by Spodehaven » Mon May 20, 2019 9:17 am
by Farnhamia » Mon May 20, 2019 9:35 am
Spodehaven wrote:It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].
I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program
by Spodehaven » Mon May 20, 2019 9:40 am
Farnhamia wrote:Spodehaven wrote:It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].
I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program
Your breakdown is copied straight from Wikipedia (the footnotes in square brackets is a dead give-away). That said, I see no reason to lock this if you edit the OP to include your opinion. That's considered polite.
Oh, and I fixed your sources. You need a space before the https part for them to work. You're welcome.
by Farnhamia » Mon May 20, 2019 9:46 am
Spodehaven wrote:Farnhamia wrote:Your breakdown is copied straight from Wikipedia (the footnotes in square brackets is a dead give-away). That said, I see no reason to lock this if you edit the OP to include your opinion. That's considered polite.
Oh, and I fixed your sources. You need a space before the https part for them to work. You're welcome.
What? It's not from Wikipedia. I typed it myself today. I added the footnotes because it's a nice way to look at where I sourced it from. Find me the article where this is written. Seriously I typed this myself.
by North German Realm » Mon May 20, 2019 9:49 am
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Andsed » Mon May 20, 2019 9:51 am
by Spodehaven » Mon May 20, 2019 9:53 am
Farnhamia wrote:Spodehaven wrote:
What? It's not from Wikipedia. I typed it myself today. I added the footnotes because it's a nice way to look at where I sourced it from. Find me the article where this is written. Seriously I typed this myself.
Huh. My apologies, but you do see how a person, especially one of my age and lofty standing, might be mislead by the square brackets. And anyway, I didn't way that was bad, copying from Wiki. You could do something like this: [1] (quote my post to see how I did that).
I'd still like to see your opinion in the OP, if you haven't added it while I was typing this with my aged and lofty fingers.
by North German Realm » Mon May 20, 2019 9:56 am
Andsed wrote:A war with Iran is a horrible idea plain and simple. Thousands would die, we would annoy our allies, and makes some great anti America propaganda material and we would gain nothing. But I don´t think even Trump is foolish enough to start a war. At most it will likely just be some threats that he could use to make himself look like a strong leader in his 2020 election campaign.
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Diyaristan » Mon May 20, 2019 9:57 am
by Spodehaven » Mon May 20, 2019 9:58 am
North German Realm wrote:Andsed wrote:A war with Iran is a horrible idea plain and simple. Thousands would die, we would annoy our allies, and makes some great anti America propaganda material and we would gain nothing. But I don´t think even Trump is foolish enough to start a war. At most it will likely just be some threats that he could use to make himself look like a strong leader in his 2020 election campaign.
You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.
by Heloin » Mon May 20, 2019 10:07 am
Diyaristan wrote:Not at all. I think America ought to mind America's business... and we have plenty of problems in North America. Not least of which is helping the autodefensas in Mexico who are trying to regain their right to an armed citizenry...
By having bases on dictatorship soil like in Saudi Arabia, a base required for any war with Iran, we are put at the mercy of those countries and can't pursue foreign policy aims to actually, honestly help our real natural allies get the Bill of Rights abroad...
I've said many times before as well, the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland, for another example of what entangling alliances do to undermine what the Patriots really wanted, was compromised to our oldest enemy, some unrepentantly colonialist Brits...
Unilateralism without dependency on foreign bases and permissions, or a return to isolationism, are the only good foreign policy in my view. Why should U.S. troops need to be in the Middle East and assigned to prop up tyrants at all?
by MeinKrafft » Mon May 20, 2019 10:12 am
by MeinKrafft » Mon May 20, 2019 10:14 am
North German Realm wrote:Andsed wrote:A war with Iran is a horrible idea plain and simple. Thousands would die, we would annoy our allies, and makes some great anti America propaganda material and we would gain nothing. But I don´t think even Trump is foolish enough to start a war. At most it will likely just be some threats that he could use to make himself look like a strong leader in his 2020 election campaign.
You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.
by Marxist Germany » Mon May 20, 2019 10:22 am
by North German Realm » Mon May 20, 2019 10:29 am
Yes. Fortunately, the majority in Iran have learned almost intimately what a fucking mistake that was.Spodehaven wrote:North German Realm wrote:You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.
I don't know about the whole scare tactic thing. I wouldn't put it past him to actually go to war if it somehow could promote the interest of his companies. The inflammatory remarks certainly don't help and the staff is all for going to war. By return to monarchy do you mean the return of the Shahists that were removed in the Iranian revolution?
MeinKrafft wrote:North German Realm wrote:You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.
Trump may not be dumb enough but the zionists he surrounded himself with, might very well be.
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Scomagia » Mon May 20, 2019 10:44 am
Diyaristan wrote:Not at all. I think America ought to mind America's business... and we have plenty of problems in North America. Not least of which is helping the autodefensas in Mexico who are trying to regain their right to an armed citizenry...
By having bases on dictatorship soil like in Saudi Arabia, a base required for any war with Iran, we are put at the mercy of those countries and can't pursue foreign policy aims to actually, honestly help our real natural allies get the Bill of Rights abroad...
I've said many times before as well, the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland, for another example of what entangling alliances do to undermine what the Patriots really wanted, was compromised to our oldest enemy, some unrepentantly colonialist Brits...
Unilateralism without dependency on foreign bases and permissions, or a return to isolationism, are the only good foreign policy in my view. Why should U.S. troops need to be in the Middle East and assigned to prop up tyrants at all?
by Heloin » Mon May 20, 2019 10:48 am
Scomagia wrote:Diyaristan wrote:Not at all. I think America ought to mind America's business... and we have plenty of problems in North America. Not least of which is helping the autodefensas in Mexico who are trying to regain their right to an armed citizenry...
By having bases on dictatorship soil like in Saudi Arabia, a base required for any war with Iran, we are put at the mercy of those countries and can't pursue foreign policy aims to actually, honestly help our real natural allies get the Bill of Rights abroad...
I've said many times before as well, the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland, for another example of what entangling alliances do to undermine what the Patriots really wanted, was compromised to our oldest enemy, some unrepentantly colonialist Brits...
Unilateralism without dependency on foreign bases and permissions, or a return to isolationism, are the only good foreign policy in my view. Why should U.S. troops need to be in the Middle East and assigned to prop up tyrants at all?
Wait, a shithole theocracy making threats against us and funding terrorist groups (some of whom have tangled with us) isn't our business?
by North German Realm » Mon May 20, 2019 10:49 am
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.
by Upper Saust Latiegebestica » Mon May 20, 2019 10:50 am
Spodehaven wrote:It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].
I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?
In my opinion, the war should certainly be avoided at all costs. Consistently US meddling in the affairs of other nations has yet to result in many benefits worldwide. Iraq has been the biggest disaster of all, as it left a power vacuum that has supported the growth of ISIS and other extremist groups that are a threat to all nations today. Perhaps we will have learned from our mistakes, but that's being optimistic in my eyes. Even if we try to establish some form of Pro-US government in Iran, it probably will have to be a dictator to remain that way. I don't see the removal of a current, popular government for a US dictator as ethical at all.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program
by Gormwood » Mon May 20, 2019 10:51 am
by Gormwood » Mon May 20, 2019 10:53 am
Dogmeat wrote:Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements... Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements never changes.
by Scomagia » Mon May 20, 2019 10:53 am
Upper Saust Latiegebestica wrote:Spodehaven wrote:It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].
I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?
In my opinion, the war should certainly be avoided at all costs. Consistently US meddling in the affairs of other nations has yet to result in many benefits worldwide. Iraq has been the biggest disaster of all, as it left a power vacuum that has supported the growth of ISIS and other extremist groups that are a threat to all nations today. Perhaps we will have learned from our mistakes, but that's being optimistic in my eyes. Even if we try to establish some form of Pro-US government in Iran, it probably will have to be a dictator to remain that way. I don't see the removal of a current, popular government for a US dictator as ethical at all.
[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program
The Only reason we are considering war with them is because they are threatening us. Contrary to what the Left says, Nobody wants a war in Iran, not Bolton, not the President. The President himself ran on keeping us out of wars. The war should be avoided, but the way things are going suggests that we may have some incident whether we like it or not.
by Upper Saust Latiegebestica » Mon May 20, 2019 10:57 am
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