NS Rugby Discussion Thread (v.2)

[Apox]

I've had a think about it and decided to reject the Abanhfleft Rugby Premiership entries (as seen in the cutoff post). There are two main reasons for this and I'll list them below:

1. I've always taken that with a multiassociational league, you can have teams from more associations gain entry to RUCT but not have one association having two different methods by which they could qualify.
2. Back when I ran the Super Sixteen with the Licentian Isles, both nations had a second tier competition under the unified top tier. As this tier wasn't eligible for entry to RUCT, the ARP as a second tier competition should not be eligible for RUCT. I realise this hasn't been stated anywhere before so I'll state it here, that clubs can only qualify for RUCT if they are part of the top tier of rugby in that competition.

This does lead me onto considering multiassociational leagues though, and whether they are deserving of additional places, remembering that the Super Sixteen got extra places when it was a thing and I had said to Lisander that should he switch to a multiassociational league then there would be more places available for that league. As such I am now stating that all multiassociational leagues will receive four places to RUCT as a minimum and an extra place for each association which would be eligible for an extra place, up to a maximum of two. This will ruling will come into place for RUCT33, in which case (if still ranked second) as a multiassociational league, the APOC Coalition would receive 5 spots to RUCT, with a maximum of three spots awarded to any specific country. Hopefully this is an acceptable solution for all involved.

[Apox]

Hello all,

It's been brought to my attention that I made a mistake in the most recent RUCT knock-out rounds whereby Perokojak Kota Jakulta advanced to the Quarter-Finals instead of Schwartzgarten Warriors of Neu Engollon. As such I will be rescorinating just the affected Quarter-Final match-up between Venividicci & Schwartzgarten Warriors, and then any subsequent match-ups should Venividicci not advance from that quarter-final. Obviously there is a chance this could affect the overall outcome of the tournament so for the moment, Saracens of Lisander are only "provisionally" the winners until this issue has been fixed.

The rankings of the teams & associations will also need to be fixed and I will aim to have this all sorted today.

Massive apologies to all affected by this clerical oversight on my behalf.

[Neu Engollon]

Thank you for doing that. Sorry to those it affects.

[Darmen]

So, this has been a long time in coming, but I finally present to you my ideas on how we can improve the sevens series going forward.

The last time we tried to organize a NSRB Sevens Series, no one put forth a bid and only one person (myself) even expressed interest in hosting a leg of the competition. The series before that ran from Nov. 2017 to Aug. 2018, a period of 10 months, and included only four events hosted by three individuals. The four tournaments generated only 165 forum posts, with the World Cup being the least active tournament with only 24 posts.

So, between the length of the series, and the amount of activity it generated, a few questions come to mind:

• Is there actually enough interest in rugby sevens to justify holding a full series?
• If there is a lack of interest, how much does the length of the series affect that interest?

I for one would like to see the series continue. So, what do I propose?

Instead of having the series be a number of individual tournaments hosted individually, the Sevens Series should be organized more similarly to the WGPC. The Series would be hosted by one, potentially two (more on that later), hosts with 8-10 legs before culminating in a Rugby Sevens World Cup.

Hosting
The series would be hosted (from an OOC stand point only) by one player, who would scorinate the entire series. This would mean that host bids would focus on prior hosting experience and scorination method. Now one of the pros of how we ran the series in the past was that it allowed newer hosts an opportunity to scorinate a small, low stress competition to gain experience. I'd like to keep that going, so a second junior partner could be brought on to scorinate one or two of the series legs under the guidance of the senior bidder should the senior bidder choose to do so.

Schedule
Each of the series legs (perhaps with the exception of the World Cup) would be scorinated over a period of two days, with the group stage on day one and the playoffs on day two. An off day (or two) would separate each of the legs. At its shortest (8 legs+two day WC, single off days), the entire series could be held in 26 days. At its longest (10 legs+six day WC, two off days), the entire series could be held in 46 days. For comparison, World Cup 82 lasted 39 days from the start of qualifiers to the final. Of course, the exact schedule would ultimately be up to the selected host(s), but I wanted to describe some scenarios. I think we can all agree that having a Sevens Series of <46 days in length is preferable to one that lasts over 10 months. Hopefully a shorter schedule also generates more interest and maintains that interest throughout the series.

Series Legs
IC hosting of a series leg would occur in a similar way to hosting a Grand Prix in the WGPC. Those who would want to have a tournament hosted in their country would post bids in the sign-up thread that would include venue information and perhaps a short history on rugby sevens in their nation. I'm not certain exactly how we'd choose which ones would make it in, there'd either be a vote or the NSRB VP's would choose.

Hopefully that all makes sense, and hopefully I haven't forgotten anything. If you need any clarification on anything, feel free to ask. Depending on how discussion goes, I think we should open singups for either a full Sevens Series, or just a Sevens World Cup, sometime in early to mid-August.

[Lisander]

So, this has been a long time in coming, but I finally present to you my ideas on how we can improve the sevens series going forward.

The last time we tried to organize a NSRB Sevens Series, no one put forth a bid and only one person (myself) even expressed interest in hosting a leg of the competition. The series before that ran from Nov. 2017 to Aug. 2018, a period of 10 months, and included only four events hosted by three individuals. The four tournaments generated only 165 forum posts, with the World Cup being the least active tournament with only 24 posts.

So, between the length of the series, and the amount of activity it generated, a few questions come to mind:

• Is there actually enough interest in rugby sevens to justify holding a full series?
• If there is a lack of interest, how much does the length of the series affect that interest?

I for one would like to see the series continue. So, what do I propose?

Instead of having the series be a number of individual tournaments hosted individually, the Sevens Series should be organized more similarly to the WGPC. The Series would be hosted by one, potentially two (more on that later), hosts with 8-10 legs before culminating in a Rugby Sevens World Cup.

Hosting
The series would be hosted (from an OOC stand point only) by one player, who would scorinate the entire series. This would mean that host bids would focus on prior hosting experience and scorination method. Now one of the pros of how we ran the series in the past was that it allowed newer hosts an opportunity to scorinate a small, low stress competition to gain experience. I'd like to keep that going, so a second junior partner could be brought on to scorinate one or two of the series legs under the guidance of the senior bidder should the senior bidder choose to do so.

Schedule
Each of the series legs (perhaps with the exception of the World Cup) would be scorinated over a period of two days, with the group stage on day one and the playoffs on day two. An off day (or two) would separate each of the legs. At its shortest (8 legs+two day WC, single off days), the entire series could be held in 26 days. At its longest (10 legs+six day WC, two off days), the entire series could be held in 46 days. For comparison, World Cup 82 lasted 39 days from the start of qualifiers to the final. Of course, the exact schedule would ultimately be up to the selected host(s), but I wanted to describe some scenarios. I think we can all agree that having a Sevens Series of <46 days in length is preferable to one that lasts over 10 months. Hopefully a shorter schedule also generates more interest and maintains that interest throughout the series.

Series Legs
IC hosting of a series leg would occur in a similar way to hosting a Grand Prix in the WGPC. Those who would want to have a tournament hosted in their country would post bids in the sign-up thread that would include venue information and perhaps a short history on rugby sevens in their nation. I'm not certain exactly how we'd choose which ones would make it in, there'd either be a vote or the NSRB VP's would choose.

Hopefully that all makes sense, and hopefully I haven't forgotten anything. If you need any clarification on anything, feel free to ask. Depending on how discussion goes, I think we should open singups for either a full Sevens Series, or just a Sevens World Cup, sometime in early to mid-August.

Man, I really like this.

I think this can work nicely, spanning through the weekends for two or three months. Being a lasting event, it can even give us the possibility of roleplaying on a Tuesday afternoon, even if games are only in Saturdays and Sundays.

One thing I'd like to address is the possibility of having 8 or 10 Core teams, while maintaining open signups for events. This way, we could deal with CTEs and low attendance, keeping a tournament neat even if Core users can't reply for some reason.

Also, you can count on me to be a assistant scorinator. URSA Sevens is also intended to continue.

[Apox]

Agree with all the proposals, although with if longer version of the series was decided to be run, would recommend getting the sign-ups up for RLWC (which I think would come next in the cycle) fairly soon afterwards to avoid delays between things.

[Neu Engollon]

So, this has been a long time in coming, but I finally present to you my ideas on how we can improve the sevens series going forward.

The last time we tried to organize a NSRB Sevens Series, no one put forth a bid and only one person (myself) even expressed interest in hosting a leg of the competition. The series before that ran from Nov. 2017 to Aug. 2018, a period of 10 months, and included only four events hosted by three individuals. The four tournaments generated only 165 forum posts, with the World Cup being the least active tournament with only 24 posts.

So, between the length of the series, and the amount of activity it generated, a few questions come to mind:

• Is there actually enough interest in rugby sevens to justify holding a full series?
• If there is a lack of interest, how much does the length of the series affect that interest?

I for one would like to see the series continue. So, what do I propose?

Instead of having the series be a number of individual tournaments hosted individually, the Sevens Series should be organized more similarly to the WGPC. The Series would be hosted by one, potentially two (more on that later), hosts with 8-10 legs before culminating in a Rugby Sevens World Cup.

Hosting
The series would be hosted (from an OOC stand point only) by one player, who would scorinate the entire series. This would mean that host bids would focus on prior hosting experience and scorination method. Now one of the pros of how we ran the series in the past was that it allowed newer hosts an opportunity to scorinate a small, low stress competition to gain experience. I'd like to keep that going, so a second junior partner could be brought on to scorinate one or two of the series legs under the guidance of the senior bidder should the senior bidder choose to do so.

Schedule
Each of the series legs (perhaps with the exception of the World Cup) would be scorinated over a period of two days, with the group stage on day one and the playoffs on day two. An off day (or two) would separate each of the legs. At its shortest (8 legs+two day WC, single off days), the entire series could be held in 26 days. At its longest (10 legs+six day WC, two off days), the entire series could be held in 46 days. For comparison, World Cup 82 lasted 39 days from the start of qualifiers to the final. Of course, the exact schedule would ultimately be up to the selected host(s), but I wanted to describe some scenarios. I think we can all agree that having a Sevens Series of <46 days in length is preferable to one that lasts over 10 months. Hopefully a shorter schedule also generates more interest and maintains that interest throughout the series.

Series Legs
IC hosting of a series leg would occur in a similar way to hosting a Grand Prix in the WGPC. Those who would want to have a tournament hosted in their country would post bids in the sign-up thread that would include venue information and perhaps a short history on rugby sevens in their nation. I'm not certain exactly how we'd choose which ones would make it in, there'd either be a vote or the NSRB VP's would choose.

Hopefully that all makes sense, and hopefully I haven't forgotten anything. If you need any clarification on anything, feel free to ask. Depending on how discussion goes, I think we should open singups for either a full Sevens Series, or just a Sevens World Cup, sometime in early to mid-August.

I think this is, first of all, highly disingenuous to those who have been consistent in hosting NSRB 7's, mainly myself and Lisander. I have found a comfortable niche in hosting my AVBF 7s tournament, which is also often referenced in NS rugby canon by other nations in their posts throughout other tournaments. If I am going to be able to host my AVBF 7's tournament under your plan, I must also bid to host all the other tournaments included for the series. I don't want to do that and it seems like a bigger commitment. Host burn out.

I disagree on several levels with your proposal. Yes, I think you should clarify all of it and take into account more how your schedule would effect players trying to keep up RP bonus and rank with other commitments. This won't help players that already give lower priority to rugby than other NS Sports as they will finally give up on NS rugby and not look back.

This also seems like more pressure than before. I have noted that it has been debated (in the respective thread) that the soccer/football WC cycle is too intense and not fun for many players. This plan would also turn the NSRB 7s Series into a similar high pressure situation to RP the tournament cycle in order to reach the WC. 46 days of RPing, with minimal breaks? I see no positive outcome in this. Another chance to burn players out on NS Sports RP. Should we also retain some level of individual hosts for NSRB 7s tournaments, this is detrimental to their RL commitments by forcing them to commit to a schedule that might not work for them in maintaining all aspects of their life. Again, major burn out.

I intend to open up sign ups to the AVBF 7s soon in order to give everyone a good chance to get in on the fun. If you decide to remove it from the NSRB schedule, I'd like to see a vote on that from the full NSRB membership instead of an elitist, arbitrary decision.

[Lisander]

I think this is, first of all, highly disingenuous to those who have been consistent in hosting NSRB 7's, mainly myself and Lisander.

He has a point. I can't say I'm really into give away URSA Sevens in a plate, and I must admit this is one of the reasons I offered myself as a assistant scorinator.

This also seems like more pressure than before. I have noted that it has been debated (in the respective thread) that the soccer/football WC cycle is too intense and not fun for many players. This plan would also turn the NSRB 7s Series into a similar high pressure situation to RP the tournament cycle in order to reach the WC. 46 days of RPing, with minimal breaks? I see no positive outcome in this. Another chance to burn players out on NS Sports RP. Should we also retain some level of individual hosts for NSRB 7s tournaments, this is detrimental to their RL commitments by forcing them to commit to a schedule that might not work for them in maintaining all aspects of their life. Again, major burn out.

Considering this I think we could have some more things in mind:

1 matchday per day: 1 match per day, in a Rugby Sevens Event, is quite awkward. In my humble opinion, having a roleplay day for every match is too much. It deviates from the quick nature of sevens. I believe the tournament spanning over a weekend would be good enough. Spanning over a weekend, we could have First round in Friday, Knockouts in Saturday and Finals on Sunday.

One tournament every 2-3 weeks: I believe two tournaments per month, like in the real World Rugby Sevens Series, would be a good choice. Preferably in each other weekend. It's a good time to roleplay in between.

[Elejamie]

Considering this I think we could have some more things in mind:

1 matchday per day: 1 match per day, in a Rugby Sevens Event, is quite awkward. In my humble opinion, having a roleplay day for every match is too much. It deviates from the quick nature of sevens. I believe the tournament spanning over a weekend would be good enough. Spanning over a weekend, we could have First round in Friday, Knockouts in Saturday and Finals in Sunday.

One tournament each 2-3 weeks: I believe two tournaments per month, like in the real World Rugby Sevens Series, would be a good choice. Preferably in each other weekend. It's a good time to roleplay in between.

Truth be told, I'd say that this would work better, especially the first point. Maybe if it doesn't make it into the sevens series the AVBF Sevens could still exist (EDIt: How did I miss that one?) as an NSRB-sanctioned tournament that would still affect rankings and all that but it'd exist as its own thing, a little bit like sevens at the Olympics or the Commonwealth games? I don't know either, I'm just trying to make sure everyone's not unhappy here.

[Apox]

One of the previous complaints had with the previous way the rugby cycle happened was that the emphasis had swung too much back in favour of sevens, although this may have been an unfair complaint with hindsight due to the nature of the way 7's is run compared to Union and League which just have one big WC rather than multiple tournaments.

Under Darmen's proposals, the 26-46 day length of seven's series would work for ensuring that under the current way of doing the NSRB cycle is fairly even between Union, League and Sevens. However, Neu Engollon raised the valid point that this will likely lead to burnout for those participating in the Sevens tournament and might be restrictive for those who have hosted a sevens tournament for many years.

It seems to me that perhaps the best solution would be to uncouple the Sevens from the Union/League cycle due to the differing nature of how sevens is run on here. To be clear, I am not suggesting that Sevens be stripped of being an NSRB level entity. However, it is deeply unfair to the other codes to run sevens as a series of events stretching over many months, with multiple tournaments, without the other codes having any NSRB level tournaments. There are people on NS who are only interested in participating in League events and people like me who are only really interested in participating in Union events.

Instead of running the cycle in a League - Union - Sevens order like we currently do, might it be more sensible to alternate between Union and League tournaments, whilst also (in a similar way to WGPC for example) running the Sevens cycle separately at a more relaxed pace, allowing for lack of burnout by spreading the season out. If this was a popular option, then I would also recommend taking Sevens out of the cycle for electing new NSRB Executive members so having elections every 2 Union/2 League cups.

[Apox]

So what are people's thoughts regarding sevens? It would be good to get a resolution on this so we can move forward with the next rugby tournament!

[Free Republics]

I've always felt that the union and league tournaments should both run at least twice a year. As infrequent as they have been run in the past 5 years or so, it doesn't really make sense to use rankings for them (for the same reason that the handball ranks have been reset twice due to hiatuses for that tournament).

I do agree that sevens should be decoupled from league and union. Years ago, there was actually an agreement at one point to scrap the sevens WC altogether so that union and league could alternate NSWC cycles. At the time, we had 4 NSWCs per year as opposed to the 2 per year we seem to be at right now. Since there's alot more interest in sevens now that it is an Olympic event, I think it makes sense to keep the sevens series intact but as a separate NSRB event run on its own schedule.

RUWC 20 happened around the same time as World Bowl 20. The World Bowl recently completed its 37th tournament. The last RUWC was the 27th. The RUWC I hosted an eternity ago still counts in the rankings. I don't think running 2 union, 2 league and a full sevens series in a year is impractical since NSWC qualifying (the part of that tournament that it makes sense to avoid) runs for roughly 6 weeks out of the year and a rugby WC needs approximately 2-3 weeks.

[Neu Engollon]

I would like to apologize for my rudeness. I'm sorry, especially to Darmen. While I still feel there are some serious inconsistencies and issues with the plan going forward, the way I expressed myself was not appropriate or the way I would like to represent myself.

I do feel that it is not fair to past NSRB administrations and dismissive to our time and effort put in to act as if we did nothing to keep the momentum going, or had little interest in our positions or taking input from members. The issue has always been interest. When comparing something like the football or gridiron WC/WB cycle it is like apples and oranges as the saying goes. What's not being factored into your time calculations is the amount of time it takes to get a decent amount of nations signed up for any rugby tournament to reach, not optimal, but a bare minimum for a decent tournament vs the much more full stable of willing participants for other major sports. There is always another sport that more than a handful of players have more invested in than rugby. Maybe it is that there is so much time between Cups, but in such case I would argue the other way around that the lack of interest creates the longer lapses between cycles. At the very least, it's a vicious cycle that one feeds into the other.

We end up with the same dozen or so nations competing, plus a new crop of maybe a dozen more that is likely to be CTE'd by the next cycle. See the issues above about timing with cycles. But also, another factor that ties into the the diminished appeal of rugby with the prioritization of other NS Sports is that no one is all that interested in putting much effort into rugby RP when there is some other sport happening at the same time that is more contentious and drawing more of a person's limited RP energy. I have been guilty of this, too, with other sports and with other forums.

I do agree that the sevens cycle should be decoupled from the League and Union cycle and I would go one step further that the League and Union cycles should be decoupled from each other, as well. They really are two different sports. I do not agree with the paring down of hosts or the speeding up of schedules for reasons I have stated previously. Mainly RP burnout from a speeded up schedule (also due to the above stated sports and tournaments that draw more of a player's attention) and eliminating the opportunity to bring in new hosting blood and also alienating dedicated hosts that have put in time and effort and are on a very short list of those even willing to find time to host a tournament.

I have more thoughts, but that's enough for now.

[Neu Engollon]

AVBF 5 is posted HERE.

We need one more sign up to even it out and launch.

[Neu Engollon]

Important AVBF Announcement

[Hutanjia]

It is time to officially announce the Talibati Rugby 7's Tournament into the NSRB 7s cycle. Hosted in a resort town on the central western coast of Nevorn island, the main island of Hutanjia, the hope is for the Talibati 7s to be a regular fixture on the NSRB Sevens cycle. Look for the sign ups for the first addition in late Feb/ early March 2020.

[Kelssek]

What would be the process for getting a Rugby (Union) World Cup started? As the RL equivalent is getting underway this would be a good time to hold one, and I would be interested in hosting.

[Ouna]

I saw mention further up about being a junior partner (I. E. Hosting/scorinating some events but not being official host). And would like to put myself forward for that if it becomes a thing.

I have experience with xkorinate, and hosting through my domestic football league, and actually hosted a RUWC way back in 2008. However I don't yet have a world fact book and other stuff sorted which I would want to have done before preparing a proper host bid for anything.

Just a little food for thought. I also would potentially do this through my Solenial account since I might have them be my rugby presence on this forum, but will have a think,.

[Neu Engollon]

I saw mention further up about being a junior partner (I. E. Hosting/scorinating some events but not being official host). And would like to put myself forward for that if it becomes a thing.

I have experience with xkorinate, and hosting through my domestic football league, and actually hosted a RUWC way back in 2008. However I don't yet have a world fact book and other stuff sorted which I would want to have done before preparing a proper host bid for anything.

Just a little food for thought. I also would potentially do this through my Solenial account since I might have them be my rugby presence on this forum, but will have a think,.

What was the name of your nation on NS back in 2008?

[Ouna]

Solenial

[Neu Engollon]

Solenial

Wow. So much for me noticing the obvious foundation date. Ouna is 3 years old, too. I feel pretty dumb right now.

[Solenial]

Haha its fine. I went away for a long time and a lot has changed with Nssports (in a good way) . A lot of my posts actually outdate this forum and are lost to history.

Also, just so it doesn't get buried, Kelssek was querying a RUWC further up? What is the current schedule?

[Neu Engollon]

Also, just so it doesn't get buried, Kelssek was querying a RUWC further up? What is the current schedule?

It's not buried, the Exec Board is working on answering that and they will get back to him. Unfortunately, I believe either the R7WC or RLWC is next on the schedule, not the Union WC.
However, there's nothing that says someone can't host a friendly union invitational or tour. I can't guarantee that players would get NSRB sanctioned rank out of it, but still, it's 15 sides action.

[Solenial]

Also, just so it doesn't get buried, Kelssek was querying a RUWC further up? What is the current schedule?

It's not buried, the Exec Board is working on answering that and they will get back to him. Unfortunately, I believe either the R7WC or RLWC is next on the schedule, not the Union WC.
However, there's nothing that says someone can't host a friendly union invitational or tour. I can't guarantee that players would get NSRB sanctioned rank out of it, but still, it's 15 sides action.

Thanks, just checking.

[Lisander]

I'll be opening signups for URSA Sevens/Linville Athletic RFC International Sevens in the following days.