The Christian Discussion Thread X: Originally there were 15

[The Archregimancy]

Why is Roman Catholicism and Eastern Orthodoxy so popular in this forum? This seems really disproportionate compared to the general internet using population.

Catholicism is quite prevalent in the Americas outside of the US (as well as parts of the east coast of the US) and in Southern Europe, and it's the largest Christian denomination worldwide. As for Eastern Orthodoxy, perhaps that's a result of immigrants using the site?

There's nothing remarkable about the figures.

This is an international site with a broad range of backgrounds represented, though any English-language site will necessarily have a strong North American demographic.

Going by the NSG poll for this site, Gallup figures for the United States, and Pew Research Centre figures for international demographics (with the latter likely far more reliable for their data set), and rounding to the nearest whole number, Catholics are underrepresented on this site compared to their global share of Christianity (50%), but overrepresented compared to their share of US Christianity (23%). The NSG 34% share therefore seems reasonable given that this is an international site with a strong (but not necessarily as dominant as Xenopolis Confederation seems to assume) North American core.

As to Orthodox Christians, our 10% share on this marginally below our global share of Christianity according to Pew (12%). Gallup is useless here for the United States since it folds us in with Protestants as 'Protestant/Other Christian' in opposition to Catholics (which likely leaves both Protestants and Orthodox equally bemused). It's also difficult to count how many Orthodox Christians there are in North America; I've seen estimates across the US and Canada of up to 6 million, but as low as 2 million; so we're roughly 1% of the US population. If the US is your metric, then we're certainly more overrepresented than Catholics are, though still slightly underrepresented compared to our global share. But note that Orthodox Christians in the United States tend to be better-educated and have a higher income than other Christian groups, which may lead to us being overrepresented among American users on an internet forum relative to some other Christians.

It also goes without saying that Orthodox Christians are wittier, more attractive, more debonair, and more sophisticated than Catholics, and every word we write sparkles with a coruscating brilliance beyond the ken of mere Protestants; which is why we might be more noticeable here. But presumably you don't need any data to back up such a self-evident assertion.

Short version: I see nothing particularly remarkable in the representation of the two largest Christian denominations in this thread given that it's an international forum.

[Nea Byzantia]

Catholicism is quite prevalent in the Americas outside of the US (as well as parts of the east coast of the US) and in Southern Europe, and it's the largest Christian denomination worldwide. As for Eastern Orthodoxy, perhaps that's a result of immigrants using the site?

There's nothing remarkable about the figures.

This is an international site with a broad range of backgrounds represented, though any English-language site will necessarily have a strong North American demographic.

Going by the NSG poll for this site, Gallup figures for the United States, and Pew Research Centre figures for international demographics (with the latter likely far more reliable for their data set), and rounding to the nearest whole number, Catholics are underrepresented on this site compared to their global share of Christianity (50%), but overrepresented compared to their share of US Christianity (23%). The NSG 34% share therefore seems reasonable given that this is an international site with a strong (but not necessarily as dominant as Xenopolis Confederation seems to assume) North American core.

As to Orthodox Christians, our 10% share on this marginally below our global share of Christianity according to Pew (12%). Gallup is useless here for the United States since it folds us in with Protestants as 'Protestant/Other Christian' in opposition to Catholics (which likely leaves both Protestants and Orthodox equally bemused). It's also difficult to count how many Orthodox Christians there are in North America; I've seen estimates across the US and Canada of up to 6 million, but as low as 2 million; so we're roughly 1% of the US population. If the US is your metric, then we're certainly more overrepresented than Catholics are, though still slightly underrepresented compared to our global share. But note that Orthodox Christians in the United States tend to be better-educated and have a higher income than other Christian groups, which may lead to us being overrepresented among American users on an internet forum relative to some other Christians.

It also goes without saying that Orthodox Christians are wittier, more attractive, more debonair, and more sophisticated than Catholics, and every word we write sparkles with a coruscating brilliance beyond the ken of mere Protestants; which is why we might be more noticeable here. But presumably you don't need any data to back up such a self-evident assertion.

Short version: I see nothing particularly remarkable in the representation of the two largest Christian denominations in this thread given that it's an international forum.

Well said.

[The Archregimancy]

That's what I find weird. Much of this forum would be from America which is mostly Protestant. The rest would be from other English speaking countries, most of which would have more Protestants. And eastern orthodoxy... Do we really have that many eastern Europeans in NSG?

Not only Eastern Europeans are Eastern Orthodox; there are plenty of Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, and other Middle Easterners who are Eastern Orthodox

Alright, I've only been in Cairo for two days now, but...

There have been very few Egyptian Eastern Orthodox Christians since Nasser's nationalisation programme in the 1950s led to most of the Greeks leaving.

The Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria (not to be confused with the Coptic Patriarchate of Alexandria, of course) maintains its historical presence in the country; and I hope to visit the patriarchal church (confusingly located in Coptic Cairo) this weekend, heat permitting.

But of the estimated c.350,000 Orthodox Christians in Egypt, most are recent arrivals from Syria and Lebanon; fewer than 5000 are Egyptian citizens from the historical Greek-speaking population that made up the majority of local Orthodox Christians between the Council of Chalcedon and the mid-20th century (though they don't face the same active hostility here that their counterparts in Turkey do).

[Nea Byzantia]

Not only Eastern Europeans are Eastern Orthodox; there are plenty of Egyptians, Syrians, Lebanese, and other Middle Easterners who are Eastern Orthodox

Alright, I've only been in Cairo for two days now, but...

There have been very few Egyptian Eastern Orthodox Christians since Nasser's nationalisation programme in the 1950s led to most of the Greeks leaving.

The Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria (not to be confused with the Coptic Patriarchate of Alexandria, of course) maintains its historical presence in the country; and I hope to visit the patriarchal church (confusingly located in Coptic Cairo) this weekend, heat permitting.

But of the estimated c.350,000 Orthodox Christians in Egypt, most are recent arrivals from Syria and Lebanon; fewer than 5000 are Egyptian citizens from the historical Greek-speaking population that made up the majority of local Orthodox Christians between the Council of Chalcedon and the mid-20th century (though they don't face the same active hostility here that their counterparts in Turkey do).

But my point does apply, no? I appreciate the caveat, but it doesn't take away from my point, does it?

[Pope Joan]

Catholicism is quite prevalent in the Americas outside of the US (as well as parts of the east coast of the US) and in Southern Europe, and it's the largest Christian denomination worldwide. As for Eastern Orthodoxy, perhaps that's a result of immigrants using the site?

There's nothing remarkable about the figures.

This is an international site with a broad range of backgrounds represented, though any English-language site will necessarily have a strong North American demographic.

Going by the NSG poll for this site, Gallup figures for the United States, and Pew Research Centre figures for international demographics (with the latter likely far more reliable for their data set), and rounding to the nearest whole number, Catholics are underrepresented on this site compared to their global share of Christianity (50%), but overrepresented compared to their share of US Christianity (23%). The NSG 34% share therefore seems reasonable given that this is an international site with a strong (but not necessarily as dominant as Xenopolis Confederation seems to assume) North American core.

As to Orthodox Christians, our 10% share on this marginally below our global share of Christianity according to Pew (12%). Gallup is useless here for the United States since it folds us in with Protestants as 'Protestant/Other Christian' in opposition to Catholics (which likely leaves both Protestants and Orthodox equally bemused). It's also difficult to count how many Orthodox Christians there are in North America; I've seen estimates across the US and Canada of up to 6 million, but as low as 2 million; so we're roughly 1% of the US population. If the US is your metric, then we're certainly more overrepresented than Catholics are, though still slightly underrepresented compared to our global share. But note that Orthodox Christians in the United States tend to be better-educated and have a higher income than other Christian groups, which may lead to us being overrepresented among American users on an internet forum relative to some other Christians.

It also goes without saying that Orthodox Christians are wittier, more attractive, more debonair, and more sophisticated than Catholics, and every word we write sparkles with a coruscating brilliance beyond the ken of mere Protestants; which is why we might be more noticeable here. But presumably you don't need any data to back up such a self-evident assertion.

Short version: I see nothing particularly remarkable in the representation of the two largest Christian denominations in this thread given that it's an international forum.

Could it be possible that Orthodox NSG folks came to the site because they are interested in a variety of cultures? If you look at the Middle East, northern Africa and elsewhere, Orthodox faith is well represented, along with the Church of England. So, a believer from Greece or Russia. let's say, night be more interested in life and thought in Eritria or Tangiers than others might. Also there is great variety among national churches. In one medium sized city where we lived there were Orthodox churches named Greek, Russian, Byzantine, Syrian, Macedonian, Ukrainian, Serbian (quite strong there) and more. This might create in their members a desire to learn more about these other nations.

[Ndaku]

I just wish we didn't have any of this controversy in the first place. We're all brothers and sisters aren't we?

We ought to be, but we're not all on the same page.

All who believe and follow Him ARE the Church, because if we receive Him, He is in us, and that includes His kingdom. What will bind all of us is love, which is admonition, correction, mercy, etc. It's our faith in Him that should bind us together, so there ought not to be 'different' ways to worship God because we all ought to obey the One who's words NEVER pass away.

[The Archregimancy]

Alright, I've only been in Cairo for two days now, but...

There have been very few Egyptian Eastern Orthodox Christians since Nasser's nationalisation programme in the 1950s led to most of the Greeks leaving.

The Orthodox Patriarchate of Alexandria (not to be confused with the Coptic Patriarchate of Alexandria, of course) maintains its historical presence in the country; and I hope to visit the patriarchal church (confusingly located in Coptic Cairo) this weekend, heat permitting.

But of the estimated c.350,000 Orthodox Christians in Egypt, most are recent arrivals from Syria and Lebanon; fewer than 5000 are Egyptian citizens from the historical Greek-speaking population that made up the majority of local Orthodox Christians between the Council of Chalcedon and the mid-20th century (though they don't face the same active hostility here that their counterparts in Turkey do).

But my point does apply, no? I appreciate the caveat, but it doesn't take away from my point, does it?

Your basic point is sound. I just wouldn't include Egyptians in the list of Middle Eastern Christians who are Orthodox; as your own post touched upon, traditionally Egyptians are non-Chalcedonian Copts. I would, however, include Jordanians and Palestinians (admittedly both covered by the 'other Middle Easterners').

[Pope Joan]

We ought to be, but we're not all on the same page.

All who believe and follow Him ARE the Church, because if we receive Him, He is in us, and that includes His kingdom. What will bind all of us is love, which is admonition, correction, mercy, etc. It's our faith in Him that should bind us together, so there ought not to be 'different' ways to worship God because we all ought to obey the One who's words NEVER pass away.

In Isaiah, I read that God hates and despises our sacred feasts and new moons, which were among the official rituals of that time. He also does not care about burnt offerings, although that was central to Temple worship.

So maybe how we worship is not really that important to God.

Instead of the rituals, we are told to cherish justice and mercy. and caring for the widow and orphan

[Camelone]

We ought to be, but we're not all on the same page.

All who believe and follow Him ARE the Church, because if we receive Him, He is in us, and that includes His kingdom. What will bind all of us is love, which is admonition, correction, mercy, etc. It's our faith in Him that should bind us together, so there ought not to be 'different' ways to worship God because we all ought to obey the One who's words NEVER pass away.

That’s all good for generalities but when you get into the specifics yeah things get more complicated. How does one worship? Who is Jesus Christ? How do we maintain the Truth? Etc, etc. There is a lot to those divisions and the division is most obviously seen between High Church Christians and Low Church Christians, they can’t just be brushed off.

[Camelone]

All who believe and follow Him ARE the Church, because if we receive Him, He is in us, and that includes His kingdom. What will bind all of us is love, which is admonition, correction, mercy, etc. It's our faith in Him that should bind us together, so there ought not to be 'different' ways to worship God because we all ought to obey the One who's words NEVER pass away.

In Isaiah, I read that God hates and despises our sacred feasts and new moons, which were among the official rituals of that time. He also does not care about burnt offerings, although that was central to Temple worship.

So maybe how we worship is not really that important to God.

Instead of the rituals, we are told to cherish justice and mercy. and caring for the widow and orphan

Isaiah was during a time when Israel went whoring after other ‘gods’ and did not abide by the Word and Law of God.

[Pope Joan]

In Isaiah, I read that God hates and despises our sacred feasts and new moons, which were among the official rituals of that time. He also does not care about burnt offerings, although that was central to Temple worship.

So maybe how we worship is not really that important to God.

Instead of the rituals, we are told to cherish justice and mercy. and caring for the widow and orphan

Isaiah was during a time when Israel went whoring after other ‘gods’ and did not abide by the Word and Law of God.

Isiah is not talking in those passages about idolatry, which he addresses elsewhere. He is talking about the official Hebrew worship, which adherents believed was making them righteous

[Lost Memories]

Catholicism is quite prevalent in the Americas outside of the US (as well as parts of the east coast of the US) and in Southern Europe, and it's the largest Christian denomination worldwide. As for Eastern Orthodoxy, perhaps that's a result of immigrants using the site?

There's nothing remarkable about the figures.

This is an international site with a broad range of backgrounds represented, though any English-language site will necessarily have a strong North American demographic.

Going by the NSG poll for this site, Gallup figures for the United States, and Pew Research Centre figures for international demographics (with the latter likely far more reliable for their data set), and rounding to the nearest whole number, Catholics are underrepresented on this site compared to their global share of Christianity (50%), but overrepresented compared to their share of US Christianity (23%). The NSG 34% share therefore seems reasonable given that this is an international site with a strong (but not necessarily as dominant as Xenopolis Confederation seems to assume) North American core.

As to Orthodox Christians, our 10% share on this marginally below our global share of Christianity according to Pew (12%). Gallup is useless here for the United States since it folds us in with Protestants as 'Protestant/Other Christian' in opposition to Catholics (which likely leaves both Protestants and Orthodox equally bemused). It's also difficult to count how many Orthodox Christians there are in North America; I've seen estimates across the US and Canada of up to 6 million, but as low as 2 million; so we're roughly 1% of the US population. If the US is your metric, then we're certainly more overrepresented than Catholics are, though still slightly underrepresented compared to our global share. But note that Orthodox Christians in the United States tend to be better-educated and have a higher income than other Christian groups, which may lead to us being overrepresented among American users on an internet forum relative to some other Christians.

[snip]

Short version: I see nothing particularly remarkable in the representation of the two largest Christian denominations in this thread given that it's an international forum.

Thanks for summarizing, once again, how christianity in US and in the whole world aren't distributed in the same way, and how this forum is a middleground between being US centric and more globally representative.

The cyclic question about non-protestants being overrepresented in this discussion, makes it sound as some americans have a very territorially limited understanding of christianity, which doesn't allow them see the scope of christianity over the whole world.

[Ndaku]

All who believe and follow Him ARE the Church, because if we receive Him, He is in us, and that includes His kingdom. What will bind all of us is love, which is admonition, correction, mercy, etc. It's our faith in Him that should bind us together, so there ought not to be 'different' ways to worship God because we all ought to obey the One who's words NEVER pass away.

In Isaiah, I read that God hates and despises our sacred feasts and new moons, which were among the official rituals of that time. He also does not care about burnt offerings, although that was central to Temple worship.

So maybe how we worship is not really that important to God.

Instead of the rituals, we are told to cherish justice and mercy. and caring for the widow and orphan

Right, and it must be done out of pure love for Him not that one should boast.

All who believe and follow Him ARE the Church, because if we receive Him, He is in us, and that includes His kingdom. What will bind all of us is love, which is admonition, correction, mercy, etc. It's our faith in Him that should bind us together, so there ought not to be 'different' ways to worship God because we all ought to obey the One who's words NEVER pass away.

That’s all good for generalities but when you get into the specifics yeah things get more complicated. How does one worship? Who is Jesus Christ? How do we maintain the Truth? Etc, etc. There is a lot to those divisions and the division is most obviously seen between High Church Christians and Low Church Christians, they can’t just be brushed off.

These things should come from the Word of God. If one should ask:
1. How does one worship? Worshipping God should be a natural act, for we were made for Him. When your hope and joy is anchored in Him, then to worship and praise Him should not be something made complicated. I Chronicles 16:7-43 is one of many places where a reader of the Word of God can be exposed to the worship of God in the Bible. There are tons more in Psalms.

2. Who is Jesus Christ? One should refer to Colossians 1:9-29, where Paul describes the preeminence of Christ in great depth. Another place one could see who Jesus is would be

'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ” And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.'

3. How do we maintain the Truth? One ought to refer to

'“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. These things I command you, that you love one another.'

To maintain the truth, we ought to walk as He walked. To be made pure, we ought to repent and ask Him for forgiveness and be guided by Him through the Holy Spirit, and He'll set our paths straight.

All of this is really putting faith into action, and I agree it isn't easy, but because we're weak, He is strong. So whatever we do, we ought to do it in His name. We shouldn't be divided, but we ought to be united under His grace, because that's how we'll be in heaven. We must be led by the Holy Spirit in all we do.

[Tarsonis]

Isaiah was during a time when Israel went whoring after other ‘gods’ and did not abide by the Word and Law of God.

Isiah is not talking in those passages about idolatry, which he addresses elsewhere. He is talking about the official Hebrew worship, which adherents believed was making them righteous

True but I think you’re misunderstanding Isaiah’s lament. Offerings are taken quite seriously and are very important. One of the reasons Israel falls to the Assyrians is because they made sacrifices “in the high places” rather than the temple as they were supposed to. Priests who entered the Holiest of Holies had to have a rope tied around their waste, because if they screwed up the ritual it was very likely they’d be struck dead. Isaiah’s lament shouldn’t be taken to say that God doesn’t care about sacrifices, but rather that the disobedience of Judah eclipsed the sacrifices they were offering. They did not obey God, but thought it was okay because they were making sacrifices. Clearly not the case. Repentance must be genuine, or it’s meaningless. Confession means nothing if you’re not really contrite.

[Camelone]

Isaiah was during a time when Israel went whoring after other ‘gods’ and did not abide by the Word and Law of God.

Isiah is not talking in those passages about idolatry, which he addresses elsewhere. He is talking about the official Hebrew worship, which adherents believed was making them righteous

I was at work and couldn’t really look those passages up during my 15 minute break. I’ll expand a little now on my meaning. The Temple worship was not pleasing to God not because of the act, which He had ordered throughout the Old Testament, but instead because the worship was being used in a wrong manner. How could the worship be pleasing to Him if the next moment they run off and do something contrary to His will without any thought? Worship was still important but it had to be done properly with the proper state of mind, true contrition vs. legalism.

[Camelone]

That’s all good for generalities but when you get into the specifics yeah things get more complicated. How does one worship? Who is Jesus Christ? How do we maintain the Truth? Etc, etc. There is a lot to those divisions and the division is most obviously seen between High Church Christians and Low Church Christians, they can’t just be brushed off.

These things should come from the Word of God. If one should ask:
1. How does one worship? Worshipping God should be a natural act, for we were made for Him. When your hope and joy is anchored in Him, then to worship and praise Him should not be something made complicated. I Chronicles 16:7-43 is one of many places where a reader of the Word of God can be exposed to the worship of God in the Bible. There are tons more in Psalms.

2. Who is Jesus Christ? One should refer to Colossians 1:9-29, where Paul describes the preeminence of Christ in great depth. Another place one could see who Jesus is would be

'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ” And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.'

3. How do we maintain the Truth? One ought to refer to

'“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. These things I command you, that you love one another.'

To maintain the truth, we ought to walk as He walked. To be made pure, we ought to repent and ask Him for forgiveness and be guided by Him through the Holy Spirit, and He'll set our paths straight.

All of this is really putting faith into action, and I agree it isn't easy, but because we're weak, He is strong. So whatever we do, we ought to do it in His name. We shouldn't be divided, but we ought to be united under His grace, because that's how we'll be in heaven. We must be led by the Holy Spirit in all we do.

1. Worship is also there to help through the times of tribulations as well to be the physical anchor of the Faith. Simply looking at the early Church we can see that they indeed make a fuss about worship, even preventing catechumens from staying during the Liturgy of the Eucharist after the Liturgy of the Word. Worship is so much more than praise it is the participation in the Divine Mystery’s of faith.

2. You are aware of the Gnostics, the Arians, the Nestorians, and a bunch of other heretical groups who all have different views of who Christ is right? They had the same Bible, the same Word, but came to a different conclusion of who Jesus Christ was and His nature.

3. Again simply looking at the ancient heresy’s is enough to refute that. It is through Christ’s Church that the Faith and the Truth is preserved but it can not do that without proper authority.

The division can not be ignored though, they significantly alter the way God is viewed and to dismiss that is not very helpful. How can a Catholic and a Calvinist supposed to agree when they are so diametrically opposed in their conception of God, grace, and salvation? It’s a nice sentiment but functionally no it can not happen now, though that isn’t to say unity shouldn’t be worked towards not at all. We should work for unity but to do so without careful consideration is not wise.

[Salus Maior]

Isaiah was during a time when Israel went whoring after other ‘gods’ and did not abide by the Word and Law of God.

Isiah is not talking in those passages about idolatry, which he addresses elsewhere. He is talking about the official Hebrew worship, which adherents believed was making them righteous

Then that's the problem, isn't it?

The issue was hypocrisy, not the fact that they had days where they worshiped or had feasts.

[Ndaku]

These things should come from the Word of God. If one should ask:
1. How does one worship? Worshipping God should be a natural act, for we were made for Him. When your hope and joy is anchored in Him, then to worship and praise Him should not be something made complicated. I Chronicles 16:7-43 is one of many places where a reader of the Word of God can be exposed to the worship of God in the Bible. There are tons more in Psalms.

2. Who is Jesus Christ? One should refer to Colossians 1:9-29, where Paul describes the preeminence of Christ in great depth. Another place one could see who Jesus is would be

'In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God. All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made. In Him was life, and the life was the light of men. And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it. There was a man sent from God, whose name was John. This man came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all through him might believe. He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light. That was the true Light which gives light to every man coming into the world. He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. He came to His own, and His own did not receive Him. But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God. And the Word became flesh and dwelt among us, and we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth. John bore witness of Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me is preferred before me, for He was before me.’ ” And of His fullness we have all received, and grace for grace. For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. No one has seen God at any time. The only begotten Son, who is in the bosom of the Father, He has declared Him.'

3. How do we maintain the Truth? One ought to refer to

'“I am the true vine, and My Father is the vinedresser. Every branch in Me that does not bear fruit He takes away; and every branch that bears fruit He prunes, that it may bear more fruit. You are already clean because of the word which I have spoken to you. Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in Me. “I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in Me, and I in him, bears much fruit; for without Me you can do nothing. If anyone does not abide in Me, he is cast out as a branch and is withered; and they gather them and throw them into the fire, and they are burned. If you abide in Me, and My words abide in you, you will ask what you desire, and it shall be done for you. By this My Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit; so you will be My disciples. “As the Father loved Me, I also have loved you; abide in My love. If you keep My commandments, you will abide in My love, just as I have kept My Father’s commandments and abide in His love. “These things I have spoken to you, that My joy may remain in you, and that your joy may be full. This is My commandment, that you love one another as I have loved you. Greater love has no one than this, than to lay down one’s life for his friends. You are My friends if you do whatever I command you. No longer do I call you servants, for a servant does not know what his master is doing; but I have called you friends, for all things that I heard from My Father I have made known to you. You did not choose Me, but I chose you and appointed you that you should go and bear fruit, and that your fruit should remain, that whatever you ask the Father in My name He may give you. These things I command you, that you love one another.'

To maintain the truth, we ought to walk as He walked. To be made pure, we ought to repent and ask Him for forgiveness and be guided by Him through the Holy Spirit, and He'll set our paths straight.

All of this is really putting faith into action, and I agree it isn't easy, but because we're weak, He is strong. So whatever we do, we ought to do it in His name. We shouldn't be divided, but we ought to be united under His grace, because that's how we'll be in heaven. We must be led by the Holy Spirit in all we do.

1. Worship is also there to help through the times of tribulations as well to be the physical anchor of the Faith. Simply looking at the early Church we can see that they indeed make a fuss about worship, even preventing catechumens from staying during the Liturgy of the Eucharist after the Liturgy of the Word. Worship is so much more than praise it is the participation in the Divine Mystery’s of faith.

2. You are aware of the Gnostics, the Arians, the Nestorians, and a bunch of other heretical groups who all have different views of who Christ is right? They had the same Bible, the same Word, but came to a different conclusion of who Jesus Christ was and His nature.

3. Again simply looking at the ancient heresy’s is enough to refute that. It is through Christ’s Church that the Faith and the Truth is preserved but it can not do that without proper authority.

The division can not be ignored though, they significantly alter the way God is viewed and to dismiss that is not very helpful. How can a Catholic and a Calvinist supposed to agree when they are so diametrically opposed in their conception of God, grace, and salvation? It’s a nice sentiment but functionally no it can not happen now, though that isn’t to say unity shouldn’t be worked towards not at all. We should work for unity but to do so without careful consideration is not wise.

Concerning (2.): My thought process when it comes to interpretations is if the LORD, of whom we call Him many times (the One who's our Master), is the One of whom a person calls, then they ought to do what He says. The LORD is one, so there ought to be at least a SINGULAR or SIMILAR interpretation concerning pieces of Scripture if He is also the One who reveals secrets and related matters. This is why our LORD sent the Holy Spirit, so that He may guide us in all truth.

Concerning (3.): The unity that we will experience in the life to come may not be possible in this one, but I have faith that the love of God which flows through us should act as a unifying force that will draw together His people, and hopefully, the world can see this, being convicted to be saved.

I see what you're saying, my friend. This unity is something I strive for, actually, because there seem to be just too many things that divide our brothers and sisters. My hopes are that such unity can begin here in NS.

[Aeritai]

I feel like every Christian from each denomination should all sit down in one room and talk to each to try and atleast agree on something and to see eye to eye.

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Catholicism is quite prevalent in the Americas outside of the US (as well as parts of the east coast of the US) and in Southern Europe, and it's the largest Christian denomination worldwide. As for Eastern Orthodoxy, perhaps that's a result of immigrants using the site?

There's nothing remarkable about the figures.

This is an international site with a broad range of backgrounds represented, though any English-language site will necessarily have a strong North American demographic.

Going by the NSG poll for this site, Gallup figures for the United States, and Pew Research Centre figures for international demographics (with the latter likely far more reliable for their data set), and rounding to the nearest whole number, Catholics are underrepresented on this site compared to their global share of Christianity (50%), but overrepresented compared to their share of US Christianity (23%). The NSG 34% share therefore seems reasonable given that this is an international site with a strong (but not necessarily as dominant as Xenopolis Confederation seems to assume) North American core.

As to Orthodox Christians, our 10% share on this marginally below our global share of Christianity according to Pew (12%). Gallup is useless here for the United States since it folds us in with Protestants as 'Protestant/Other Christian' in opposition to Catholics (which likely leaves both Protestants and Orthodox equally bemused). It's also difficult to count how many Orthodox Christians there are in North America; I've seen estimates across the US and Canada of up to 6 million, but as low as 2 million; so we're roughly 1% of the US population. If the US is your metric, then we're certainly more overrepresented than Catholics are, though still slightly underrepresented compared to our global share. But note that Orthodox Christians in the United States tend to be better-educated and have a higher income than other Christian groups, which may lead to us being overrepresented among American users on an internet forum relative to some other Christians.

It also goes without saying that Orthodox Christians are wittier, more attractive, more debonair, and more sophisticated than Catholics, and every word we write sparkles with a coruscating brilliance beyond the ken of mere Protestants; which is why we might be more noticeable here. But presumably you don't need any data to back up such a self-evident assertion.

Short version: I see nothing particularly remarkable in the representation of the two largest Christian denominations in this thread given that it's an international forum.

Having the eastern orthodox population on NSG be nearly equivalent to the Eastern Orthodox populaton of the world when much of the world's orthodox doesn't speak English, and having it be 10 times the amount of the US Eastern Orthodox percentage still seems odd.

[Ndaku]

I feel like every Christian from each denomination should all sit down in one room and talk to each to try and atleast agree on something and to see eye to eye.

I feel this way MANY times. One reason why many leave the faith is that there doesn't seem to be much of the love of God flowing, but the sheer religiousness that our flesh tends to uphold. To see saints UNITED in the love of God would be catastrophic to the kingdom of Satan.

[Ndaku]

By the way, while I'm here, is there anyone reading this that has a prayer request? I got you!

[Tarsonis]

1. Worship is also there to help through the times of tribulations as well to be the physical anchor of the Faith. Simply looking at the early Church we can see that they indeed make a fuss about worship, even preventing catechumens from staying during the Liturgy of the Eucharist after the Liturgy of the Word. Worship is so much more than praise it is the participation in the Divine Mystery’s of faith.

2. You are aware of the Gnostics, the Arians, the Nestorians, and a bunch of other heretical groups who all have different views of who Christ is right? They had the same Bible, the same Word, but came to a different conclusion of who Jesus Christ was and His nature.

3. Again simply looking at the ancient heresy’s is enough to refute that. It is through Christ’s Church that the Faith and the Truth is preserved but it can not do that without proper authority.

The division can not be ignored though, they significantly alter the way God is viewed and to dismiss that is not very helpful. How can a Catholic and a Calvinist supposed to agree when they are so diametrically opposed in their conception of God, grace, and salvation? It’s a nice sentiment but functionally no it can not happen now, though that isn’t to say unity shouldn’t be worked towards not at all. We should work for unity but to do so without careful consideration is not wise.

Concerning (2.): My thought process when it comes to interpretations is if the LORD, of whom we call Him many times (the One who's our Master), is the One of whom a person calls, then they ought to do what He says. The LORD is one, so there ought to be at least a SINGULAR or SIMILAR interpretation concerning pieces of Scripture if He is also the One who reveals secrets and related matters. This is why our LORD sent the Holy Spirit, so that He may guide us in all truth.

Concerning (3.): The unity that we will experience in the life to come may not be possible in this one, but I have faith that the love of God which flows through us should act as a unifying force that will draw together His people, and hopefully, the world can see this, being convicted to be saved.

I see what you're saying, my friend. This unity is something I strive for, actually, because there seem to be just too many things that divide our brothers and sisters. My hopes are that such unity can begin here in NS.

Problem for both of y’all, is that we’re not working out of the same book or even with the same premise. For the Catholicsc Christ, not the Bible is the true Word. While we would say scripture is the word of God in that it is inspired by God, we would not say it is the Word, which is Christ. Our truth and revelation comes from the Sacred Tradition that Christ and the Apostles handed down, of which the scriptures are apart,

[Ndaku]

Concerning (2.): My thought process when it comes to interpretations is if the LORD, of whom we call Him many times (the One who's our Master), is the One of whom a person calls, then they ought to do what He says. The LORD is one, so there ought to be at least a SINGULAR or SIMILAR interpretation concerning pieces of Scripture if He is also the One who reveals secrets and related matters. This is why our LORD sent the Holy Spirit, so that He may guide us in all truth.

Concerning (3.): The unity that we will experience in the life to come may not be possible in this one, but I have faith that the love of God which flows through us should act as a unifying force that will draw together His people, and hopefully, the world can see this, being convicted to be saved.

I see what you're saying, my friend. This unity is something I strive for, actually, because there seem to be just too many things that divide our brothers and sisters. My hopes are that such unity can begin here in NS.

Problem for both of y’all, is that we’re not working out of the same book or even with the same premise. For the Catholicsc Christ, not the Bible is the true Word. While we would say scripture is the word of God in that it is inspired by God, we would not say it is the Word, which is Christ. Our truth and revelation comes from the Sacred Tradition that Christ and the Apostles handed down, of which the scriptures are apart,

What were these traditions that were handed down?

[Tarsonis]

Problem for both of y’all, is that we’re not working out of the same book or even with the same premise. For the Catholicsc Christ, not the Bible is the true Word. While we would say scripture is the word of God in that it is inspired by God, we would not say it is the Word, which is Christ. Our truth and revelation comes from the Sacred Tradition that Christ and the Apostles handed down, of which the scriptures are apart,

What were these traditions that were handed down?

Not traditions, Sacred Tradition, which is literally the entirety of the doctrine of faith. Every book of sacred scripture, the teachings of all the saints, popes, priests, nuns, lay theologians, passed down from each generation of Bishops to the next going back in a n unbroken chain all the way to the first Apostles and ultimately Christ himself.