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Right-Wing Discussion Thread XVI: Making Things Right Again

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Do you consider nationalism and patriotism synoymous?

Yes- I am a nationalist and a patriot
115
26%
No- I am a nationalist and a patriot
52
12%
No- I am a nationalist, not a patriot
43
10%
No- I am a patriot, not a nationalist
147
33%
Yes- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
18
4%
No- I am neither a nationalist nor a patriot
68
15%
 
Total votes : 443

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13110
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 12:26 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Kicking people out of the country? Holy fuck the insecurity. Did you get ass whooped by a New Englander or something once?

Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.

So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for president Trump!

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Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:27 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:
Novus America wrote:
So you would still be going back to Germany, no bad example as Germans were not the first people in the land that is now Germany, but regardless Pennsylvania is not the first government of the first people on the land, an obvious unworkable and unsustainable concept anyways.


Well, I am not exactly opposed to all immigration. But as a white person, I am well aware that I am not an indigenous inhabitant of this continent. Also, pre-contact Native Americans had chiefs or elders, but they did not have an advanced, organized system of government comparable to the modern state.


Actually some did. But the point remains borders change. People move.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4163
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Wed May 22, 2019 12:27 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:Okay...if you want to play the quote game, let just pick from any one of the slaveholding Founders. Or, we can look the actual laws they wrote concerning immigration at the time.

Washington was one of the slaveholding Founders. Nice try though. I mean, it was a try.
Some other rando wrote:Born in other countries, yet believing you could be happy in this, our laws acknowledge, as they should do, your right to join us in society, conforming, as I doubt not you will do, to our established rules. That these rules shall be as equal as prudential considerations will admit, will certainly be the aim of our legislatures, general and particular.


Immigration was essentially unrestricted until the late 19th century. :)


Our very first immigration law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

C'mon bruh.
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4651
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.

So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

Don't you mean a rad trad monarchy with theocratic elements (or any sane nation before 1776)?

User avatar
Fahran
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5656
Founded: Nov 13, 2017
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Fahran » Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Bienenhalde wrote:Well, I am not exactly opposed to all immigration. But as a white person, I am well aware that I am not an indigenous inhabitant of this continent. Also, pre-contact Native Americans had chiefs or elders, but they did not have an advanced, organized system of government comparable to the modern state.

It really depends on who we mean when we discuss Native Americans. Some of them did possess centralized states. Others formed confederacies or loose bands that had a concrete claim to a parcel of territory.
The Claw is the LAW!!!

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Diopolis wrote:So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Bear Stearns
Senator
 
Posts: 4163
Founded: Dec 02, 2018
Corporate Bordello

Postby Bear Stearns » Wed May 22, 2019 12:28 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Bear Stearns wrote:
Okay..creepy. It seems this touches a deeper nerve with you than a simple political debate.

Where is your gulag for us going to be located?

Politics affects the lives of millions. Especially dangerous politics, like ethnonationalism. If you don't give a shit about millions of people, or think it's worth being passionate about, that's your problem, not mine.

Montana.


And your answer is to exile people...
The Bear Stearns Companies, Inc. is a New York-based global investment bank, securities trading and brokerage firm. Its main business areas are capital markets, investment banking, wealth management and global clearing services. Bear Stearns was founded as an equity trading house on May Day 1923 by Joseph Ainslie Bear, Robert B. Stearns and Harold C. Mayer with $500,000 in capital.
383 Madison Ave,
New York, NY 10017
Vince Vaughn

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4651
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Diopolis wrote:So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.

Its a nice dream, but such fantasies can never be...

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Washington was one of the slaveholding Founders. Nice try though. I mean, it was a try.


Immigration was essentially unrestricted until the late 19th century. :)


Our very first immigration law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

C'mon bruh.

0/10, naturalization isn't immigration. Jesus Christ.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.

So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?


Why not? If that is what you want.
Just do not try to impose it on the majority of us who do not want it.

That is all monarchy is anyways. Some warlord seizing power and then going into nepotism.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
West Leas Oros 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2107
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:29 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Most of my family is still in New England, actually. My parents were Appalachian transplants. I just believe that ethnonationalists have no place in this country, or really this world, but I suppose people should be free to hold their dangerous delusions somewhere, preferably somewhere very isolated.


Okay..creepy. It seems this touches a deeper nerve with you than a simple political debate.

Where is your gulag for us going to be located?

Alaska wouldn’t make a bad gulag. Or Minnesota. Montana as CM said. Iowa is absolutely shit, just like a gulag should be. Really, anywhere cold or crappy. Or both.
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo (Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News: West Leas Oros now a sponsor of Leninade!
I killed the entire population of Vuvuzela by raising the minimum wage
Simultaneously an evil commie who wants to take your toothbrush, and an evil brocialist reactionary and revisionist.
An accurate description of NSG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

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User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 12:30 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:Its a nice dream, but such fantasies can never be...

Yeah, unfortunately. Oh well. Maybe when we reach the stars, after I'm long dead.
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13110
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 12:32 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Diopolis wrote:So you believe me and my ilk should be free to go establish a rad trad theocracy in the middle of Siberia or some island or whatever?

If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.

Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for president Trump!

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 12:34 pm

Diopolis wrote:Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.

Well, I felt the need to specify allowing emigration because some people get off on keeping people against their will. t. Saudi Arabia, North Korea, most of the historical commie states
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:34 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Washington was one of the slaveholding Founders. Nice try though. I mean, it was a try.


Immigration was essentially unrestricted until the late 19th century. :)


Our very first immigration law:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naturalization_Act_of_1790

C'mon bruh.


Naturalization is not immigration. It did not restrict Catholics or Slavs at all either.
Yes such racism did exist. It was unfortunate. And we moved passed that.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:36 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:If you allow for free emigration, sure. Absolutely, in fact. People should be free to live how they want so long as others can opt out. I would very much prefer the world be carved up on political lines rather than the current inconsistently ethnic-but-sometimes-historical-unless-economics-gets-in-the-way ones.

Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.


Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

Fucked up places like Cuba and North Korea aside, it is an agreed on human right.
Last edited by Novus America on Wed May 22, 2019 12:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13110
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 12:37 pm

Novus America wrote:
Diopolis wrote:Honestly, if it's supposed to be a religious-cultural state, then why would we want people who don't want to be part of our religious-cultural complex to live there, aside from maybe the odd middleman minority or guest worker.


Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for president Trump!

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

I suppose the Vatican doesn't exactly have an open-borders immigration policy. :p
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm

Bear Stearns wrote:
Conserative Morality wrote:Politics affects the lives of millions. Especially dangerous politics, like ethnonationalism. If you don't give a shit about millions of people, or think it's worth being passionate about, that's your problem, not mine.

Montana.


And your answer is to exile people...


Or better people can just stop being racists and looking down on their fellow Americans based on ethnicity.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4651
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 12:38 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

User avatar
Conserative Morality
Post Kaiser
 
Posts: 76675
Founded: Aug 24, 2007
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Conserative Morality » Wed May 22, 2019 12:40 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You get a state, you get a state; everyone gets a state!
On the hate train. Choo choo, bitches. Bi-Polar. Proud Crypto-Fascist and Turbo Progressive. Dirty Étatist. Lowly Humanities Major. NSG's Best Liberal.
Caesar and Imperator of RWDT
Got a blog up again. || An NS Writing Discussion

User avatar
West Leas Oros 2
Minister
 
Posts: 2107
Founded: Jul 15, 2018
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby West Leas Oros 2 » Wed May 22, 2019 12:41 pm

Conserative Morality wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You get a state, you get a state; everyone gets a state!

God I’d hate to be a cartographer if everyone had a state.
West Leas Oros 2, Election Boogaloo (Please ignore the 2 in our name in all IC interactions)
WLO Public News: West Leas Oros now a sponsor of Leninade!
I killed the entire population of Vuvuzela by raising the minimum wage
Simultaneously an evil commie who wants to take your toothbrush, and an evil brocialist reactionary and revisionist.
An accurate description of NSG: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IQFU1y928dw

MP Arthur Woole in the NS Parliament

User avatar
Diopolis
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 13110
Founded: May 15, 2012
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Diopolis » Wed May 22, 2019 12:42 pm

Nea Byzantia wrote:
Diopolis wrote:If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.

What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You can have your state with divorce and birth control, we can have ours without it.
Trad-Catholic, hispanophile Texan distributist and paleoconservative.
Economic left -3.88, authoritarian 6.15
Thoughts
Abortion is not healthcare.
St Generalissimo Francisco Franco, pray for president Trump!

User avatar
Novus America
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 26585
Founded: Jun 02, 2014
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Novus America » Wed May 22, 2019 12:42 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Novus America wrote:
Yes, which is why you have the right to leave your country if you prefer to go somewhere else.

If we had a trad-Catholic religious cultural state.
Of course, we don't.


Well because few people want one.

Though there are Catholic monarchies you can go to.
Obviously not rad trad because most Catholics do not want that.

Only Muslims have rad trad monarchies. You are probably of the wrong religion.
___|_|___ _|__*__|_

Zombie Ike/Teddy Roosevelt 2020.

Novus America represents my vision of an awesome Atompunk near future United States of America expanded to the entire North American continent, Guyana and the Philippines. The population would be around 700 million.
Think something like prewar Fallout, minus the bad stuff.

Politically I am an independent. Pragmatism is my ideology.

User avatar
Nea Byzantia
Senator
 
Posts: 4651
Founded: Jun 03, 2016
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby Nea Byzantia » Wed May 22, 2019 12:44 pm

Diopolis wrote:
Nea Byzantia wrote:What if it was Eastern Orthodox...

You can have your state with divorce and birth control, we can have ours without it.

Orthodoxy is ok with birth control? Since when?

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