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LWDT 7: The Earth and Heavens Tremble.

For discussion and debate about anything. (Not a roleplay related forum; out-of-character commentary only.)

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Which Book on Leftist Ideology is Your Preferred Book?

The Communist Manifesto (Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels)
23
18%
The Conquest of Bread (Peter Kropotkin)
24
19%
Das Kapital (Karl Marx)
21
16%
What is Property? (Pierre-Joseph Proudhon)
2
2%
Guerilla Warfare (Che Guevara)
8
6%
Mutual Aid (Peter Kropotkin)
2
2%
Profit Over People (Noam Chomsky)
4
3%
The Ego and Its Own (Max Stirner)
8
6%
Debt: The First 5,000 Years (David Graeber)
5
4%
Other (Please Explain)
32
25%
 
Total votes : 129

User avatar
Valrifell
Post Czar
 
Posts: 31063
Founded: Aug 18, 2013
Ex-Nation

Postby Valrifell » Sat May 18, 2019 10:55 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
First American Empire wrote:

No. I'm hoping that Syria gets conquered by Rojava.

How about nobody conquers anyone and everyone calms down?


A de-facto partition of Syria or a federalized Syria (which is what Rojava wants), then?
Last edited by Valrifell on Sat May 18, 2019 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
HAVING AN ALL CAPS SIG MAKES ME FEEL SMART

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First American Empire
Diplomat
 
Posts: 816
Founded: Mar 12, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby First American Empire » Sat May 18, 2019 11:20 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
First American Empire wrote:

No. I'm hoping that Syria gets conquered by Rojava.

How about nobody conquers anyone and everyone calms down?


How about Rojava conquers everyone and Liriena makes even more Archer references.
The American Empire is a socially progressive absolute monarchy run by the heirs of Emperor Norton. It started off at MT but has rapidly advanced to PMT through interdimensional travel. All NSstats are used, except for tax rate and population. Factbooks are currently under reconstruction.

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North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Sat May 18, 2019 11:43 am

Proctopeo wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:Because they are bad and can’t do good things. There are no good factions in Syria.

counterpoint: give Syria to the Assyrians

I support that motion. Throw the Arabs out of Syria asap /s... kinda.
Last edited by North German Realm on Sat May 18, 2019 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Sat May 18, 2019 11:45 am

North German Realm wrote:
Proctopeo wrote:counterpoint: give Syria to the Assyrians

I support that motion. Throw the Arabs out of Syria asap /s... kinda.

I think the best option would be to send the Kurds to the moon, then the Assyrians and Arabs also to the moon. That would definitely fix problems with ethnic conflict between the three
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

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North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Sat May 18, 2019 11:50 am

Cekoviu wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I support that motion. Throw the Arabs out of Syria asap /s... kinda.

I think the best option would be to send the Kurds to the moon, then the Assyrians and Arabs also to the moon. That would definitely fix problems with ethnic conflict between the three

You probably don't want to know my solution for solving all conflict in the Middle East.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
Joohan
Negotiator
 
Posts: 6001
Founded: Jan 11, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Joohan » Sat May 18, 2019 11:50 am

First American Empire wrote:
Kowani wrote:…Not really? Once Christians became the dominant power within Rome, they treated the pagans about the same way they had been. In the medieval era, it was the papacy and the constant search for heretics that plunged the Church into blood. In the Age of Empire, well.
The idea that Christianity won out because of the correctness of its doctrine is ahistorical. Heck, the idea that for the majority of its time, Christianity was peaceful isn’t entirely true, either.


This. Christianity only won out because the Roman Empire forced its people to convert at swordpoint. (Which, as a Pagan, I am still really angry about.) Christianity can't maintain its position of religious dominance without coercion, and its decline in much of the world is proof of that.


… So the only reason for why over 2.3 billion people on this planet are Christian is because they are all being coerced to huh? Are you seriously trying to say that, the only reason why Christianity has prospered for the last 1500 years is because everyone's had a gun/sword to the back of their head the whole time?

You would be ignoring the fact that Christianity was already spreading across the Roman empire like wildfire as a repressed religion, even before Justinian declared it the state faith.
If you need a witness look to yourself

There is no room in this country for hyphenated Americanism!


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Washington Resistance Army
Khan of Spam
 
Posts: 54796
Founded: Aug 08, 2011
Father Knows Best State

Postby Washington Resistance Army » Sat May 18, 2019 12:07 pm

Joohan wrote:
First American Empire wrote:
This. Christianity only won out because the Roman Empire forced its people to convert at swordpoint. (Which, as a Pagan, I am still really angry about.) Christianity can't maintain its position of religious dominance without coercion, and its decline in much of the world is proof of that.


… So the only reason for why over 2.3 billion people on this planet are Christian is because they are all being coerced to huh? Are you seriously trying to say that, the only reason why Christianity has prospered for the last 1500 years is because everyone's had a gun/sword to the back of their head the whole time?

You would be ignoring the fact that Christianity was already spreading across the Roman empire like wildfire as a repressed religion, even before Justinian declared it the state faith.


Christianity was only followed by some 10% of the population by the time of Constantine and such fellows, and when it did gain power in the empire it had a tendency to go physically destroy other religions and their temples and such things. While I wouldn't say the religion only spread because of the sword as that would be incorrect brute force and destruction of other belief systems did play more than a small part.
Hellenic Polytheist, Socialist

User avatar
Cekoviu
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 16954
Founded: Oct 18, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Cekoviu » Sat May 18, 2019 12:47 pm

North German Realm wrote:
Cekoviu wrote:I think the best option would be to send the Kurds to the moon, then the Assyrians and Arabs also to the moon. That would definitely fix problems with ethnic conflict between the three

You probably don't want to know my solution for solving all conflict in the Middle East.

universal mandatory p a s h t o?
pro: women's rights
anti: men's rights

User avatar
Asherahan
Minister
 
Posts: 2694
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sat May 18, 2019 12:56 pm

New yugoslavaia wrote:
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:The us would need to help the. fix syria.

How about the US keeps it grubby not so little hands out of the middles east. They've already caused enough damage.

The Middle East isn't the USA fault though they aren't helping by destabilizing regimes (hoping a pro USA regime takes over) even if they are dictatorial.

It is Britains fault.
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Epicurustan
Secretary
 
Posts: 33
Founded: May 17, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Epicurustan » Sat May 18, 2019 1:06 pm

Communist Zombie Horde wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Yes, all factions in Syria are pretty bad, but bombing everything will only make it worse.

A rightist revolution probably wouldn’t work so bombing is the second option.

Projecting American political ideologies and culture on Syria is not the best thing to do, nor to hope for.
LEGALIZED MARIJUANA 2020
Philosophy and Religion student. Epicurean, Taoist.
Economic Left/Right: -6.25 Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -2.05

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Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sat May 18, 2019 3:15 pm

Communal concils wrote:
First American Empire wrote:

No. I'm hoping that Syria gets conquered by Rojava.



So you want arabs to be oppressed again.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKCN1S40RD

I guess it's okay that the kurds can become economic manipulators, I guess it's okay for a historically oppress groups to oppress other people.


It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.
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They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
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NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
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User avatar
Asherahan
Minister
 
Posts: 2694
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sat May 18, 2019 11:53 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Communal concils wrote:

So you want arabs to be oppressed again.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-syri ... SKCN1S40RD

I guess it's okay that the kurds can become economic manipulators, I guess it's okay for a historically oppress groups to oppress other people.


It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.

Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?

Also thankfully I stopped calling myself a Communist to convenience you. I am now a Left Statist.
Last edited by Asherahan on Sat May 18, 2019 11:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Status: Serial Forum Lurker
Ideologically a Blanquist & Counter-Jihadist
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User avatar
Torrocca
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 27785
Founded: Dec 01, 2011
Democratic Socialists

Postby Torrocca » Sat May 18, 2019 11:55 pm

Asherahan wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.

Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?


The worst they've done, from what I can tell, is remove families from their homes in a couple of villages as a matter of military necessity in the fight against ISIS and take oil from occupied lands, presumably for their war effort against ISIS and Turkey's recent incursions.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
They call me Torra, but you can call me... anytime (☞⌐■_■)☞
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
NOTICE 1: Anything depicted IC on this nation does NOT reflect my IRL views or values, and is not endorsed by me.
NOTICE 2: Most RP and every OOC post by me prior to 2023 are no longer endorsed nor tolerated by me. I've since put on my adult pants!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

User avatar
Asherahan
Minister
 
Posts: 2694
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sat May 18, 2019 11:58 pm

Torrocca wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?


The worst they've done, from what I can tell, is remove families from their homes in a couple of villages as a matter of military necessity in the fight against ISIS and take oil from occupied lands, presumably for their war effort against ISIS and Turkey's recent incursions.

Tag me when they start oppressing them for real like exile or extrajudicial killings. So I can tell everyone I told you so.
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Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 739
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 2:35 am

TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.
Nation does not represent irl views.
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: Unitary Marxist-Leninist one-party socialist republic
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 2:40 am

Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
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Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 739
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 3:43 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.

Arab Socialist movements are overly Liberal, they support secularism, women's rights, and are against religious fundamentalism. They're probably the most liberal force in the Arab world.
Nation does not represent irl views.
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: Unitary Marxist-Leninist one-party socialist republic
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

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The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 3:52 am

Cerinda wrote:
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Arabs do not need Socialism, they first and foremost need liberalism, in order to temper fundamentalism and suppression.

Arab Socialist movements are overly Liberal, they support secularism, women's rights, and are against religious fundamentalism. They're probably the most liberal force in the Arab world.

If that is true, then that is good.
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

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Nakena
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15010
Founded: May 06, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Nakena » Sun May 19, 2019 4:01 am

Asherahan wrote:
Torrocca wrote:
It's so fucking hilarious that you continue to pretend to be a Communist and then shit on successful, legitimate leftist movements because they don't toe your line of political beliefs lmao.

Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?

Also thankfully I stopped calling myself a Communist to convenience you. I am now a Left Statist.


Just go by Marxism Leninism.

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Asherahan
Minister
 
Posts: 2694
Founded: Dec 08, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Asherahan » Sun May 19, 2019 4:50 am

Nakena wrote:
Asherahan wrote:Have the Kurds started oppressing the Arabs yet?

Also thankfully I stopped calling myself a Communist to convenience you. I am now a Left Statist.


Just go by Marxism Leninism.

I was for a long time.
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North German Realm
Senator
 
Posts: 4494
Founded: Jan 27, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby North German Realm » Sun May 19, 2019 5:45 am

Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.
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North German Confederation
NationStates Flag Bracket II - 6th place!

Norddeutscher Bund
Homepage || Overview | Sovereign | Chancellor | Military | Legislature || The World
5 Nov, 2020
Die Morgenpost: "We will reconsider our relationship with Poland" Reichskanzler Lagenmauer says after Polish president protested North German ultimatum that made them restore reproductive freedom. | European Society votes not to persecute Hungary for atrocities committed against Serbs, "Giving a rogue state leave to commit genocide as it sees fit." North German delegate bemoans. | Negotiations still underway in Rome, delegates arguing over the extent of indemnities Turkey might be made to pay, lawful status of Turkish collaborators during occupation of Azerbaijan, Cyprus, Syria.

User avatar
The Xenopolis Confederation
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 9474
Founded: Aug 11, 2017
Anarchy

Postby The Xenopolis Confederation » Sun May 19, 2019 5:55 am

North German Realm wrote:
Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

Socialism =/= Fascism. Are you going Ben Shapiro on us rn?
Pro: Liberty, Liberalism, Capitalism, Secularism, Equal opportunity, Democracy, Windows Chauvinism, Deontology, Progressive Rock, LGBT+ Rights, Live and let live tbh.
Against: Authoritarianism, Traditionalism, State Socialism, Laissez-Faire Capitalism, Autocracy, (A)Theocracy, Apple, "The ends justify the means," Collectivism in all its forms.
Nationality: Australian
Gender: MTF trans woman (she/her)
Political Ideology: If "milktoast liberalism" had a baby with "bleeding-heart libertarianism."
Discord: mellotronyellow

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New yugoslavaia
Minister
 
Posts: 2295
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New yugoslavaia » Sun May 19, 2019 6:16 am

The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

Socialism =/= Fascism. Are you going Ben Shapiro on us rn?


Arab normies DESTROYED with FACTS and LOGIC!
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well...we don't actually know. Just sort of happened one day.
Is it a reunited Yugoslavia in the 21st century? Is a rebel colony world in the far future? Is it a race of cyborg neo-life at war with any assimilating organisms they come across in the far far future? Who knows, who cares?
New Yugoslavia just is.

User avatar
Cerinda
Diplomat
 
Posts: 739
Founded: Feb 18, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Cerinda » Sun May 19, 2019 6:55 am

North German Realm wrote:
Cerinda wrote:TFW everyone is supporting Rojava but you want Syria to be part of a socialist pan-Arab State.

I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

>Thinks Fascism and Socialism are the same.
Steven Crowder? Is that you?
Nation does not represent irl views.
Esheaun Stroakuss wrote:As always, she and her inbred minions will be fine whilst the rest of us get our arseholes annexed by the might of the Tory thundercock.
Title: The People's Socialist Republic of Cerinda
Leader: Andrei Kamriov
Government: Unitary Marxist-Leninist one-party socialist republic
Capital: Kovograd


Will be posting again soon

User avatar
New yugoslavaia
Minister
 
Posts: 2295
Founded: Jun 07, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby New yugoslavaia » Sun May 19, 2019 8:15 am

Cerinda wrote:
North German Realm wrote:I don't think creating a fascist state for a peoples with a culture like that of the Arabs would be a good idea. It'd be even worse than a normal fascist state, in fact.

>Thinks Fascism and Socialism are the same.
Steven Crowder? Is that you?

Muslims *exist*
Steve:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KRvI18OfiTI
Yugoslavia's back baby...

How the hell did this happen?
Well...we don't actually know. Just sort of happened one day.
Is it a reunited Yugoslavia in the 21st century? Is a rebel colony world in the far future? Is it a race of cyborg neo-life at war with any assimilating organisms they come across in the far far future? Who knows, who cares?
New Yugoslavia just is.

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