LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

[The Empire of Pretantia]

> Pick up a football.

Am I detecting toxic masculinity and enforcement of traditional gender roles? Shocking.

Turns out that jocks were the real comrades all along and nerds are first in line for the gulags.

That's how it's always been though.

[Liriena]

comrade dril oppressed a gamer

After doing a thorough review of the situation, this seems to be "fiction is reality and anime boobs is pedophilia" nonsense

Look, m'dude, just because your loli is technically a thousand-year-old demon doesn't mean we can let her body pillow sign a marriage certificate without parental consent.

[Torrocca]

After doing a thorough review of the situation, this seems to be "fiction is reality and anime boobs is pedophilia" nonsense

Look, m'dude, just because your loli is technically a thousand-year-old demon doesn't mean we can let her body pillow sign a marriage certificate without parental consent.

"But, your honor! She's a ten-thousand-year-old dragon girl! She just chooses to look, think, act, and talk like a nine-year-old! It's not pedophilia! It's art!"

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

> Pick up a football.

Am I detecting toxic masculinity and enforcement of traditional gender roles? Shocking.

Turns out that jocks were the real comrades all along and nerds are first in line for the gulags.

This conversation is giving me flashbacks to Johnathan McIntosh's The Adorkable Misogyny of The Big Bang Theory. For this reason, I will be reporting you.

[Cekoviu]

comrade dril oppressed a gamer

I love him even more now

[Ostroeuropa]

The entire debate is dumb and hinges on some pretty dodgy morality on the part of those criticizing loli.

Firstly you've got the fact that it's fictional and nobody is being harmed.
Secondly you've got the fact that, as has already been noted, often the character is not a child.

And a bunch of other stuff.

The problem with pedophilia is the disparity in the mind. Which is more objectionable, an 8 year old magicked into a 20 year olds body and then getting fucked, or a 20 year old into a 8 year olds body? If you answered the second one, there is something wrong with you, but that appears to be the ethical framework being utilized here. I.E, the objection is based around it being physically unattractive and it's bad if you find it physically attractive.

No. That's not the problem. It's not even A Problem. It's certainly not helpful to the discussion either, and is out of step with our other understanding of sex, sexuality, and consent. Basically all the complaints revolve around having certain prefernces being "Immoral.".

A feeling cannot be immoral.

Okay, so you find it gross. Get a grip? That's literally the same ethical framework people use to shut down gay sex on tv and so on. You should not be attacking people for their sexuality and making them feel bad for it, that's bad behavior.

You may as well be wailing about how people who legit masturbate to two girls one cup are ethically repugnant and them pretending its about public health concerns to cover up what you're actually doing.

Guess what. This is also why being a Furry is okay, and fucking animals isn't. I'd expect you to know that Liriena, but I guess not.

Let's say it's loli. It's even child loli. The anime boobs and all. The most extreme, explicit case you can think of.
It's still not a problem, because there is no actual victim here.

[Ostroeuropa]

Am I detecting toxic masculinity and enforcement of traditional gender roles? Shocking.

Did you notice the same crowd who used to virgin shame males for going against feminist nonsense are now dogwhistling virgin shaming by calling them "Incels" even when that isn't appropriate? I sure did.
Never assume these people are sincere in their stated principles.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

The entire debate is dumb and hinges on some pretty dodgy morality on the part of those criticizing loli.

Firstly you've got the fact that it's fictional and nobody is being harmed.
Secondly you've got the fact that, as has already been noted, often the character is not a child.

And a bunch of other stuff.

The problem with pedophilia is the disparity in the mind. Which is more objectionable, an 8 year old magicked into a 20 year olds body and then getting fucked, or a 20 year old into a 8 year olds body? If you answered the second one, there is something wrong with you, but that appears to be the ethical framework being utilized here. I.E, the objection is based around it being physically unattractive and it's bad if you find it physically attractive.

No. That's not the problem. It's not even A Problem. It's certainly not helpful to the discussion either, and is out of step with our other understanding of sex, sexuality, and consent. Basically all the complaints revolve around having certain prefernces being "Immoral.".

A feeling cannot be immoral.

Okay, so you find it gross. Get a grip? That's literally the same ethical framework people use to shut down gay sex on tv and so on. You should not be attacking people for their sexuality and making them feel bad for it, that's bad behavior.

You may as well be wailing about how people who legit masturbate to two girls one cup are ethically repugnant and them pretending its about public health concerns to cover up what you're actually doing.

Guess what. This is also why being a Furry is okay, and fucking animals isn't. I'd expect you to know that Liriena, but I guess not.

Let's say it's loli. It's even child loli. The anime boobs and all. The most extreme, explicit case you can think of.
It's still not a problem, because there is no actual victim here.

Those are good points, but if you are attracted to looking at "lolis" specifically there's no getting around the fact that that is pretty pedophilic.

[Crysuko]

Whats amazing that former liberals, once they are getting against the system, are much more filled with rage an anger than those amongst us who had beforehand some kind of distance towards their former beliefs and worldview.

I forget who was behind the quote, that you'll not find a more outspoken critic of a system than those who supported it and recently turned against it.

comrade dril oppressed a gamer

> Pick up a football.

Am I detecting toxic masculinity and enforcement of traditional gender roles? Shocking.

have any more gender shaming buzzwords?

[Ostroeuropa]

The entire debate is dumb and hinges on some pretty dodgy morality on the part of those criticizing loli.

Firstly you've got the fact that it's fictional and nobody is being harmed.
Secondly you've got the fact that, as has already been noted, often the character is not a child.

And a bunch of other stuff.

The problem with pedophilia is the disparity in the mind. Which is more objectionable, an 8 year old magicked into a 20 year olds body and then getting fucked, or a 20 year old into a 8 year olds body? If you answered the second one, there is something wrong with you, but that appears to be the ethical framework being utilized here. I.E, the objection is based around it being physically unattractive and it's bad if you find it physically attractive.

No. That's not the problem. It's not even A Problem. It's certainly not helpful to the discussion either, and is out of step with our other understanding of sex, sexuality, and consent. Basically all the complaints revolve around having certain prefernces being "Immoral.".

A feeling cannot be immoral.

Okay, so you find it gross. Get a grip? That's literally the same ethical framework people use to shut down gay sex on tv and so on. You should not be attacking people for their sexuality and making them feel bad for it, that's bad behavior.

You may as well be wailing about how people who legit masturbate to two girls one cup are ethically repugnant and them pretending its about public health concerns to cover up what you're actually doing.

Guess what. This is also why being a Furry is okay, and fucking animals isn't. I'd expect you to know that Liriena, but I guess not.

Let's say it's loli. It's even child loli. The anime boobs and all. The most extreme, explicit case you can think of.
It's still not a problem, because there is no actual victim here.

Those are good points, but if you are attracted to looking at "lolis" specifically there's no getting around the fact that that is pretty pedophilic.

*shrug*
Not particularly. If you're attracted on sight then yes, but a significant part of attraction is mannerism and personality based. In this case, especially as you've dumped a non-child personality in there, it's entirely possible to find a character attractive without being a pedophile.

If you dumped a certain personality type into a spider and I spent time with them the thought of trying to figure out how to fuck it would probably cross my mind, but i'm not attracted to spiders.
Honestly, have you seen Bleach?

People were talking about wanting to fuck that cat even before it turned into an adult hot as fuck woman. That was the joke the writers pulled.

As a general rule if they're attracted on sight, or attracted to childlike personality traits, that's the red flag.

Think up a fictional character who you simply find magnetising and alluring. Now dump that personality in the loli body, and keep the mannerisms. Is It attractive? You might even find it less attractive, but it'll probably still be attractive to some extent.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Those are good points, but if you are attracted to looking at "lolis" specifically there's no getting around the fact that that is pretty pedophilic.

*shrug*
Not particularly. If you're attracted on sight then yes, but a significant part of attraction is mannerism and personality based. In this case, especially as you've dumped a non-child personality in there, it's entirely possible to find a character attractive without being a pedophile.

If you dumped a certain personality type into a spider and I spent time with them the thought of trying to figure out how to fuck it would probably cross my mind, but i'm not attracted to spiders.

As a general rule if they're attracted on sight, or attracted to childlike personality traits, that's the red flag.

I mean, if you're attracted to lolis along with adult anime girls then that's okay, it's just if you specifically prefer lolis that red flags are raised, in my opinion.

[Ostroeuropa]

*shrug*
Not particularly. If you're attracted on sight then yes, but a significant part of attraction is mannerism and personality based. In this case, especially as you've dumped a non-child personality in there, it's entirely possible to find a character attractive without being a pedophile.

If you dumped a certain personality type into a spider and I spent time with them the thought of trying to figure out how to fuck it would probably cross my mind, but i'm not attracted to spiders.

As a general rule if they're attracted on sight, or attracted to childlike personality traits, that's the red flag.

I mean, if you're attracted to lolis along with adult anime girls then that's okay, it's just if you specifically prefer lolis that red flags are raised, in my opinion.

I'm not denying there's red flags to be had here, i'm objecting to the totalizing narrative being advanced on the issue, as well as the general "anime boobs" thing feminists are pushing out of a hatred for male sexuality being different from female sexuality and refusing to accept that men and women are different, and women are not more ethical and the default men should aspire to with any differences being down to the evil patriarchy.

[Ostroeuropa]

Here's an example of some traits of a character and things one loli character did in the show "The Abyss"

1. SCIENCE! HaAhAHahaAHahaHAHahaAhAHAhahaAHHAahAHah. (Mad scientist girl.).
2. Let's go on an adventure into that fucking Cthulhu pit. Why? To see what's in it.
3. Coldly decides to bait and switch a horrible monster into eating her classmates so she can get away with no signs of trauma.
4. Threatens people with a knife.
5. We have to keep going further into the pit, and if you don't want to, that's a problem for all of us. For us. For me. Keep. Walking.
6. Sacrifices some more classmates
7. Oh yeah I was born in the Cthulhu pit but i'm sure it's fine.
8. HMM. SCIENCE.
9. Let's euthanize some people.
10. Oh god, my arm, it is poisoned. It'll need to be cut off. No, no, don't do it at the joint. I know that's easier, but hear me out. If I keep the joint, i'll have more articulation in the arm afterward, so what I need you to do, is break my arm, then saw it off through the break.
11. You've been experimenting on children? Neat! What did you find out? Can I see your data set?

These are not childlike qualities.

Another example, arguably, is Yuno Gasai. Who is basically just Yandere Ur Example, which some men find attractive because the notion of a girl psychotically into you appeals to them.

Often, the loli archetype or underage girl characters are utilized because it's a way for a character to get away with some really fucked up shit and still remain sympathetic. Some people find evil alluring in a "Bad girls" sort of way, similar to "Bad boys".

When deciding if loli is pedophilic, you should probably ask yourself:
does the person in question find the personality type of actual children attractive.

[Crysuko]

Here's an example of some traits of a character and things one loli character did in the show "The Abyss"

1. SCIENCE! HaAhAHahaAHahaHAHahaAhAHAhahaAHHAahAHah. (Mad scientist girl.).
2. Let's go on an adventure into that fucking Cthulhu pit. Why? To see what's in it.
3. Coldly decides to bait and switch a horrible monster into eating her classmates so she can get away with no signs of trauma.
4. Threatens people with a knife.
5. We have to keep going further into the pit, and if you don't want to, that's a problem for all of us. For us. For me. Keep. Walking.
6. Sacrifices some more classmates
7. Oh yeah I was born in the Cthulhu pit but i'm sure it's fine.
8. HMM. SCIENCE.
9. Let's euthanize some people.
10. Oh god, my arm, it is poisoned. It'll need to be cut off. No, no, don't do it at the joint. I know that's easier, but hear me out. If I keep the joint, i'll have more articulation in the arm afterward, so what I need you to do, is break my arm, then saw it off through the break.
11. You've been experimenting on children? Neat! What did you find out? Can I see your data set?

These are not childlike qualities.

Another example, arguably, is Yuno Gasai. Who is basically just Yandere Ur Example, which some men find attractive because the notion of a girl psychotically into you appeals to them.

Often, the loli archetype or underage girl characters are utilized because it's a way for a character to get away with some really fucked up shit and still remain sympathetic. Some people find evil alluring in a "Bad girls" sort of way, similar to "Bad boys".

When deciding if loli is pedophilic, you should probably ask yourself:
does the person in question find the personality type of actual children attractive.

as any pedo who's been put behind bars will tell you, "but she consented" or "but she was more mature" isn't a defence any jury will take seriously.

[Ostroeuropa]

as any pedo who's been put behind bars will tell you, "but she consented" or "but she was more mature" isn't a defence any jury will take seriously.

In those cases, there is:

1. An Actual child involved
and
2. an Actual childs personality and mind involved

So it doesn't exactly count. Do you think a 20 year olds mind put into a childs body is capable of consent? Do you think an 8 year olds mind put into an adult body can consent?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

I mean, if you're attracted to lolis along with adult anime girls then that's okay, it's just if you specifically prefer lolis that red flags are raised, in my opinion.

I'm not denying there's red flags to be had here, i'm objecting to the totalizing narrative being advanced on the issue, as well as the general "anime boobs" thing feminists are pushing out of a hatred for male sexuality being different from female sexuality and refusing to accept that men and women are different, and women are not more ethical and the default men should aspire to with any differences being down to the evil patriarchy.

Yeah, prohibiting lolis is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, but saying that it's a result of some sort of misandry seems like a reach.

[Ostroeuropa]

I'm not denying there's red flags to be had here, i'm objecting to the totalizing narrative being advanced on the issue, as well as the general "anime boobs" thing feminists are pushing out of a hatred for male sexuality being different from female sexuality and refusing to accept that men and women are different, and women are not more ethical and the default men should aspire to with any differences being down to the evil patriarchy.

Yeah, prohibiting lolis is a bit of a stretch in my opinion, but saying that it's a result of some sort of misandry seems like a reach.

That's more about the anime boobs thing than the loli thing. Because there you've got the visual element of mens sexuality being demonized because it is different to womens sexuality.

[Asherahan]

I have read some Loli hentai some are good some are so bad that I question my will to live.

To begin with I mostly read Milf Netorare so the loli thing is not my cup of tea.

Also on the subject of should loli be legal? Well its art and nobody real is getting hurt. And no I do not think it is some gateway drug into becoming a pedo.

[North German Realm]

Honestly, while I view lolicons are distasteful at best (and a few expletives I dare not mention on this site at worst), it's in reality just fucking irrelevant for the larger picture. The myth that "pedophilic or pedophile-looking media will help the pedophiles not act on their fucking urges" is just a myth, but honestly? Don't we have bigger fish to fry at this point?

[Torrocca]

The entire debate is dumb and hinges on some pretty dodgy morality on the part of those criticizing loli.

I'm gonna stop you right there, chief.

First and fore-fucking-most, there's literally nothing "dodgy" about criticizing the depiction of kids being sexualized and/or literally fucked, animated or not. Secondly, there's the fact of the matter that both the normalization of pedophilia by accepting loli and the concept of supply and demand exist, which means that A) pedophiles who might not previously go after children because of societal norms might very well be emboldened to actually fucking do it if society allows pedophilic media to be consumed in the form of animated bullshit, and B) demand for more and more extreme forms of child sexualization/fucking very easily could rise to a fuckton more child porn than already exists.

All in all, whatever defense you're making for lolicon is bullshit.

[Liriena]

Turns out that jocks were the real comrades all along and nerds are first in line for the gulags.

This conversation is giving me flashbacks to Johnathan McIntosh's The Adorkable Misogyny of The Big Bang Theory. For this reason, I will be reporting you.

Oh man, I remember that video. I still liked the one about military propaganda more, though.

[Ostroeuropa]

The entire debate is dumb and hinges on some pretty dodgy morality on the part of those criticizing loli.

I'm gonna stop you right there, chief.

First and fore-fucking-most, there's literally nothing "dodgy" about criticizing the depiction of kids being sexualized and/or literally fucked, animated or not. Secondly, there's the fact of the matter that both the normalization of pedophilia by accepting loli and the concept of supply and demand exist, which means that A) pedophiles who might not previously go after children because of societal norms might very well be emboldened to actually fucking do it if society allows pedophilic media to be consumed in the form of animated bullshit, and B) demand for more and more extreme forms of child sexualization/fucking very easily could rise to a fuckton more child porn than already exists.

All in all, whatever defense you're making for lolicon is bullshit.

Do you have any actual evidence or any of these claims of yours, like scientific evidence, or is it just assertions based in your worldview that the overwhelming majority of people are sick of and think is broken already?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

This conversation is giving me flashbacks to Johnathan McIntosh's The Adorkable Misogyny of The Big Bang Theory. For this reason, I will be reporting you.

Oh man, I remember that video. I still liked the one about military propaganda more, though.

I like skinny dipping in acid more, though.

[Liriena]

The entire debate is dumb and hinges on some pretty dodgy morality on the part of those criticizing loli.

Firstly you've got the fact that it's fictional and nobody is being harmed.
Secondly you've got the fact that, as has already been noted, often the character is not a child.

And a bunch of other stuff.

The problem with pedophilia is the disparity in the mind. Which is more objectionable, an 8 year old magicked into a 20 year olds body and then getting fucked, or a 20 year old into a 8 year olds body? If you answered the second one, there is something wrong with you, but that appears to be the ethical framework being utilized here. I.E, the objection is based around it being physically unattractive and it's bad if you find it physically attractive.

No. That's not the problem. It's not even A Problem. It's certainly not helpful to the discussion either, and is out of step with our other understanding of sex, sexuality, and consent. Basically all the complaints revolve around having certain prefernces being "Immoral.".

A feeling cannot be immoral.

Okay, so you find it gross. Get a grip? That's literally the same ethical framework people use to shut down gay sex on tv and so on. You should not be attacking people for their sexuality and making them feel bad for it, that's bad behavior.

You may as well be wailing about how people who legit masturbate to two girls one cup are ethically repugnant and them pretending its about public health concerns to cover up what you're actually doing.

Guess what. This is also why being a Furry is okay, and fucking animals isn't. I'd expect you to know that Liriena, but I guess not.

Let's say it's loli. It's even child loli. The anime boobs and all. The most extreme, explicit case you can think of.
It's still not a problem, because there is no actual victim here.

You do have a point on the fact that, at least in principle, attraction to lolis (or shotas) is a victimless crime that's not even a crime in the first place and, yeah, innermost feelings, attractions, aren't immoral.

That said... there is an inherent silliness to the "protecc muh infantile anime waifu" brand of anti-SJWism that's worth mocking. It's dorky as fuck, specially when framed in terms of "I'm gonna cheer for homophobic censorship because it makes 'SJWs' mad and they allegedly took my video game lolis away".

[Torrocca]

I'm gonna stop you right there, chief.

First and fore-fucking-most, there's literally nothing "dodgy" about criticizing the depiction of kids being sexualized and/or literally fucked, animated or not. Secondly, there's the fact of the matter that both the normalization of pedophilia by accepting loli and the concept of supply and demand exist, which means that A) pedophiles who might not previously go after children because of societal norms might very well be emboldened to actually fucking do it if society allows pedophilic media to be consumed in the form of animated bullshit, and B) demand for more and more extreme forms of child sexualization/fucking very easily could rise to a fuckton more child porn than already exists.

All in all, whatever defense you're making for lolicon is bullshit.

Do you have any actual evidence or any of these claims of yours, like scientific evidence, or is it just assertions based in your worldview that the overwhelming majority of people are sick of and think is broken already?

Literally just look at any fucking scenario where the supply and demand for something have been normalized and/or legalized ffs, like holy shit this isn't rocket science. If you normalize something like pedophilia through the accepted consumption of animated acts of child sexualization/porn, then the fucking logical outcome is an inevitable increase in actual child sexualization/porn.