Iran vs the US Thread

[Spodehaven]

It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].

I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?

In my opinion, the war should certainly be avoided at all costs. Consistently US meddling in the affairs of other nations has yet to result in many benefits worldwide. Iraq has been the biggest disaster of all, as it left a power vacuum that has supported the growth of ISIS and other extremist groups that are a threat to all nations today. Perhaps we will have learned from our mistakes, but that's being optimistic in my eyes. Even if we try to establish some form of Pro-US government in Iran, it probably will have to be a dictator to remain that way. I don't see the removal of a current, popular government for a US dictator as ethical at all.


[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program

[Farnhamia]

It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].

I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?



[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program

Your breakdown is copied straight from Wikipedia (the footnotes in square brackets is a dead give-away). That said, I see no reason to lock this if you edit the OP to include your opinion. That's considered polite.

Oh, and I fixed your sources. You need a space before the https part for them to work. You're welcome.

[Spodehaven]

It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].

I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?



[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program

Your breakdown is copied straight from Wikipedia (the footnotes in square brackets is a dead give-away). That said, I see no reason to lock this if you edit the OP to include your opinion. That's considered polite.

Oh, and I fixed your sources. You need a space before the https part for them to work. You're welcome.

What? It's not from Wikipedia. I typed it myself today. I added the footnotes because it's a nice way to look at where I sourced it from. Find me the article where this is written. Seriously I typed this myself.

[Farnhamia]

Your breakdown is copied straight from Wikipedia (the footnotes in square brackets is a dead give-away). That said, I see no reason to lock this if you edit the OP to include your opinion. That's considered polite.

Oh, and I fixed your sources. You need a space before the https part for them to work. You're welcome.

What? It's not from Wikipedia. I typed it myself today. I added the footnotes because it's a nice way to look at where I sourced it from. Find me the article where this is written. Seriously I typed this myself.

Huh. My apologies, but you do see how a person, especially one of my age and lofty standing, might be mislead by the square brackets. And anyway, I didn't way that was bad, copying from Wiki. You could do something like this: [1] (quote my post to see how I did that).

I'd still like to see your opinion in the OP, if you haven't added it while I was typing this with my aged and lofty fingers.

[North German Realm]

On one hand, I fully support any motion that can ensure Iran continues to lack nukes, remove the Islamic Republic from Iran, and restore either the monarchy or (if that's not feasible) popular rule to the country. I'd prefer a popular revolution, but that is not very likely in the near future. On the other hand, I live 14 streets from the Ministry of the Interior's main building (roughly 1.16 kilometers), which means if there's an airstrike, I'm this close to being in the blast zone.

[Andsed]

A war with Iran is a horrible idea plain and simple. Thousands would die, we would annoy our allies, and makes some great anti America propaganda material and we would gain nothing. But I don´t think even Trump is foolish enough to start a war. At most it will likely just be some threats that he could use to make himself look like a strong leader in his 2020 election campaign.

[Spodehaven]

What? It's not from Wikipedia. I typed it myself today. I added the footnotes because it's a nice way to look at where I sourced it from. Find me the article where this is written. Seriously I typed this myself.

Huh. My apologies, but you do see how a person, especially one of my age and lofty standing, might be mislead by the square brackets. And anyway, I didn't way that was bad, copying from Wiki. You could do something like this: [1] (quote my post to see how I did that).

I'd still like to see your opinion in the OP, if you haven't added it while I was typing this with my aged and lofty fingers.

Done.

[North German Realm]

A war with Iran is a horrible idea plain and simple. Thousands would die, we would annoy our allies, and makes some great anti America propaganda material and we would gain nothing. But I don´t think even Trump is foolish enough to start a war. At most it will likely just be some threats that he could use to make himself look like a strong leader in his 2020 election campaign.

You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.

[Diyaristan]

Not at all. I think America ought to mind America's business... and we have plenty of problems in North America. Not least of which is helping the autodefensas in Mexico who are trying to regain their right to an armed citizenry...

By having bases on dictatorship soil like in Saudi Arabia, a base required for any war with Iran, we are put at the mercy of those countries and can't pursue foreign policy aims to actually, honestly help our real natural allies get the Bill of Rights abroad...

I've said many times before as well, the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland, for another example of what entangling alliances do to undermine what the Patriots really wanted, was compromised to our oldest enemy, some unrepentantly colonialist Brits...

Unilateralism without dependency on foreign bases and permissions, or a return to isolationism, are the only good foreign policy in my view. Why should U.S. troops need to be in the Middle East and assigned to prop up tyrants at all?

[Spodehaven]

A war with Iran is a horrible idea plain and simple. Thousands would die, we would annoy our allies, and makes some great anti America propaganda material and we would gain nothing. But I don´t think even Trump is foolish enough to start a war. At most it will likely just be some threats that he could use to make himself look like a strong leader in his 2020 election campaign.

You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.

I don't know about the whole scare tactic thing. I wouldn't put it past him to actually go to war if it somehow could promote the interest of his companies. The inflammatory remarks certainly don't help and the staff is all for going to war. By return to monarchy do you mean the return of the Shahists that were removed in the Iranian revolution?

[Heloin]

A monumentally stupid idea if the States decide to keeping pushing the topic. The only thing it would accomplish is kill thousands and destroy another country in the middle east.

Not at all. I think America ought to mind America's business... and we have plenty of problems in North America. Not least of which is helping the autodefensas in Mexico who are trying to regain their right to an armed citizenry...

By having bases on dictatorship soil like in Saudi Arabia, a base required for any war with Iran, we are put at the mercy of those countries and can't pursue foreign policy aims to actually, honestly help our real natural allies get the Bill of Rights abroad...

I've said many times before as well, the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland, for another example of what entangling alliances do to undermine what the Patriots really wanted, was compromised to our oldest enemy, some unrepentantly colonialist Brits...

Unilateralism without dependency on foreign bases and permissions, or a return to isolationism, are the only good foreign policy in my view. Why should U.S. troops need to be in the Middle East and assigned to prop up tyrants at all?

Quite a ramble you got there. I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say aside from Mexicans need guns (for some reason), something about Ireland and patriots, and isolationism. The only thing I'm certain of is that you are against war with Iran, I think.

[MeinKrafft]

This is the worst idea ever. Iran is a sovereign country and the United States has no business in it. It seems more likely that the United States is doing this for Israel’s interests rather than our own. I also find it very hypocritical that after we pulled out of the Iran Deal, the one good thing Obama accomplished during his term in office, we hold them accountable to it. John Bolton, that neocon rat, stated he wished to limit Iran’s oil exports to zero? For what? No US interests in that WHATSOEVER. Also, remember Operation Millennium Falcon, where a simulated Iranian invasion was squashed in 1 day with tens of thousands of casualties. This is a bad idea all around.

[MeinKrafft]

A war with Iran is a horrible idea plain and simple. Thousands would die, we would annoy our allies, and makes some great anti America propaganda material and we would gain nothing. But I don´t think even Trump is foolish enough to start a war. At most it will likely just be some threats that he could use to make himself look like a strong leader in his 2020 election campaign.

You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.

Trump may not be dumb enough but the zionists he surrounded himself with, might very well be.

[Marxist Germany]

Ah shit, here we go again...

[North German Realm]

You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.

I don't know about the whole scare tactic thing. I wouldn't put it past him to actually go to war if it somehow could promote the interest of his companies. The inflammatory remarks certainly don't help and the staff is all for going to war. By return to monarchy do you mean the return of the Shahists that were removed in the Iranian revolution?

Yes. Fortunately, the majority in Iran have learned almost intimately what a fucking mistake that was.

You would be right by assuming that Trump is probably planning only to use this as a "I WAS GOING TO DO THE RIGHT THING, AND I SCARED THEM INTO SUBMISSION! VOTE FOR ME AGAIN!" thing, but your mistake is assuming Iran's rational enough an actor to realize it. Truth of the matter is, Iran can't survive the sanctions the US Has already put on place, and given it's lost any credibility it had in Iraq and Syria (the former due to popular opposition to Shia Imperialism, the latter thanks to Israel beating the fuck out of them every step of the way this last 2 years) and even Lebanon and """""Palestine""""", it's either War by Israel+Arabs, War by the US, or death by sanctions. The Mullahs have shown they're move of a fan of the second option.

Trump may not be dumb enough but the zionists he surrounded himself with, might very well be.

Oh please. Trump is the least intelligent member of his own cabinet. If he's smart enough to just realize "War bad, making people think I scared an enemy by threatening war good" now, his cabinet already knew it in 2016.

[Scomagia]

Not at all. I think America ought to mind America's business... and we have plenty of problems in North America. Not least of which is helping the autodefensas in Mexico who are trying to regain their right to an armed citizenry...

By having bases on dictatorship soil like in Saudi Arabia, a base required for any war with Iran, we are put at the mercy of those countries and can't pursue foreign policy aims to actually, honestly help our real natural allies get the Bill of Rights abroad...

I've said many times before as well, the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland, for another example of what entangling alliances do to undermine what the Patriots really wanted, was compromised to our oldest enemy, some unrepentantly colonialist Brits...

Unilateralism without dependency on foreign bases and permissions, or a return to isolationism, are the only good foreign policy in my view. Why should U.S. troops need to be in the Middle East and assigned to prop up tyrants at all?

Wait, a shithole theocracy making threats against us and funding terrorist groups (some of whom have tangled with us) isn't our business?

[Heloin]

Not at all. I think America ought to mind America's business... and we have plenty of problems in North America. Not least of which is helping the autodefensas in Mexico who are trying to regain their right to an armed citizenry...

By having bases on dictatorship soil like in Saudi Arabia, a base required for any war with Iran, we are put at the mercy of those countries and can't pursue foreign policy aims to actually, honestly help our real natural allies get the Bill of Rights abroad...

I've said many times before as well, the cause of democracy in Northern Ireland, for another example of what entangling alliances do to undermine what the Patriots really wanted, was compromised to our oldest enemy, some unrepentantly colonialist Brits...

Unilateralism without dependency on foreign bases and permissions, or a return to isolationism, are the only good foreign policy in my view. Why should U.S. troops need to be in the Middle East and assigned to prop up tyrants at all?

Wait, a shithole theocracy making threats against us and funding terrorist groups (some of whom have tangled with us) isn't our business?

Saudi Arabia.

[North German Realm]

Wait, a shithole theocracy making threats against us and funding terrorist groups (some of whom have tangled with us) isn't our business?

Saudi Arabia.

Since when is Saudi Arabia chanting "Death to America" every Friday (and more importantly, actively acting as a threat to American security as a National State)?

[Upper Saust Latiegebestica]

It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].

I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?

In my opinion, the war should certainly be avoided at all costs. Consistently US meddling in the affairs of other nations has yet to result in many benefits worldwide. Iraq has been the biggest disaster of all, as it left a power vacuum that has supported the growth of ISIS and other extremist groups that are a threat to all nations today. Perhaps we will have learned from our mistakes, but that's being optimistic in my eyes. Even if we try to establish some form of Pro-US government in Iran, it probably will have to be a dictator to remain that way. I don't see the removal of a current, popular government for a US dictator as ethical at all.


[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program

The Only reason we are considering war with them is because they are threatening us. Contrary to what the Left says, Nobody wants a war in Iran, not Bolton, not the President. The President himself ran on keeping us out of wars. The war should be avoided, but the way things are going suggests that we may have some incident whether we like it or not.

[Scomagia]

Wait, a shithole theocracy making threats against us and funding terrorist groups (some of whom have tangled with us) isn't our business?

Saudi Arabia.

What's your point? Hard to know what you're getting at when you give a two word response, son.

[Gormwood]

Saudi Arabia.

Since when is Saudi Arabia chanting "Death to America" every Friday (and more importantly, actively acting as a threat to American security as a National State)?

Funding Wahhabist madrassas across the world, and remember how many of the 9/11 hijackers were Saudi.

[Dogmeat]

Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements... Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements never changes.

[Gormwood]

Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements... Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements never changes.

At least those had a modicum of thought involved.

[Scomagia]

It's no secret that the US is considering War with Iran. For many, this is rining the same bells of Iraq, with fear of both the waste of money and life leading into what will become an endless war. Others speculate an invasion of Iran could prove much harder than that of Iraq and many more US operatives may be killed[1]. On the opposing side, hawks argue that Iran is posturing against the US and its middle eastern allies and has continued work on nuclear weapons which supporters fear could end up in the arms of extremist groups. Independent panels have not supported such so far, but have conceded that in as little as one year Iran could produce a nuclear weapon[2].

I know my breakdown is fairly basic, but I'd like to hear NS's opinions on this whole debacle? Is this Iraq II or something different? Should we go to war or no?

In my opinion, the war should certainly be avoided at all costs. Consistently US meddling in the affairs of other nations has yet to result in many benefits worldwide. Iraq has been the biggest disaster of all, as it left a power vacuum that has supported the growth of ISIS and other extremist groups that are a threat to all nations today. Perhaps we will have learned from our mistakes, but that's being optimistic in my eyes. Even if we try to establish some form of Pro-US government in Iran, it probably will have to be a dictator to remain that way. I don't see the removal of a current, popular government for a US dictator as ethical at all.


[1] https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/20 ... 5d25c44e9c
[2] https://news.usni.org/2019/05/14/report ... ar-program

The Only reason we are considering war with them is because they are threatening us. Contrary to what the Left says, Nobody wants a war in Iran, not Bolton, not the President. The President himself ran on keeping us out of wars. The war should be avoided, but the way things are going suggests that we may have some incident whether we like it or not.

I agree that no one is actually intending to go to war, despite the perpetual handwringing about Trump being a madman and so on. If hostilities do start, I expect it'll be in response to an attack by Iran.

[Upper Saust Latiegebestica]

Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements... Poorly thought-out foreign entanglements never changes.

At least those had a modicum of thought involved.

This is actually very thought out. Iran threatened us, so we send a deterent force over to tell them not to follow through. If anything, Iran is the one not think through this.