeff, Jeff knows Greg, and Greg knows Rob. And thus, Rob and Bob can work together due to sharing a Tribal facet. But their interactions can become volatile outside of such a setting.

So, thoughts NSG?

[EastKekistan]

So, having a discussion on the subject previously, I figured a thread on it was warranted. Now personally, Tribalism is simple fact. Any sensible society is built on it. People form in groups and outgroups even where none existed before based on any number of differences. Even differences as relatively minor as 'I met these people first.'

Add on the force of Dunbars number, and you end up with a situation where any attempt at non Tribalistic social grouping is inevitably going to be building little more than a sociopathic beauracracy. With successful large societies in essence being a Tribal Chain. Where Bob knows Jeff, Jeff knows Greg, and Greg knows Rob. And thus, Rob and Bob can work together due to sharing a Tribal facet. But their interactions can become volatile outside of such a setting.

So, thoughts NSG?

Your analysis is largely correct unless we have transhumanism.

[The Lone Alliance]

I think the lack of understanding that humans are tribal are inheritaly part of the problem with the world today, too many people have this naive belief that humanity can move beyond tribalism or that we could create some sort of "Global tribe" but that's just not how we are wired.

It's why I do not believe that we will ever have a global government unless said global government ends up dominated by a single quasi tribe oppressing all the others.

[Ifreann]

People, as children, are taught that they are part of a tribe of millions, tens of millions, even hundreds of millions, even over a billion.

Clearly it follows that it is impossible for people to learn to think of themselves as part of a single tribe comprising all people.

[The Emerald Legion]

People, as children, are taught that they are part of a tribe of millions, tens of millions, even hundreds of millions, even over a billion.

Clearly it follows that it is impossible for people to learn to think of themselves as part of a single tribe comprising all people.

Incorrect. While ideals and identity can make larger allegiences possible, it doesn't mean they consider the entire nation their tribe. It means they consider the ideal of the nation as part of their tribe and that in and of itself can become a source of conflict.

[Chan Island]

People, as children, are taught that they are part of a tribe of millions, tens of millions, even hundreds of millions, even over a billion.

Clearly it follows that it is impossible for people to learn to think of themselves as part of a single tribe comprising all people.

Pretty much this. We have little to no information on the counterfactual of what happens when you raise people to not consider tribalism at all, or that everyone is a member of the same tribe (the tribe of humanity). Until we have that, it's impossible to say if tribalism is inherently a part of human nature, or merely a dominant cultural phenomenon that wiped out opposing notions thousands of years ago.

In the meantime, I say that tribalism is stupid. 9 times out of 10 it is a cause of bad things, not good.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Does anybody in a modern society really see themselves as a member of just one tribe? You've got your work tribe, family tribe, music tribe, sports tribe, social tribe...

[Fartsniffage]

Does anybody in a modern society really see themselves as a member of just one tribe? You've got your work tribe, family tribe, music tribe, sports tribe, social tribe...

I agree with you, we are therefore both a part of the same tribe tribe.

[The Emerald Legion]

Does anybody in a modern society really see themselves as a member of just one tribe? You've got your work tribe, family tribe, music tribe, sports tribe, social tribe...

Not particularly. You're trying to view tribes as external.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

Does anybody in a modern society really see themselves as a member of just one tribe? You've got your work tribe, family tribe, music tribe, sports tribe, social tribe...

Not particularly. You're trying to view tribes as external.

I have no idea what you mean.

[Kowani]

Does anybody in a modern society really see themselves as a member of just one tribe? You've got your work tribe, family tribe, music tribe, sports tribe, social tribe...

Not particularly. You're trying to view tribes as external.

Most people do see them that way.

[The Emerald Legion]

Not particularly. You're trying to view tribes as external.

Most people do see them that way.

Because most people view Tribes as primitive savages and don't think about the actual meaning of Tribalism.

Your Tribe is just the people you know and maintain relationships with.

[Khataiy]

Tribalism is part of human nature, its a very important part of many cultures and societies and should be respected.

[Ifreann]

Most people do see them that way.

Because most people view Tribes as primitive savages and don't think about the actual meaning of Tribalism.

Your Tribe is just the people you know and maintain relationships with.

So you have work relationships, family relationships, music relationships, sports relationships, social relationships.

[EastKekistan]

Tribalism is part of human nature, its a very important part of many cultures and societies and should be respected.

That's why we should reserve most of the world for trad ethnostates and let all authoritarians and collectivists live there.

I prefer Singapores and do not want authoritarians and collectivists to ruin Singapores.

[The Emerald Legion]

Because most people view Tribes as primitive savages and don't think about the actual meaning of Tribalism.

Your Tribe is just the people you know and maintain relationships with.

So you have work relationships, family relationships, music relationships, sports relationships, social relationships.

Not really?

[EastKekistan]

Because most people view Tribes as primitive savages and don't think about the actual meaning of Tribalism.

Your Tribe is just the people you know and maintain relationships with.

So you have work relationships, family relationships, music relationships, sports relationships, social relationships.

Then you are unusually non-tribalist. You belong to Singapore, not Japan.

[Ifreann]

So you have work relationships, family relationships, music relationships, sports relationships, social relationships.

Not really?

Do you seriously only have one social circle? That's bizarre.

---

So you have work relationships, family relationships, music relationships, sports relationships, social relationships.

Then you are unusually non-tribalist. You belong to Singapore, not Japan.

Not even close.

[Kowani]

Tribalism is part of human nature, its a very important part of many cultures and societies and should be respected.

So was rape.

[The Emerald Legion]

Not really?

Do you seriously only have one social circle? That's bizarre.

---

Then you are unusually non-tribalist. You belong to Singapore, not Japan.

Not even close.

A social circle and a tribe are different. You can know and socialize with a person without considering them a part of your tribe.

Tribalism is part of human nature, its a very important part of many cultures and societies and should be respected.

That's why we should reserve most of the world for trad ethnostates and let all authoritarians and collectivists live there.

I prefer Singapores and do not want authoritarians and collectivists to ruin Singapores.

How does "People will form in groups and out groups based on nearly any factor whatsoever." Lead to a need for Ethnostates?

[EastKekistan]

Do you seriously only have one social circle? That's bizarre.

---

Not even close.

A social circle and a tribe are different. You can know and socialize with a person without considering them a part of your tribe.

That's why we should reserve most of the world for trad ethnostates and let all authoritarians and collectivists live there.

I prefer Singapores and do not want authoritarians and collectivists to ruin Singapores.

How does "People will form in groups and out groups based on nearly any factor whatsoever." Lead to a need for Ethnostates?

I don't like tribe-minded, authoritarian and collectivistic people at all. However since they are so numerous let's let them have most of the world to practice their traditionalism, authoritarianism or whatever.

Just leave us a few free cities where they can't bother us. Yeah we can call it "self-segregation from authoritarians".

[Khataiy]

Tribalism is part of human nature, its a very important part of many cultures and societies and should be respected.

So was rape.

Not even close.

[EastKekistan]

So was rape.

Not even close.

That's culture-dependent. In some Pacific Islands maybe both are very natural, so is murder.

[Heloin]

Do you seriously only have one social circle? That's bizarre.

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Not even close.

A social circle and a tribe are different. You can know and socialize with a person without considering them a part of your tribe.

Is it though? Sports fans are definitely part of a Tribal structure, one's family is very easily just a small tribe. Then even that someone can consider themselves part of more then one national tribe.

A social circle and a tribe are different. You can know and socialize with a person without considering them a part of your tribe.



How does "People will form in groups and out groups based on nearly any factor whatsoever." Lead to a need for Ethnostates?

I don't like tribe-minded, authoritarian and collectivistic people at all. However since they are so numerous let's let them have most of the world to practice their traditionalism, authoritarianism or whatever.

Just leave us a few free cities where they can't bother us. Yeah we can call it "self-segregation from authoritarians".

We all appreciate the sacrifice you ivory tower intellects make for the rest of us.

[An Alan Smithee Nation]

You can know and socialize with a person without considering them a part of your tribe.

I still don't know what you mean by your tribe then. Is this all some veiled white supremacist thread?