New US Sanctions on Cuba - and Venezuela related discuss

[Novus America]

Well I object to our current system with Cuba. We should ban all Cuban protects in the US, BUT allow any non military, non security goods to be sold to Cuba.

This would give us a huge trade surplus with Cuba, and more leverage.
We could try the same with Venezuela as well.

lol, I cant believe this post is coming from you Novus America, as I think I have just proven, trade, tourists and diplomatic relations don't work with Cuba or Venezuela, the only thing they understand and respect is force. Cuba has to be forced out of Venezuela, not diplomatic talk, talk, talk, blah, blah, blah, like Maduro is doing.

Oh well this is what I have always said. See what I am proposing is not really trade per se because it would be purely one sided in favor of the US. We let them buy non military, non security stuff from us, but buy nothing from them in return.

We would actually be thus putting more pressure on them.

We continue to make it impossible for them to sell stuff to us, keep up the sanctions on their exports, but NOT our exports to them.

Which is what we already do with Venezuela, they can buy stuff from us, just not sell much to us anymore.

I am not talking Obama style empty “talks” but hard ball diplomacy and the extraction of concessions using leverage.

They respect nothing but force, but economic leverage can still be used.

[US-SSR]

Cuba: return to a policy of engagement in which human and political rights are still live issues but without vain attempts to starve out a regime that has survived the worst we could throw at it since the 1960s.

Venezuela: working with our allies, open talks aimed at new elections under international observation, providing assurances to all sides against reprisals. In the meantime do everything possible to relieve the material suffering of the Venezuelan people. Note this is in contrast to the current policy of using Venezuelan babies as hostages in a, again vain, attempt to bully the Maduro regime into leaving. Also that we'd have to put away any fantasies of quick, bloodless (to us) regime change.

There you go.

Sources: Cubadebate, sorry it is in Spanish, I am trying to find the English version from Cubadebate or other government source to post on this post. http://www.cubadebate.cu/especiales/201 ... RZsjXdFy75

English Source: https://oncubanews.com/en/cuba/cubans-l ... nvestment/

For obvious reasons, from my personal political perspective as a native Cuban and Cuban American citizen, my interpretation is, you mean the same current policy of Canada, the EU Nations, the Hispanic nations, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, and almost all nations of the world, trade, tourists, and diplomatic talk, talk, talk, blah, blah, blah, on human rights that have not changed the nature of the eternal revolutionary Cuban military dictatorship regime for obvious reasons, the same can be said of Venezuela under Nicolás Maduro, no wonder a one nation embargo doesn't work, lol, I am having a lol attack.

Including President Obama's attempt to improve US, Cuba, economic, political, and tourist relations with the Cuban regime despite the one nation embargo.

Now the Cuban regime is so desperate for foreign investments, it wants Cuban immigrants to other nations to invest in Cuba, if it were not for the US embargo, Cuban American exiles could invest in Cuba, but my family in Cuba cant invest in Cuba even if I send them the money through family remittances, lol I am having a lot attack.

After they have called us, anti social, anti democratic, anti revolutionary, gusano worms, escoria scums, Cuban American Miami Mafia elements, La Gusanera of Miami, including myself, but they still wont let my family in Cuba invest in Cuba, lol I am having a lol attack.

The so called voluntary labor on state farms until our immigration visas were approved by other nations, confiscation of all properties in the house or room for the revolution, not even our family living their could have access to, throwing eggs at Cuban immigrants by the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution CDRs repudiation brigades, while the police looked on and did nothing, no wonder their is an egg shortage in Cuba, the Cuban political prisoners, toured, executed and exiled, now they want us to invest in Cuba, but our families in Cuba cant invest in Cuba, even if I send them the money, lol.

The new democratic Cuban constitution only recognizes the Cuban communist party as the only political party, and they call us the real hardline intransigents, lol, poll options 9 and 10.

Maduro will never recognize free multi political party elections it might win or it might loose, lol, the only thing that needs to be negotiated is the end of Maduro and his supporters in power, this thread is also about Venezuela due to Cuba's support and protection of Maduro, poll options 3 and 4, but if I were Maduro I would do what he is doing right now, diplomatic, talk, talk, talk, blah, blah, blah, while enjoying his eternal millionaire term in power, and I think we would all say and do the same if we were them, the Cuban and Venezuelan undemocratic regimes.

Any pro and con votes, posts, views and comments are welcomed from any fellow nationstaters.

The OP, GMS LHC

No te preocupes amigo, I skimmed it in Spanish but it's mostly a pretty technical and not entirely informative list of requirements for investing in Cuba. I don't even invest in like Argentina anymore, so no thanks. But why shouldn't anyone who wants to send money that way and is willing to accept the risks, political and otherwise; or anyone who wants to visit on a cruise ship or in a private home, not be able to? With your history you have to recognize that the Cuban government has faced a lot worse situations -- like right after the collapse of the Soviet Union -- and survived. How does cracking down now, economically or otherwise, make any sense? We let people invest in countries with regimes that are no better than Cuba's: China, Egypt and Saudi Arabia spring to mind. Why should Cuba be so special?

I remember a time people said the Sandinistas in Nicaragua would never agree to free and fair elections that might remove them from power. But in 1990, after years of persuasion in cooperation with our allies, they did, and at least for a time they were out of power. Why can't that work in Venezuela? How does a total economic and social collapse there, which may be coming soon, serve anyone's interests at all?

[Novus America]

Sources: Cubadebate, sorry it is in Spanish, I am trying to find the English version from Cubadebate or other government source to post on this post. http://www.cubadebate.cu/especiales/201 ... RZsjXdFy75

English Source: https://oncubanews.com/en/cuba/cubans-l ... nvestment/

For obvious reasons, from my personal political perspective as a native Cuban and Cuban American citizen, my interpretation is, you mean the same current policy of Canada, the EU Nations, the Hispanic nations, Japan, New Zealand, Australia, and almost all nations of the world, trade, tourists, and diplomatic talk, talk, talk, blah, blah, blah, on human rights that have not changed the nature of the eternal revolutionary Cuban military dictatorship regime for obvious reasons, the same can be said of Venezuela under Nicolás Maduro, no wonder a one nation embargo doesn't work, lol, I am having a lol attack.

Including President Obama's attempt to improve US, Cuba, economic, political, and tourist relations with the Cuban regime despite the one nation embargo.

Now the Cuban regime is so desperate for foreign investments, it wants Cuban immigrants to other nations to invest in Cuba, if it were not for the US embargo, Cuban American exiles could invest in Cuba, but my family in Cuba cant invest in Cuba even if I send them the money through family remittances, lol I am having a lot attack.

After they have called us, anti social, anti democratic, anti revolutionary, gusano worms, escoria scums, Cuban American Miami Mafia elements, La Gusanera of Miami, including myself, but they still wont let my family in Cuba invest in Cuba, lol I am having a lol attack.

The so called voluntary labor on state farms until our immigration visas were approved by other nations, confiscation of all properties in the house or room for the revolution, not even our family living their could have access to, throwing eggs at Cuban immigrants by the Committees for the Defense of the Revolution CDRs repudiation brigades, while the police looked on and did nothing, no wonder their is an egg shortage in Cuba, the Cuban political prisoners, toured, executed and exiled, now they want us to invest in Cuba, but our families in Cuba cant invest in Cuba, even if I send them the money, lol.

The new democratic Cuban constitution only recognizes the Cuban communist party as the only political party, and they call us the real hardline intransigents, lol, poll options 9 and 10.

Maduro will never recognize free multi political party elections it might win or it might loose, lol, the only thing that needs to be negotiated is the end of Maduro and his supporters in power, this thread is also about Venezuela due to Cuba's support and protection of Maduro, poll options 3 and 4, but if I were Maduro I would do what he is doing right now, diplomatic, talk, talk, talk, blah, blah, blah, while enjoying his eternal millionaire term in power, and I think we would all say and do the same if we were them, the Cuban and Venezuelan undemocratic regimes.

Any pro and con votes, posts, views and comments are welcomed from any fellow nationstaters.

The OP, GMS LHC

No te preocupes amigo, I skimmed it in Spanish but it's mostly a pretty technical and not entirely informative list of requirements for investing in Cuba. I don't even invest in like Argentina anymore, so no thanks. But why shouldn't anyone who wants to send money that way and is willing to accept the risks, political and otherwise; or anyone who wants to visit on a cruise ship or in a private home, not be able to? With your history you have to recognize that the Cuban government has faced a lot worse situations -- like right after the collapse of the Soviet Union -- and survived. How does cracking down now, economically or otherwise, make any sense? We let people invest in countries with regimes that are no better than Cuba's: China, Egypt and Saudi Arabia spring to mind. Why should Cuba be so special?

I remember a time people said the Sandinistas in Nicaragua would never agree to free and fair elections that might remove them from power. But in 1990, after years of persuasion in cooperation with our allies, they did, and at least for a time they were out of power. Why can't that work in Venezuela? How does a total economic and social collapse there, which may be coming soon, serve anyone's interests at all?

First of all we should sanction the hell out of the PRC.
Trade and investment with them was a horrible idea.
Second you do realize that the way we got the Sandanistas to agree to elections was not making concessions to them, but via sanctions, funding and supporting rebels and extreme pressure, right?

[Cappuccina]

No te preocupes amigo, I skimmed it in Spanish but it's mostly a pretty technical and not entirely informative list of requirements for investing in Cuba. I don't even invest in like Argentina anymore, so no thanks. But why shouldn't anyone who wants to send money that way and is willing to accept the risks, political and otherwise; or anyone who wants to visit on a cruise ship or in a private home, not be able to? With your history you have to recognize that the Cuban government has faced a lot worse situations -- like right after the collapse of the Soviet Union -- and survived. How does cracking down now, economically or otherwise, make any sense? We let people invest in countries with regimes that are no better than Cuba's: China, Egypt and Saudi Arabia spring to mind. Why should Cuba be so special?

I remember a time people said the Sandinistas in Nicaragua would never agree to free and fair elections that might remove them from power. But in 1990, after years of persuasion in cooperation with our allies, they did, and at least for a time they were out of power. Why can't that work in Venezuela? How does a total economic and social collapse there, which may be coming soon, serve anyone's interests at all?

First of all we should sanction the hell out of the PRC.
Trade and investment with them was a horrible idea.
Second you do realize that the way we got the Sandanistas to agree to elections was not making concessions to them, but via sanctions, funding and supporting rebels and extreme pressure, right?

Lol, it's a bit too late to try sanctioning China. The best way to combat them is to counter their expanding economic influence in the third world.

[Novus America]

First of all we should sanction the hell out of the PRC.
Trade and investment with them was a horrible idea.
Second you do realize that the way we got the Sandanistas to agree to elections was not making concessions to them, but via sanctions, funding and supporting rebels and extreme pressure, right?

Lol, it's a bit too late to try sanctioning China. The best way to combat them is to counter their expanding economic influence in the third world.

The best way to counter their influence is sanctions though...

[-Ocelot-]

An old Russian joke, from the Soviet era _

Q: "What has two hundred feet, and eats cabbage?"
A: "The queue at a Moscow butcher's shop."

lol, and the Russians continue to support the Cuban regime, than again, so do the Hispanic nations, the EU nations and the world, the same democratic capitalist style nations who oppose Maduro in Venezuela, lol go figure? The Russians also support Maduro in Venezuela.

They support them for different reasons. Russia wants to help anyone who can create more chaos and destabilize it's enemies, including many dictators worldwide. For Russia, Maduro causing chaos in the region in perpetuity is a blessing, even if it means the death of Venezuelans.

[Greater Miami Shores and La Habana Cuba]

When will the Cuban government lift the economic embargo blockade on the Cuban people, when will the Cuban government let the Cuban people invest in Cuba, when will the Cuban government let my family still in Cuba invest in Cuba? That is the real economic embargo blockade.

The OP GMS LHC Alberto.

[Cedoria]

Anyone expecting to move back into their family's old house in Havana after the overthrow of the Cuban government is deluding themselves. Here's how this works, including for big companies (think oil) that get nationalized. Any favorable judgments get rolled up into a big ball and included in a global settlement of differences and are paid off at pennies (if that much) on the dollar. Check a little history and you'll find that's about right. Helms Burton is a scam and a fraud...iow right up this administration's alley.

I want my 3 bedroom, 2 bath house, with a stone and fenced front porch, and a small two floor house we built in the stone walled back yard. I want the family farm back where I used to ride horses and eat mangos under the big mango tree, I want the family hotel, restaurant and bar back.

I want the 5 family style restaurants of Voltaire, the rich upper class Padrino of my family in Cuba, and the investments he had in many other businesses in Cuba, today I would have been the General Manager CEO of the five restaurants, I would have turned into a major chain of restaurants in Cuba and Miami.

Not going to happen for you.

[US-SSR]

When will the Cuban government lift the economic embargo blockade on the Cuban people, when will the Cuban government let the Cuban people invest in Cuba, when will the Cuban government let my family still in Cuba invest in Cuba? That is the real economic embargo blockade.

The OP GMS LHC Alberto.

Not for as long as they can credibly blame all their problems on the US government's hostility.

[Novus America]

When will the Cuban government lift the economic embargo blockade on the Cuban people, when will the Cuban government let the Cuban people invest in Cuba, when will the Cuban government let my family still in Cuba invest in Cuba? That is the real economic embargo blockade.

The OP GMS LHC Alberto.

Not for as long as they can credibly blame all their problems on the US government's hostility.

Well it is not credible to blame the US for it all, even if some people fall for it.
But they could easily end US hostility by allowing free and fair elections and protecting political and civil liberties.