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NFL Thread v2: The 2020 NFL Season!

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Super Bowl Championship: Who’s the winner?

Kansas City Chiefs and Patty freaking Mahomes
5
56%
Seattle Seahawks, Let Russ Cool!
4
44%
 
Total votes : 9

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Caliphate of Harlem
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Founded: Jul 25, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Caliphate of Harlem » Fri May 31, 2019 6:35 pm

Impaled Nazarene wrote:Boxing! I take it you are from across the ocean where boxing is still good?

Anyway local team is arbitrary. Look up the histories of the teams, their rosters, jerseys, etc.
I recommend the Cleveland Browns they were juggernauts 50 years ago but after they were screwed over by their owner became the worst team in all of sports, but now they are a hungry young team with massive upside and are just so likable.


As for a game you should try Super Bowl XLIII (43) between the Arizona Cardinals (historically the worst team in American Sports) and The Pittsburgh Steelers (Who up until last year were the most successful team post merger).
It's got a great narrative of a hot team led by legendary quarterback in Kurt Warner making his career comeback leading his team in several upsets. It has a team with the youngest coach in the league and a quarterback with a monkey on his back after finishing one of the toughest schedules in football history.

The game also happens to feature a wide variety of Football's rules and mechanics like
Challenges
Interceptions
Fumbles
Safety
The rules of catching

It's filled with great moments like
The best catch of all time
a 4th quarter comeback
the best receiver in the league with a go ahead score
the longest play in super bowl history

The players are incredible too
A hall of fame quarterback
The best receiver in the league
The toughest defense in the league
A receiver who can catch the most ridiculous passes
Young players with a lot to prove

Granted I am biassed by being a Steelers fan but even so I believe this is one of the best games of all time.


I live in the Middle East. Boxing’s always been a little bipolar, we have our ups and downs. I think there’s a lot of talent in the States right now, unfortunately a lot of good fighters don’t get a lot of public exposure and I sense there’s not much interest anyway. I have to admit I used to loathe football. Maybe I blamed it for my own sport’s state? NFL was becoming very popular at a time when boxing was banned by the NCAA and shoved off television. Then the whole concussion crisis came over and you start reading all these stories about football players going back out on the field with broken bones and playing while they’re basically punch drunk, that takes a lot of heart and nerve. The take away from that was that I think the two sports share a common problems: more and more parents don’t want they’re kids strapping on helmets or lacing up gloves and brain damage is a persistent issue.

We do have a tiny football league here, it’s mostly run by American expats but it’s pretty diverse overall. I think a lot of them are people who used to play it in high school or college. I’m not sure how good they are quality wise, but it’s fair to say they’re not winning a super bowl anytime soon. I don’t think football can really compete with soccer here, especially with the World Cup being in Qatar. The NBA have had more success promoting their sport here than the NFL, maybe because basketball have global superstars like Michael Jordan, most people know who MJ is even if they don’t follow the NBA but couldn’t name you a single football player, the NFL doesn’t really have that big world famous star. The great thing about a small league is you can get a ‘ringside’ seat right up close and see the action live from the ground, it doesn’t have that stadium atmosphere you guys have in the States but hey beggars can’t be choosers.

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Kohr
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Postby Kohr » Fri May 31, 2019 9:35 pm

Caliphate of Harlem wrote:Hi there! So, I’m a newbie to NFL and I was wondering if anyone could recommend a classic game for a first time football virgin to watch. Preferably something violent and dramatic with a good back story. I was raised in a household where boxing was the only sport that mattered so I’m finding it hard getting into a team sport. I don’t even have a local team to root for. Any advice you guys could give would be appreciated.

Come be a miserable Vikings fan like me!

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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:44 am

Kohr wrote:
Caliphate of Harlem wrote:Hi there! So, I’m a newbie to NFL and I was wondering if anyone could recommend a classic game for a first time football virgin to watch. Preferably something violent and dramatic with a good back story. I was raised in a household where boxing was the only sport that mattered so I’m finding it hard getting into a team sport. I don’t even have a local team to root for. Any advice you guys could give would be appreciated.

Come be a miserable Vikings fan like me!

Of all the teams they could choose, that's one I wouldn't complain too hard about. Though I would also gladly welcome any new Steeler fans.

But then again, it's not a great time to join the fandom, as we're currently recovering from being the league's hottest mess.
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Impaled Nazarene
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Postby Impaled Nazarene » Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:10 am

Idzequitch wrote:
Kohr wrote:Come be a miserable Vikings fan like me!

Of all the teams they could choose, that's one I wouldn't complain too hard about. Though I would also gladly welcome any new Steeler fans.

But then again, it's not a great time to join the fandom, as we're currently recovering from being the league's hottest mess.

Yeah, they should probably root for a less toxic team

Here's a list of them and why
New England Patriots: Everyone is an asshole from the owner down to the infants wearing onesies. Obnoxious winners, toxic fanbase, are regularly accused of cheating, have heavy favoritism from the league and the referees, and more

New York Jets: Miserable fan base that is doomed to hate itself until they crap out a championship, players hate being on the Jets, coaches hate being hired by the jets, the team is incapable of drafting talent consistently

Pittsburgh Steelers: The biggest drama show in sports since the Kobe Bryant Lakers. Even when they aren't infected with drama they play down to their competition and choke away vital games. Their QB is a rapist.

Denver Broncos: This team became relevant for the first time this past decade and after winning the second most boring Super Bowl became one of the most arrogant teams in the league. They are ran by a man so full of himself that he sent his own head back in time to the 1980s and shoved it up his own ass.

Dallas Cowboys: Make New England look humble, are ran by the most vicious man in the business, corrupt as all hell, regularly allow severe criminal behavior by the players, unsurpassed arrogance, wear white jerseys in 99% of their games.

San Diego Chargers (Los Angeles Chargers): Fucked over their entire city and fanbase by crying foul and running away to Los Angeles where they now play in a minor league soccer stadium only to choke year in and year out, led by the most overrated quarterback in the league who is guaranteed to choke in the playoffs, have an easy schedule every year and make the playoffs because their conference is a joke, just look up the phrase "Fuck You Spanos"

Every team has its faults but these are the most egregious.
Last edited by Impaled Nazarene on Sat Jun 01, 2019 2:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:14 am

How do you mention toxic teams and not mention the Oakland Raiders?
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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jun 01, 2019 5:52 am

Impaled Nazarene wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:Of all the teams they could choose, that's one I wouldn't complain too hard about. Though I would also gladly welcome any new Steeler fans.

But then again, it's not a great time to join the fandom, as we're currently recovering from being the league's hottest mess.

Yeah, they should probably root for a less toxic team

Here's a list of them and why
New England Patriots: Everyone is an asshole from the owner down to the infants wearing onesies. Obnoxious winners, toxic fanbase, are regularly accused of cheating, have heavy favoritism from the league and the referees, and more

New York Jets: Miserable fan base that is doomed to hate itself until they crap out a championship, players hate being on the Jets, coaches hate being hired by the jets, the team is incapable of drafting talent consistently

Pittsburgh Steelers: The biggest drama show in sports since the Kobe Bryant Lakers. Even when they aren't infected with drama they play down to their competition and choke away vital games. Their QB is a rapist.

Denver Broncos: This team became relevant for the first time this past decade and after winning the second most boring Super Bowl became one of the most arrogant teams in the league. They are ran by a man so full of himself that he sent his own head back in time to the 1980s and shoved it up his own ass.

Dallas Cowboys: Make New England look humble, are ran by the most vicious man in the business, corrupt as all hell, regularly allow severe criminal behavior by the players, unsurpassed arrogance, wear white jerseys in 99% of their games.

San Diego Chargers (Los Angeles Chargers): Fucked over their entire city and fanbase by crying foul and running away to Los Angeles where they now play in a minor league soccer stadium only to choke year in and year out, led by the most overrated quarterback in the league who is guaranteed to choke in the playoffs, have an easy schedule every year and make the playoffs because their conference is a joke, just look up the phrase "Fuck You Spanos"

Every team has its faults but these are the most egregious.

I actually quite admire the way the cowboys are ran. Jerry Jones cares about his team; not the league, not the image, not the press or the PR, his team and his players.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
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“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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Impaled Nazarene
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Postby Impaled Nazarene » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:02 am

Luminesa wrote:How do you mention toxic teams and not mention the Oakland Raiders?

They're actually quite likable. A shame that right now they're the ugliest shit in the league, impossible to root for and only going to get worse. In that brief period of the Del Rio Raiders I liked them because they reminded me of the old raiders. A bad guy, a heel etc. Mark Davis is just desperate, broke, and possibly stupid but he's not malicious.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I actually quite admire the way the cowboys are ran. Jerry Jones cares about his team; not the league, not the image, not the press or the PR, his team and his players.

While mostly true wouldn't you agree his meddlesome nature and stubbornness have hurt the Cowboys
Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:06 am

Impaled Nazarene wrote:
Luminesa wrote:How do you mention toxic teams and not mention the Oakland Raiders?

They're actually quite likable. A shame that right now they're the ugliest shit in the league, impossible to root for and only going to get worse. In that brief period of the Del Rio Raiders I liked them because they reminded me of the old raiders. A bad guy, a heel etc. Mark Davis is just desperate, broke, and possibly stupid but he's not malicious.

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:I actually quite admire the way the cowboys are ran. Jerry Jones cares about his team; not the league, not the image, not the press or the PR, his team and his players.

While mostly true wouldn't you agree his meddlesome nature and stubbornness have hurt the Cowboys

I think it's the fault of the other owners. Jones knows how much shit is in the league right now, and how it's ran by the PR people rather than the people who actually care about football. I get the impression he cares far more about what's happening on the pitch than how many people are watching ESPN, and that's what's needed in a club owner. He should be commissioner.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
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“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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The Cow and Dairy Isles
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Postby The Cow and Dairy Isles » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:06 am

If we’re going toxic teams, I think the whole AFC east is a mess. But first let me state my bias as a bills fan (it’s our year)

Patriots and Jets described above

Dolphins have some cheap players and are a very toxic organization. Gase failed to change culture and everyone still brags about a play that got them to beat the pats even thought they went 7-9 and had some cheap hits on Josh Allen in Week 17. Glad they cut Tannehill and I think Fitzpatrick is a needed veteran presence on their team.

The bills have sucked for the 21st century in its entirety, with only one playoffs on a fluke play. Our defense is stellar though. Also our fans break way to many tables and get way to drunk before games.

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Greater vakolicci haven
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Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:09 am

The Cow and Dairy Isles wrote:If we’re going toxic teams, I think the whole AFC east is a mess. But first let me state my bias as a bills fan (it’s our year)

Patriots and Jets described above

Dolphins have some cheap players and are a very toxic organization. Gase failed to change culture and everyone still brags about a play that got them to beat the pats even thought they went 7-9 and had some cheap hits on Josh Allen in Week 17. Glad they cut Tannehill and I think Fitzpatrick is a needed veteran presence on their team.

The bills have sucked for the 21st century in its entirety, with only one playoffs on a fluke play. Our defense is stellar though. Also our fans break way to many tables and get way to drunk before games.

You need it if you support a shit game. I had half a pint of vodka before I went to watch the giants and that made it nearly bearable.
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

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The Cow and Dairy Isles
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Postby The Cow and Dairy Isles » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:11 am

To be fair, yeah but I think the steep increase in chiropractor visits after each game needs to be addressed. (The county banned plastic tables from the field but that didn’t stop people)

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The Cow and Dairy Isles
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Postby The Cow and Dairy Isles » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:18 am

Caliphate of Harlem wrote:Hi there! So, I’m a newbie to NFL and I was wondering if anyone could recommend a classic game for a first time football virgin to watch. Preferably something violent and dramatic with a good back story. I was raised in a household where boxing was the only sport that mattered so I’m finding it hard getting into a team sport. I don’t even have a local team to root for. Any advice you guys could give would be appreciated.


A pretty good game between legends that wasn’t a shootout is
Dolphins @ Bills, AFC Divisonal 1990

Or if you want to see a close game with some legends in it may I recommend
Bills @ Browns, AFC Divisional 1989

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Impaled Nazarene
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Postby Impaled Nazarene » Sat Jun 01, 2019 6:28 am

The Cow and Dairy Isles wrote:If we’re going toxic teams, I think the whole AFC east is a mess. But first let me state my bias as a bills fan (it’s our year)

Patriots and Jets described above

Dolphins have some cheap players and are a very toxic organization. Gase failed to change culture and everyone still brags about a play that got them to beat the pats even thought they went 7-9 and had some cheap hits on Josh Allen in Week 17. Glad they cut Tannehill and I think Fitzpatrick is a needed veteran presence on their team.

The bills have sucked for the 21st century in its entirety, with only one playoffs on a fluke play. Our defense is stellar though. Also our fans break way to many tables and get way to drunk before games.

I wouldn't compare the Phins to any of the teams i listed. They're only really obnoxious about muh undefeated season. They may be a running joke but they still have dignity (unlike the Jets) atleast they aren't trying to fuck over the fans (like the Chargers). Bad management alone doesn't put them on par with the other teams.
Anarchist
Kiaculta wrote:Oh, Kar, you silly sack of shit.
Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
Finland SSR wrote:"Many dictatorships are oligarchies.
Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

-said no one ever. I made these words up.
Genivaria wrote:"WHY!? Why do this!? Thousands of planets and trillions of innocent lives gone! For what!?"
"It seemed like fun at the time."

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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Sat Jun 01, 2019 10:59 am

Luminesa wrote:How do you mention toxic teams and not mention the Oakland Raiders?


Definitely add them.

But never forget the damned Zebras. They are toxic for every team but the Krafty (get naked with a couple ol' Florida hoes) New England Pats.
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Jerzylvania
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Postby Jerzylvania » Sat Jun 01, 2019 11:05 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
The Cow and Dairy Isles wrote:If we’re going toxic teams, I think the whole AFC east is a mess. But first let me state my bias as a bills fan (it’s our year)

Patriots and Jets described above

Dolphins have some cheap players and are a very toxic organization. Gase failed to change culture and everyone still brags about a play that got them to beat the pats even thought they went 7-9 and had some cheap hits on Josh Allen in Week 17. Glad they cut Tannehill and I think Fitzpatrick is a needed veteran presence on their team.

The bills have sucked for the 21st century in its entirety, with only one playoffs on a fluke play. Our defense is stellar though. Also our fans break way to many tables and get way to drunk before games.

You need it if you support a shit game. I had half a pint of vodka before I went to watch the giants and that made it nearly bearable.

Did you hold on to the empty vodka bottle after? If so, that's a wise move. May need it to defend yourself among the crowd of drunks.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Sat Jun 01, 2019 1:51 pm

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:
Impaled Nazarene wrote:Yeah, they should probably root for a less toxic team

Here's a list of them and why
New England Patriots: Everyone is an asshole from the owner down to the infants wearing onesies. Obnoxious winners, toxic fanbase, are regularly accused of cheating, have heavy favoritism from the league and the referees, and more

New York Jets: Miserable fan base that is doomed to hate itself until they crap out a championship, players hate being on the Jets, coaches hate being hired by the jets, the team is incapable of drafting talent consistently

Pittsburgh Steelers: The biggest drama show in sports since the Kobe Bryant Lakers. Even when they aren't infected with drama they play down to their competition and choke away vital games. Their QB is a rapist.

Denver Broncos: This team became relevant for the first time this past decade and after winning the second most boring Super Bowl became one of the most arrogant teams in the league. They are ran by a man so full of himself that he sent his own head back in time to the 1980s and shoved it up his own ass.

Dallas Cowboys: Make New England look humble, are ran by the most vicious man in the business, corrupt as all hell, regularly allow severe criminal behavior by the players, unsurpassed arrogance, wear white jerseys in 99% of their games.

San Diego Chargers (Los Angeles Chargers): Fucked over their entire city and fanbase by crying foul and running away to Los Angeles where they now play in a minor league soccer stadium only to choke year in and year out, led by the most overrated quarterback in the league who is guaranteed to choke in the playoffs, have an easy schedule every year and make the playoffs because their conference is a joke, just look up the phrase "Fuck You Spanos"

Every team has its faults but these are the most egregious.

I actually quite admire the way the cowboys are ran. Jerry Jones cares about his team; not the league, not the image, not the press or the PR, his team and his players.

Jerry Jones may in fact be the Devil Incarnate, who sits upon a crooked, frozen throne at the Ninth Circle of Hell hidden under the Cowboys Stadium. Or an immortal evil wizard who steals the souls of innocent football fans in order to remain alive and powerful.
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faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
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Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
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Postby Ranoria » Sun Jun 02, 2019 5:58 am

https://arrowheadaddict.com/2019/04/18/ ... ons/amp/4/

I understand that this article is on a Chiefs-biased site, but if you guys read through, he’s projecting one team to put up over 30 on their toothless defense, and a 15-1 record despite not having as many quality players offensively. Also projecting only one of their wins to be by less than 10. It’s kind of annoying.
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Postby Jerzylvania » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:38 am

Ranoria wrote:https://arrowheadaddict.com/2019/04/18/kansas-city-chiefs-game-by-game-early-2019-schedule-predictions/amp/4/

I understand that this article is on a Chiefs-biased site, but if you guys read through, he’s projecting one team to put up over 30 on their toothless defense, and a 15-1 record despite not having as many quality players offensively. Also projecting only one of their wins to be by less than 10. It’s kind of annoying.


I believe Jaylon Dodson is Homer Simpson's pen name.
No worries, Ran. Some of these cartoon characters say the damnedest things.
Donald Trump has no clue as to what "insuring the domestic tranquility" means

The Baltimore Orioles are shocking the baseball world!

Jerzylvania is the NFL Picks League Champion in 2018 and in 2020 as puppet Traffic Signal and AGAIN in 2023 as puppet Joe Munchkin !!!

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Dresderstan
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Postby Dresderstan » Mon Jun 03, 2019 8:43 am

Jerzylvania wrote:
Ranoria wrote:https://arrowheadaddict.com/2019/04/18/kansas-city-chiefs-game-by-game-early-2019-schedule-predictions/amp/4/

I understand that this article is on a Chiefs-biased site, but if you guys read through, he’s projecting one team to put up over 30 on their toothless defense, and a 15-1 record despite not having as many quality players offensively. Also projecting only one of their wins to be by less than 10. It’s kind of annoying.


I believe Jaylon Dodson is Homer Simpson's pen name.
No worries, Ran. Some of these cartoon characters say the damnedest things.

Ay, caramba! :p

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Idzequitch
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Postby Idzequitch » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:06 pm

Gerald McCoy signed with Carolina.
Twenty-something, male, heterosexual, Protestant Christian. Politically unaffiliated libertarian-ish centrist.
Meyers-Briggs INFP.
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I once believed in causes too, I had my pointless point of view, and life went on no matter who was wrong or right. - Billy Joel

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Luminesa
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Postby Luminesa » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:08 pm

Idzequitch wrote:Gerald McCoy signed with Carolina.

NO. HE NEEDED TO LEAVE THIS DIVISION OR COME TO US.
DANG IT.
*Internal screaming.*
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
Unofficial #1 fan of the Who Dat Nation.
"I'm just a singer of simple songs, I'm not a real political man. I watch CNN, but I'm not sure I can tell you the difference in Iraq and Iran. But I know Jesus, and I talk to God, and I remember this from when I was young:
faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
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The South Falls
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Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The South Falls » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:09 pm

Idzequitch wrote:Gerald McCoy signed with Carolina.

D-line shoring here and in the draft. Julius Peppers and Thomas Davis' replacements.
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Idzequitch
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Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Idzequitch » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:10 pm

Luminesa wrote:
Idzequitch wrote:Gerald McCoy signed with Carolina.

NO. HE NEEDED TO LEAVE THIS DIVISION OR COME TO US.
DANG IT.
*Internal screaming.*

Considering his other top option was Baltimore, I'm pretty okay with this development.
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Luminesa
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 61228
Founded: Dec 09, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Luminesa » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:19 pm

Idzequitch wrote:
Luminesa wrote:NO. HE NEEDED TO LEAVE THIS DIVISION OR COME TO US.
DANG IT.
*Internal screaming.*

Considering his other top option was Baltimore, I'm pretty okay with this development.

...
*Sobs.*
Catholic, pro-life, and proud of it. I prefer my debates on religion, politics, and sports with some coffee and a little Aquinas and G.K. CHESTERTON here and there. :3
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faith, hope and love are some good things He gave us...
and the greatest is love."
-Alan Jackson
Help the Ukrainian people, here's some sources!
Help bring home First Nation girls! Now with more ways to help!
Jesus loves all of His children in Eastern Europe - pray for peace.
Pray for Ukraine, Wear Sunflowers In Your Hair

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Impaled Nazarene
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Founded: Aug 09, 2015
Ex-Nation

Postby Impaled Nazarene » Mon Jun 03, 2019 3:58 pm

Idzequitch wrote:Gerald McCoy signed with Carolina.

These are going to be 2 vicious rivalry games. My bet is that he injures a buc.
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Soviet Haaregrad wrote:Bickering ist krieg.
Infected Mushroom wrote:isn't this a bit extreme?
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Many democracies are oligarchies.
Therefore, many dictatorships are democracies."

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