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Charlottesville attacker gets life sentence

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West Leas Oros 2
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Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:24 am

Greater Cesnica wrote:
Ifreann wrote:Yes.

The thing is he was really good at escaping prison. And he killed after doing so. But I understand where your opposition comes from.

Those are the sorts of skills that are sadly, hardly ever used for good.
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:45 am

Necroghastia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Oh but you see it's better he ends up costing thousands of dollars per year cuz killing is bad m'kay?


Please read the thread again, we already went over how giving the death penalty costs even more than life imprisonment.


Please read the thread again and how that's an injustice as bad as just summarily executing people is.

This is not a defense, it's a sign your side has managed to tilt the game to make it easier to indulge their own petty phobias at the price of Justice.
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Postby Gormwood » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:51 am

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Please read the thread again, we already went over how giving the death penalty costs even more than life imprisonment.


Please read the thread again and how that's an injustice as bad as just summarily executing people is.

This is not a defense, it's a sign your side has managed to tilt the game to make it easier to indulge their own petty phobias at the price of Justice.

So you want him released immediately.
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-Astoria
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Postby -Astoria » Mon Jul 01, 2019 9:55 am

Now this is good news.

Justice has been served.

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Postby East African Unitary State » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:22 am

Here's a radical idea, don't plow your car to a bunch of protester.
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Postby Agarntrop » Mon Jul 01, 2019 11:31 am

Good. Persons over 21 who conduct murders for an ideological cause, murder children or more than one person using premeditation, abduction or sexual or sadist conduct, murder when they have been previously convicted of murder or murder an on-duty police or prison officer receive life without parole where I come from. This fitted into the first category.
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Postby Necroghastia » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:22 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Please read the thread again, we already went over how giving the death penalty costs even more than life imprisonment.


Please read the thread again and how that's an injustice as bad as just summarily executing people is.

This is not a defense, it's a sign your side has managed to tilt the game to make it easier to indulge their own petty phobias at the price of Justice.


Repeating that prison time is an injustice does not an argument make.
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Mon Jul 01, 2019 12:36 pm

Well, I don't like life imprisonment in general, so I wouldn't have given it to him. That being said, if anyone deserves it it's him, so I'm going to pick my battles and say good, if life imprisonment is something you do.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:37 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Please read the thread again and how that's an injustice as bad as just summarily executing people is.

This is not a defense, it's a sign your side has managed to tilt the game to make it easier to indulge their own petty phobias at the price of Justice.


Repeating that prison time is an injustice does not an argument make.


Neither does disregarding the argument to attack a different one.

The argument is that Life Imprisonment is of equal consequence to the death sentence and should face similar procedural hurdles. The lack of these hurdles is no less unjust than 'Saving time' and shooting suspects in the face when implicated.

Gormwood wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Please read the thread again and how that's an injustice as bad as just summarily executing people is.

This is not a defense, it's a sign your side has managed to tilt the game to make it easier to indulge their own petty phobias at the price of Justice.

So you want him released immediately.


I would prefer he be executed. Preferably by a family member of the victim who wished to, but that's not entirely necessary.
Last edited by The Emerald Legion on Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:39 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Necroghastia wrote:
Repeating that prison time is an injustice does not an argument make.


Neither does disregarding the argument to attack a different one.

The argument is that Life Imprisonment is of equal consequence to the death sentence and should face similar procedural hurdles. The lack of these hurdles is no less unjust than 'Saving time' and shooting suspects in the face when implicated.

Is this a world in which the Innocence Project doesn't exists and people can be raised from the dead if a mistake is discovered?
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:42 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Neither does disregarding the argument to attack a different one.

The argument is that Life Imprisonment is of equal consequence to the death sentence and should face similar procedural hurdles. The lack of these hurdles is no less unjust than 'Saving time' and shooting suspects in the face when implicated.

Is this a world in which the Innocence Project doesn't exists and people can be raised from the dead if a mistake is discovered?


Given people who are given life in prison face far fewer procedural hurdles, it's kinda interesting that most of the people who end up aquitted by such.... Are those who faced life in prison rather than the death penalty.

Can you give them decades of their life back? With some manner of youth serum or time machine perhaps?
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:46 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Is this a world in which the Innocence Project doesn't exists and people can be raised from the dead if a mistake is discovered?


Given people who are given life in prison face far fewer procedural hurdles, it's kinda interesting that most of the people who end up aquitted by such.... Are those who faced life in prison rather than the death penalty.

Can you give them decades of their life back? With some manner of youth serum or time machine perhaps?

Are you able to raise the dead?
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:48 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Given people who are given life in prison face far fewer procedural hurdles, it's kinda interesting that most of the people who end up aquitted by such.... Are those who faced life in prison rather than the death penalty.

Can you give them decades of their life back? With some manner of youth serum or time machine perhaps?

Are you able to raise the dead?


Are you able to turn back time?
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:52 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:Are you able to raise the dead?


Are you able to turn back time?

That would certainly make one able to raise the dead, but alas no. But an alive person can be released. A dead person remains dead. Certainly you see the qualitative difference.
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The Emerald Legion
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Postby The Emerald Legion » Mon Jul 01, 2019 2:57 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Are you able to turn back time?

That would certainly make one able to raise the dead, but alas no. But an alive person can be released. A dead person remains dead. Certainly you see the qualitative difference.


Not particularly. If I was locked up for twenty years, is it really the same me coming out?

In either case, you're the one arguing it should be easier to lock people up forever without proving beyond a doubt they deserve it... Because killing people is bad or something.

Your argument is literal nonsense, unless taken as 'Yes this is deliberately unfair because we don't want executions at all but lack the ability to make it happen.'
"I must play this game by my rules/ I will conquer the world with my tools/ All my machines are made for destruction/ I will build my empire/ I will succeed and you will see/ With my machines there is no retreat." ~ E.G.G.M.A.N.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:00 pm

The Emerald Legion wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:That would certainly make one able to raise the dead, but alas no. But an alive person can be released. A dead person remains dead. Certainly you see the qualitative difference.


Not particularly. If I was locked up for twenty years, is it really the same me coming out?

It's far more you than a re-animated corpse.
The Emerald Legion wrote:In either case, you're the one arguing it should be easier to lock people up forever without proving beyond a doubt they deserve it... Because killing people is bad or something.

No, I'm arguing that a person who is still alive can be exonerated in a meaningful manner far easier than a dead person without the use of the word 'posthumously.'
The Emerald Legion wrote:Your argument is literal nonsense, unless taken as 'Yes this is deliberately unfair because we don't want executions at all but lack the ability to make it happen.'

Well, the one you invented is, sure.
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Agarntrop
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Postby Agarntrop » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:11 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I don't like life imprisonment in general, so I wouldn't have given it to him. That being said, if anyone deserves it it's him, so I'm going to pick my battles and say good, if life imprisonment is something you do.

Why are you against life imprisonment?
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:17 pm

Agarntrop wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I don't like life imprisonment in general, so I wouldn't have given it to him. That being said, if anyone deserves it it's him, so I'm going to pick my battles and say good, if life imprisonment is something you do.

Why are you against life imprisonment?

It probably (I mean, they can answer for themselves) has to do with what you think incarceration is for. If it's simply punishment or justice it's sort of problematic. Punishment or the fear of getting caught doesn't factor in as clearly in preventing crime, if we're just punishing people to make ourselves feel better than there's the question of how valuable that is as a society. If you adopt the Norwegian model, where life sentences aren't a thing and the most you can get is 25 years or something like that which can be extended at the end if its determined that the person is still a threat but during that time the prisoner is rehabilitated rather than simply punished. This means that they're given reasonable living conditions and a chance to improve and interact.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:19 pm

Necroghastia wrote:
The Emerald Legion wrote:
Why? Prison in general is pointless for anything beyond temporary detainment to prevent a suspect from running away. Everything else would be better solved via Fines and actual Repayment. The Democrats hardon for imprisonment is one thing that always bewildered me. Just put a bullet in the guy if you don't want him rejoining society, anything else is just societal cowardice.


Just gonna ignore the comments above that point out that the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment, I see, as well as the argument that allowing the death penalty can and has also resulted in innocent people getting executed.

We agree here.
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Postby Neutraligon » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:24 pm

Cannot think of a name wrote:
Agarntrop wrote:Why are you against life imprisonment?

It probably (I mean, they can answer for themselves) has to do with what you think incarceration is for. If it's simply punishment or justice it's sort of problematic. Punishment or the fear of getting caught doesn't factor in as clearly in preventing crime, if we're just punishing people to make ourselves feel better than there's the question of how valuable that is as a society. If you adopt the Norwegian model, where life sentences aren't a thing and the most you can get is 25 years or something like that which can be extended at the end if its determined that the person is still a threat but during that time the prisoner is rehabilitated rather than simply punished. This means that they're given reasonable living conditions and a chance to improve and interact.

I'm of the opinion that there are people who are too dangerous be released and as such life sentences should exist as a possibility in order to protect the populous.
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Cannot think of a name
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Postby Cannot think of a name » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:28 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:It probably (I mean, they can answer for themselves) has to do with what you think incarceration is for. If it's simply punishment or justice it's sort of problematic. Punishment or the fear of getting caught doesn't factor in as clearly in preventing crime, if we're just punishing people to make ourselves feel better than there's the question of how valuable that is as a society. If you adopt the Norwegian model, where life sentences aren't a thing and the most you can get is 25 years or something like that which can be extended at the end if its determined that the person is still a threat but during that time the prisoner is rehabilitated rather than simply punished. This means that they're given reasonable living conditions and a chance to improve and interact.

I'm of the opinion that there are people who are too dangerous be released and as such life sentences should exist as a possibility in order to protect the populous.

The Norwegian system (which I am faaaaaar from an expert on...if only there was someone who was familiar with it, like a Norwegian lawyer or something, on the forum...) allows for that in that the sentences can be extended at the end of the regular term. This can keep happening until the person dies, which becomes a life sentence at that point. The difference is that you're making that determination over time instead at the end of the trial. If there person does turn out irredeemable then it happens, if they aren't then they rejoin society.
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LiberNovusAmericae
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Postby LiberNovusAmericae » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:30 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I don't like life imprisonment in general, so I wouldn't have given it to him. That being said, if anyone deserves it it's him, so I'm going to pick my battles and say good, if life imprisonment is something you do.

Some people are too dangerous to walk amongst us, so life imprisonment is a must for a safe society.
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Postby Agarntrop » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:30 pm

Neutraligon wrote:
Cannot think of a name wrote:It probably (I mean, they can answer for themselves) has to do with what you think incarceration is for. If it's simply punishment or justice it's sort of problematic. Punishment or the fear of getting caught doesn't factor in as clearly in preventing crime, if we're just punishing people to make ourselves feel better than there's the question of how valuable that is as a society. If you adopt the Norwegian model, where life sentences aren't a thing and the most you can get is 25 years or something like that which can be extended at the end if its determined that the person is still a threat but during that time the prisoner is rehabilitated rather than simply punished. This means that they're given reasonable living conditions and a chance to improve and interact.

I'm of the opinion that there are people who are too dangerous be released and as such life sentences should exist as a possibility in order to protect the populous.

I like the British model, where life without parole sentences are used sparingly and in extreme cases.
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Postby Nakena » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:30 pm

LiberNovusAmericae wrote:
Greater vakolicci haven wrote:Well, I don't like life imprisonment in general, so I wouldn't have given it to him. That being said, if anyone deserves it it's him, so I'm going to pick my battles and say good, if life imprisonment is something you do.

Some people are too dangerous to walk amongst us, so life imprisonment is a must for a safe society.


Pretty much this, yep.

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Postby Grenartia » Mon Jul 01, 2019 3:31 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Vetalia wrote:Death penalty, period. A man that runs down others in his car that he doesn't like is the utmost coward.


Oh but you see it's better he ends up costing thousands of dollars per year cuz killing is bad m'kay?


1. Capital punishment is actually more expensive than life imprisonment.
2. Capital punishment is, in fact, bad, even for Nazis.
3. The longer they're in, the more of a chance there is that they'll truly renounce their actions, and agree to help prevent others from copycatting them, which is an obvious net benefit to society.
4. Even if they don't, executing them only gives their movement the martyrs it craves.
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