by Christian Confederation » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:30 pm
by Sierra Lyricalia » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:37 pm
by Christian Confederation » Wed Jun 05, 2019 8:47 pm
Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: Welcome to the World Assembly! Unfortunately this draft would be illegal if submitted. The biggest problem you have is that you don't appear to require member states to actually do anything. Your only operative clause ("...Hereby preserves history") is so vague as to be essentially meaningless. How will you require member states to "preserve history"? What does that mean, exactly, and what day-to-day actions must nations take to comply with this? Spell those out and you'll have the start of a proposal. After that will come a lot of work to refine and improve it over a period of weeks, probably.
Good luck!
by East Meranopirus » Thu Jun 06, 2019 2:59 am
Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that if History is not Lerned from we are doomed to repeat it.
Acknowledging that all sides of history, both good and bad hold lessons we can learn from.
Nothing that certain parts of our history have been twisted to a Partal truths. Especially related to war, do to the simple fact that History is written by the Victor's.
Striving to Teach History from a Unbiased, and nonpartisan way. Allowing for a Fair and Nuteral view on History.
Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of Destroying Statues and other Controversial Symbols of history, modifie them to show both sides of history.
- Allow all sides of debate in all public Spaces.
- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.
Hearby preserves history.
by Christian Confederation » Thu Jun 06, 2019 7:15 am
by Kenmoria » Thu Jun 06, 2019 8:08 am
Christian Confederation wrote:This was a stupid idea.
by Christian Confederation » Thu Jun 06, 2019 9:19 am
Kenmoria wrote:Christian Confederation wrote:This was a stupid idea.
(OOC: The idea itself wasn’t too bad, and had some potential. Although there are some problems with the rules, I have seen far worse proposals here on the forums, and you appear to be taking feedback and adding to your legislation. It is ultimately up to you whether or not you continue with this draft, but do remember that drafting at all, partly regardless of success, is a good experience for the future.)
by East Meranopirus » Thu Jun 06, 2019 11:44 pm
Christian Confederation wrote:Agreed, I'll probably come back to this later, now I'll try something less controversial.
by Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 11:33 am
East Meranopirus wrote:Christian Confederation wrote:Agreed, I'll probably come back to this later, now I'll try something less controversial.
Please don't think this bill is controversial, because certainly nothing anyone said has reflected that so far. In fact I would say it has more potential than the other proposal you put forward.
by Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 2:27 pm
Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that if History is not Lerned from we are doomed to repeat it.
Acknowledging that all sides of history, both good and bad hold lessons we can learn from.
Nothing that certain parts of our history have been twisted to a Partal truths. Especially related to war, do to the simple fact that History is written by the Victor's.
Striving to Teach History from a Unbiased, and nonpartisan way. Allowing for a Fair and Nuteral view on History.
Article 1. How to preserve History.
- Instead of Destroying Statues and other Controversial Symbols of history, modifie them to show both sides of history.
- Allow all sides of debate in all public Spaces.
- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.
Hearby preserves history.
by Kenmoria » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:00 pm
Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that, if history is not learned from, prior mistakes may be repeated.
Acknowledging that children in member nations can learn important lessons from all aspects of history, both positive and negative.
Nothing that certain parts of history have been twisted to a partial truths especially related to war, due to the simple fact that history is written by the victors.
Striving to teach history from an unbiased and nonpartisan way, allowing for a fair and natural view on History.
by Wallenburg » Fri Jun 07, 2019 3:01 pm
by Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 4:30 pm
Kenmoria wrote:“I’ve put some corrections in red.”Christian Confederation wrote:Understanding that, if history is not learned from, prior mistakes may be repeated.
Acknowledging that children in member nations can learn important lessons from all aspects of history, both positive and negative.
Nothing that certain parts of history have been twisted to a partial truths especially related to war, due to the simple fact that history is written by the victors.
Striving to teach history from an unbiased and nonpartisan way, allowing for a fair and natural view on History.
“Your active clauses, particularly the last one, ought to be rewritten in order to be far more precise and easy for members nations to follow.”
by Araraukar » Fri Jun 07, 2019 5:50 pm
Christian Confederation wrote:*snip*
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:53 pm
Araraukar wrote:Christian Confederation wrote:*snip*
OOC: Take the most offensive thing you can think of, then imagine your actual RL home nation had only just managed to gain its independence from a bigger nation that had enslaved your people, your family, yourself, and made a statue of the Most Offensive Thing, placing it in what had just become a capital of your home nation, and then RL UN saying you can't do anything about the statue that's only there because your former enslavers thought so little of your people, and then you might have the tiniest bit of inklings why it's a bad idea to require the statues not to be removed.
Also, it's not easy to modify statues and monuments, especially big ones. Think of the presidential heads carved on a mountainside somewhere in USA (can't remember the location name) - imagine if two of them would need to be changed into Native American heads due to this proposal of yours. Do you really think that would 1. be doable and 2. be done?
by East Meranopirus » Fri Jun 07, 2019 7:28 pm
by Igueranel » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:03 pm
OOC: Take the most offensive thing you can think of, then imagine your actual RL home nation had only just managed to gain its independence from a bigger nation that had enslaved your people, your family, yourself, and made a statue of the Most Offensive Thing, placing it in what had just become a capital of your home nation, and then RL UN saying you can't do anything about the statue that's only there because your former enslavers thought so little of your people, and then you might have the tiniest bit of inklings why it's a bad idea to require the statues not to be removed.
Also, it's not easy to modify statues and monuments, especially big ones. Think of the presidential heads carved on a mountainside somewhere in USA (can't remember the location name) - imagine if two of them would need to be changed into Native American heads due to this proposal of yours. Do you really think that would 1. be doable and 2. be done?
by Christian Confederation » Fri Jun 07, 2019 10:43 pm
Igueranel wrote:OOC: Take the most offensive thing you can think of, then imagine your actual RL home nation had only just managed to gain its independence from a bigger nation that had enslaved your people, your family, yourself, and made a statue of the Most Offensive Thing, placing it in what had just become a capital of your home nation, and then RL UN saying you can't do anything about the statue that's only there because your former enslavers thought so little of your people, and then you might have the tiniest bit of inklings why it's a bad idea to require the statues not to be removed.
Also, it's not easy to modify statues and monuments, especially big ones. Think of the presidential heads carved on a mountainside somewhere in USA (can't remember the location name) - imagine if two of them would need to be changed into Native American heads due to this proposal of yours. Do you really think that would 1. be doable and 2. be done?
OOC: Large monuments cannot reasonably be removed or changed, so really all that can be done is tell a more complete story of the history behind them, rather than purely positive or negative propaganda.
It probably isn't a good idea to prohibit the removal of smaller statues and monuments. Perhaps it would be best for this proposal to allow communities and nations choose to remove them if they wish, but to prohibit destroying them. Require that they be moved to historical displays in museums or universities where they can serve as educational tools for learning history, rather than public reminders of bad points in a nation's history.
The both sides of history part is really hard to define or enforce. Sure, I would want people to get a complete picture of historical events, but the further back in history the event in question, the harder that becomes. Often there are more than just two sides to history as well. Sometimes every witness to an event tells a different story. You'll have a very hard time convincing some regimes to talk about old enemies in fair terms, and new nations are not likely to remember their former rulers positively.
Perhaps rather than trying to enforce a balanced view of history in every member nation here, a better issue to tackle in the proposal would be action against groups intentionally destroying history(think certain real world groups that destroy historical sites and monuments). It would be very helpeful to the study of history if nations took a more active role in protecting historical sites from vandalism and terrorism.
This has potential, but as has been said, it must require real action on the part of member nations.
by East Meranopirus » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:34 am
by Christian Confederation » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:40 am
East Meranopirus wrote:Again, you still refuse to read the passed resolutions or any guides on how to write a good GA resolution. If you had read just one of them, you'd know that yours is written incorrectly.
But on the content, your reference to legislatures are problematic because it assumes all nations have a legislature. It's also hinging on WA overreach, as what national/provincial/local legislatures do should be their own business, not the World Assembly's. I suggest you instead to write a set of criteria for which a monument can be moved.
As the previous poster suggested, you could change your focus to specifically groups that destroy historical artifacts and monuments, instead of trying to enforce a complete view of history, which is very difficult from a scholarly standpoint, and can be problematic if it essentially contributes to the spreading of an evil ideology.
by East Meranopirus » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:45 am
Christian Confederation wrote:What do you suggest we remove? The document is op and up to date with past recommendations.
by Wallenburg » Sat Jun 08, 2019 12:51 am
by Kenmoria » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:58 am
by Araraukar » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:06 am
Christian Confederation wrote:- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
by Christian Confederation » Sat Jun 08, 2019 2:12 am
Araraukar wrote:Christian Confederation wrote:- educate the citizens of member Nations to all sides of history.
OOC: Also, ^this will become a problem without any qualifiers. I mean, I'm willing to entertain the thought that you have actually passed basic schooling (though I won't be surprised if you haven't). How much do you remember of what you learned about bronze age in Finland? Or was that even taught about in your school? At least you exist on the same actual planet and universe.
WA nations, even the ones that are modern tech, cannot all exist on the same planet, beyond many of them simply stating not existing on the same planet/universe with others. So you need to specify what history should be taught and to whom. School age kids have other things they need to be learning, too.
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