Because first you must experiment on breaking them, of ridding them of their humanity. No humanity, easier to kill than a bug. The Holocaust showed us that.
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by Gormwood » Fri May 24, 2019 2:00 pm
Rea wrote:Liriena wrote:"I'm only torturing you to protect you from the hypothetical bigotry of your fellow countrymen" is truly a galaxy brain take.
They're sequestering them under less than ideal conditions not torturing them.
I disagree that solitary is a form of torture. Or else every state and federal prison in the US is guilty of it. And there would be massive purges of the corrections system if so.
by Rea » Fri May 24, 2019 2:02 pm
Destriustan wrote:Well this is just great. People trying to get into the "Land of the Free," are put into solitary confinement if they're mentally ill or gay. I didn't know that torture was still legal, but I guess it is.
by The Republic of Fore » Fri May 24, 2019 2:06 pm
by Ifreann » Fri May 24, 2019 2:07 pm
Rea wrote:Liriena wrote:"I'm only torturing you to protect you from the hypothetical bigotry of your fellow countrymen" is truly a galaxy brain take.
They're sequestering them under less than ideal conditions not torturing them.
I disagree that solitary is a form of torture. Or else every state and federal prison in the US is guilty of it. And there would be massive purges of the corrections system if so.
Rea wrote:Destriustan wrote:Well this is just great. People trying to get into the "Land of the Free," are put into solitary confinement if they're mentally ill or gay. I didn't know that torture was still legal, but I guess it is.
You would be just as outraged if they were just allowed to mix with the general detainee populace and got brutally murdered by their surprisingly intolerant countrymen.
by The Republic of Fore » Fri May 24, 2019 2:08 pm
by The Republic of Fore » Fri May 24, 2019 2:12 pm
Ifreann wrote:Rea wrote:
They're sequestering them under less than ideal conditions not torturing them.
I disagree that solitary is a form of torture. Or else every state and federal prison in the US is guilty of it. And there would be massive purges of the corrections system if so.
All of your prisons are guilty of torture, yes. And there should be massive purges of your prison system. But there won't be, because your government is fine with this form of torture. And some elements of your governments are fine with torture in general.Rea wrote:
You would be just as outraged if they were just allowed to mix with the general detainee populace and got brutally murdered by their surprisingly intolerant countrymen.
Probably would be, yeah. Personally I think that if the state is going to be taking people into its custody then in so doing it assumes a duty of care towards them. You put someone behind bars, they are your responsibility. You have to keep them alive, and healthy, both physically and mentally, or you let them fucking go.
by Necroghastia » Fri May 24, 2019 2:12 pm
by Ifreann » Fri May 24, 2019 2:12 pm
by Necroghastia » Fri May 24, 2019 2:13 pm
The Republic of Fore wrote:Ifreann wrote:All of your prisons are guilty of torture, yes. And there should be massive purges of your prison system. But there won't be, because your government is fine with this form of torture. And some elements of your governments are fine with torture in general.
Probably would be, yeah. Personally I think that if the state is going to be taking people into its custody then in so doing it assumes a duty of care towards them. You put someone behind bars, they are your responsibility. You have to keep them alive, and healthy, both physically and mentally, or you let them fucking go.
If you want to avoid solitary, you could try that revolutionary thing called not breaking the law. I've heard it works pretty well.
by Duhon » Fri May 24, 2019 2:13 pm
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri May 24, 2019 2:15 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by The Republic of Fore » Fri May 24, 2019 2:16 pm
by Duhon » Fri May 24, 2019 2:17 pm
Ifreann wrote:The Republic of Fore wrote:No, they don't deserve anything. Except for a free trip back home as soon as possible.
I've never found "deserve" to be a useful word. Who cares what people deserve? The government shouldn't torture people, even if they "deserve" it. The government should treat people humanely even if they don't "deserve" it.
by Novus America » Fri May 24, 2019 2:18 pm
Ifreann wrote:LiberNovusAmericae wrote:Rounding up illegal aliens is not on par with a massive purge of "undesirables" from society. This is not fascism; this is an agency that requires reform to make it more humane.
Rounding up people that you do not desire in your society is not on par with a massive purge of "undesirables" from society.Novus America wrote:
The Customs Service was never abolished. It was merged with the Border Patrol.
So if you want to “abolish ICE” by merging it with CBP cool, because that is the same thing I am saying.
Or abolish it like the INS by giving all its duties to different agencies.See memes are not a well thought out policy.
Instead of screaming “abolish ICE”
Who's screaming "abolish ICE"? It certainly isn't me. In fact I made the point that the problem isn't just ICE. Mostly I've been correcting the stupid assumption that without ICE the US would have open borders.how about an actually thought plan on how to reorganize our Customs and Immigration functions?
What, like "just merge ICE and CBP"? How is that going to address the gross mistreatment of people in ICE custody? What's to say that ICEBP, or whatever, won't also torture people?And most countries do fine with just one Customs agency.
Why does the US need two?
I didn't say it does. I'm inviting you to explain why they should be merged, since it's already the norm to have different organisations within the same field, like the different branches of the military, or the 18,000 different police agencies.
by The Republic of Fore » Fri May 24, 2019 2:18 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Necroghastia wrote:So... they're our problem.
Exactly. If you’re going to hold them until you can deport them, they become your problem for that timeframe and should be treated humanely. If there is no solid reason to put them in solitary confinement, don’t place them there. If they’re under your care until they are deported, treat them with some modicum of respect.
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri May 24, 2019 2:19 pm
The Republic of Fore wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Exactly. If you’re going to hold them until you can deport them, they become your problem for that timeframe and should be treated humanely. If there is no solid reason to put them in solitary confinement, don’t place them there. If they’re under your care until they are deported, treat them with some modicum of respect.
No, they should be treated however we choose. If they don't like it, they don't have to come here. There's no reason for us to show respect to people who did nothing to deserve it. Walking across the border doesn't get you special treatment.
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Duhon » Fri May 24, 2019 2:22 pm
The Republic of Fore wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Exactly. If you’re going to hold them until you can deport them, they become your problem for that timeframe and should be treated humanely. If there is no solid reason to put them in solitary confinement, don’t place them there. If they’re under your care until they are deported, treat them with some modicum of respect.
No, they should be treated however we choose. If they don't like it, they don't have to come here. There's no reason for us to show respect to people who did nothing to deserve it. Walking across the border doesn't get you special treatment.
by Necroghastia » Fri May 24, 2019 2:22 pm
The Republic of Fore wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Exactly. If you’re going to hold them until you can deport them, they become your problem for that timeframe and should be treated humanely. If there is no solid reason to put them in solitary confinement, don’t place them there. If they’re under your care until they are deported, treat them with some modicum of respect.
No, they should be treated however we choose. If they don't like it, they don't have to come here. There's no reason for us to show respect to people who did nothing to deserve it. Walking across the border doesn't get you special treatment.
by The Republic of Fore » Fri May 24, 2019 2:22 pm
Ifreann wrote:The Republic of Fore wrote:No, they don't deserve anything. Except for a free trip back home as soon as possible.
I've never found "deserve" to be a useful word. Who cares what people deserve? The government shouldn't torture people, even if they "deserve" it. The government should treat people humanely even if they don't "deserve" it.
by The Republic of Fore » Fri May 24, 2019 2:23 pm
Duhon wrote:The Republic of Fore wrote:No, they should be treated however we choose. If they don't like it, they don't have to come here. There's no reason for us to show respect to people who did nothing to deserve it. Walking across the border doesn't get you special treatment.
Indeed. Which is why you say shoot them all. Or torture them till they can't be recognized as human anymore (even as dirty filthy foreigners they still have humanity, and you can't have that, only you are human), then shoot them.
by Duhon » Fri May 24, 2019 2:23 pm
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:The Republic of Fore wrote:No, they should be treated however we choose. If they don't like it, they don't have to come here. There's no reason for us to show respect to people who did nothing to deserve it. Walking across the border doesn't get you special treatment.
No one is asking for special treatment. Just a modicum if respect, which we pretty much afford to all people, including criminals.
by Ifreann » Fri May 24, 2019 2:23 pm
Novus America wrote:Ifreann wrote:Rounding up people that you do not desire in your society is not on par with a massive purge of "undesirables" from society.
Or abolish it like the INS by giving all its duties to different agencies.
Who's screaming "abolish ICE"? It certainly isn't me. In fact I made the point that the problem isn't just ICE. Mostly I've been correcting the stupid assumption that without ICE the US would have open borders.
What, like "just merge ICE and CBP"? How is that going to address the gross mistreatment of people in ICE custody? What's to say that ICEBP, or whatever, won't also torture people?
I didn't say it does. I'm inviting you to explain why they should be merged, since it's already the norm to have different organisations within the same field, like the different branches of the military, or the 18,000 different police agencies.
Many people are screaming “abolish ICE”.
It is a common meme.
But good you agree it is stupid.
And yes waste and redundancy in the government is common.
That is why we should look at reducing the number of redundant organizations and consolidate many.
by Galloism » Fri May 24, 2019 2:24 pm
The Republic of Fore wrote:Duhon wrote:
Indeed. Which is why you say shoot them all. Or torture them till they can't be recognized as human anymore (even as dirty filthy foreigners they still have humanity, and you can't have that, only you are human), then shoot them.
Nobody has said any such thing. Stop fearmongering.
The Republic of Fore wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:
Exactly. If you’re going to hold them until you can deport them, they become your problem for that timeframe and should be treated humanely. If there is no solid reason to put them in solitary confinement, don’t place them there. If they’re under your care until they are deported, treat them with some modicum of respect.
No, they should be treated however we choose. If they don't like it, they don't have to come here. There's no reason for us to show respect to people who did nothing to deserve it. Walking across the border doesn't get you special treatment.
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