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by Cappuccina » Fri May 17, 2019 4:30 pm
by Iciaros » Fri May 17, 2019 5:58 pm
by Auzkhia » Fri May 17, 2019 6:09 pm
Iciaros wrote:Geez, why do these things always happen when I'm asleep?
Anyways, if this does split off into a new thread, does that mean we'll lose like several pages' worth of posts from here?
by Socialist Workers Combine » Fri May 17, 2019 8:01 pm
Des-Bal wrote:There is no reason to believe them, because there's no reason to believe that that's a thing that can happen.
by Des-Bal » Fri May 17, 2019 8:12 pm
Socialist Workers Combine wrote:My baseline awareness is male or masculine, while the voice my mind speaks with is feminine.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Socialist Workers Combine » Fri May 17, 2019 8:22 pm
Des-Bal wrote:I see no reason to assume that matters or means what you think it does.
by Des-Bal » Fri May 17, 2019 8:54 pm
Socialist Workers Combine wrote:It’s just a description of my gender. I don’t identify as female, though part of me farther down the spectrum feels female. But my gender (or mind) is not “binary”, it is made of components.
Cekoviu wrote:DES-BAL: Introverted, blunt, focused, utilitarian. Hard to read; not verbose online or likely in real life. Places little emphasis on interpersonal relationships, particularly with online strangers for whom the investment would outweigh the returns.
Desired perception: Logical, intellectual
Public perception: Neutral-positive - blunt, cold, logical, skilled at debating
Mindset: Logos
by Grenartia » Fri May 17, 2019 9:14 pm
It's rarely used in reference to that.
And even then it's almost always colored by the person using the term being one of those "lol men having feelings? #MasculinitySoFragile" sorts, or some other type of similarly toxic individual who shouldn't be calling anything toxic.
I've literally never seen that. The "Masculinity So Fragile" thing is only really used in reference to toxic masculinity that says men can't like flowers, or have any feelings aside from "HULK ANGRY HULK SMASH".
Cappuccina wrote:Proctopeo wrote:No, not really.
Notice how I said "genuinely toxic behavior". It's rarely used in reference to that.
Xenopolis, WLO, and Cappu responded more succinctly than I would've on this.
Unless you consider grey-colored beds, soap with cool grips, and novelty chocolates "toxic masculinity", in which case you're just delusional (and probably complain about attractive women in advertising campaigns).
I find it telling that there's a "toxic masculinity", but no corresponding "toxic femininity". Men are always the issue, not we poor helpless, but strong independent women!!!
Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:Cappuccina wrote:
I find it telling that there's a "toxic masculinity", but no corresponding "toxic femininity". Men are always the issue, not we poor helpless, but strong independent women!!!
The whole point of feminism is that the female and male parts of the populations deal with different issues. Society puts different expectations on the genders. For men, this is an expectation of strength, violence, lack of nuance and no emotional output. For women, this is objectification, less interest in manual labour and the STEM fields. We just don’t call it ‘toxic femininity’, but if that’s your criticism then you have not gone too deeply into the issue at all.
Proctopeo wrote:Great Confederacy of Commonwealth States wrote:
Just repeating this because you seem to have missed it.
Also, toxic masculinity is seen as something bad imposed on men, not the fault of the men themselves, generally. It’s basically an issue where feminists fight in favour of men. You seem to misundertand what toxic masculinity even means.
So do about 98% of people who actually use the term, which suggests that their definition is predominant if not "official"
also >feminism fighting in favor of men on anything
I'm avin a laff
Cappuccina wrote:Ok then, what is non-toxic masculinity?
How can there be either toxic or non-toxic masculinity if "gender is a social construct" and doesn't really exist?
The Xenopolis Confederation wrote:Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:No argument there. Yes. Some feminists do use it to the point of making me, a feminist too, chuckle.
Let’s also be clear in that some feminists other-ize trans women to ridiculous heights. Seeing them as invaders of a woman’s space and identity. Feminism is not innocent at all when it comes to hating and marginalizing trans women.
Yeah. I don't get why TERFs are so concerned with "women's spaces." If you ask me, gendered spaces should be minimized. Integration is a good thing, maybe even in bathrooms.Cappuccina wrote:I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm anti-feminist, but I'm certainly critical of its modern popular incarnation. I'd say my views are similar to those of "SWERFs".
What's wrong with sex workers?
Communist Zombie Horde wrote:How is it transphobic to say their are two geneders?
Nanatsu no Tsuki wrote:Cappuccina wrote:
Yup, TERFs....ugh.
I wouldn't go as far as saying I'm anti-feminist, but I'm certainly critical of its modern popular incarnation. I'd say my views are similar to those of "SWERFs".
I have no problem with sex workers. If that’s what they want to do, more power to them. What I’d like is for them to have protections under law.
Cappuccina wrote:I personally see it differently, I see non-binary ideas as anti-trans.
Saying you can be trans and then saying gender isn't real
or is a spectrum is inconsistent.
Iciaros wrote:Geez, why do these things always happen when I'm asleep?
Anyways, if this does split off into a new thread, does that mean we'll lose like several pages' worth of posts from here?
by Nanatsu no Tsuki » Fri May 17, 2019 9:30 pm
Slava Ukraini
Also: THERNSY!!
Your story isn't over;֍Help save transgender people's lives֍Help for feral cats
Cat with internet access||Supposedly heartless, & a d*ck.||Is maith an t-earra an tsíocháin.||No TGsRIP: Dyakovo & Ashmoria
by Socialist Workers Combine » Fri May 17, 2019 9:59 pm
Des-Bal wrote:I repeat the statement.
by The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri May 17, 2019 11:49 pm
Cekoviu wrote:Dumb Ideologies wrote:
There's no "invasion" going on. The OP and others raised toxic masculinity as a possible reasons for why a transman could have done a shooting. Some conversation on the wider utility of the term then arose organically from that.
Yes, which has caused non-regular posters to enter the thread and hijack it into being about nothing related to trans people anymore.There's no "co-opting" going on. Hindus and others created swastikas as a religious symbol. Usage of it as a Nazi military symbol arose organically from that.
by The Xenopolis Confederation » Fri May 17, 2019 11:50 pm
Cekoviu wrote:It was just the first example that came to mind. Nothing specifically accusing you of being a Nazi (since a more accurate strawman would call you a Stalinist anyway, and I strive to maintain realism in my strawmen).
by First American Empire » Sat May 18, 2019 1:06 am
by Dumb Ideologies » Sat May 18, 2019 1:10 am
by The Xenopolis Confederation » Sat May 18, 2019 1:30 am
by Iciaros » Sat May 18, 2019 4:44 am
Auzkhia wrote:
I guess my social transitioning is going well, and getting better about reminding people about pronoun usage.
by Proctopeo » Sat May 18, 2019 8:56 am
It's rarely used in reference to that.
Maybe your judgment of what is toxic behavior is skewed.
Hardly. However, advertising that emphasizes aggressive masculinity is toxic. And its not even like there aren't things being advertised that are masculine, but not toxically so. For example, Old Spice commericals aren't displaying toxic masculinity. But Axe's line of "CHEMICAL WARFARE FOR YOUR BO" / "WEAPON OF MASS SEDUCTION" shit is textbook toxic masculinity in advertising.
Proctopeo wrote:So do about 98% of people who actually use the term, which suggests that their definition is predominant if not "official"
also >feminism fighting in favor of men on anything
I'm avin a laff
Actually, feminists back in the day of the ERA argued in favor of either making women sign up for the Selective Service as well, or just outright abolishing the draft, and also advocated for more equal divorce outcomes, AND a more inclusive definition of rape. And the antifeminists successfully fought against those things. I.E., everything MRAs today say feminists don't want.
Honestly, watch the video.
based /pol/ack wrote:If you need a separate guide for people based on race and sex, I already know what you're selling me is sexist and racist so I don't care
by Luminesa » Sat May 18, 2019 9:50 am
by Cekoviu » Sat May 18, 2019 10:15 am
Luminesa wrote:As a casual watcher of perfume commercials who probably is not too-well-educated on the topic, AXE’s commercials aren’t all too different from commercials like that for Gucci Guilty, which depicts a guy and a girl in hot, steamy, adulterous sex who wake-up together and the phone rings because of a worried spouse. They sell on the idea that somehow wearing this perfume will make you a...for lack of a better term, sex machine. The problem is they not only push toxic masculinity, but also toxic femininity-throwing around your sexuality is not unique to only guys.
by Crockerland » Sat May 18, 2019 10:35 am
Luminesa wrote:As a casual watcher of perfume commercials who probably is not too-well-educated on the topic, AXE’s commercials aren’t all too different from commercials like that for Gucci Guilty, which depicts a guy and a girl in hot, steamy, adulterous sex who wake-up together and the phone rings because of a worried spouse. They sell on the idea that somehow wearing this perfume will make you a...for lack of a better term, sex machine. The problem is they not only push toxic masculinity, but also toxic femininity-throwing around your sexuality is not unique to only guys.
by Luminesa » Sat May 18, 2019 11:10 am
Cekoviu wrote:Luminesa wrote:As a casual watcher of perfume commercials who probably is not too-well-educated on the topic, AXE’s commercials aren’t all too different from commercials like that for Gucci Guilty, which depicts a guy and a girl in hot, steamy, adulterous sex who wake-up together and the phone rings because of a worried spouse. They sell on the idea that somehow wearing this perfume will make you a...for lack of a better term, sex machine. The problem is they not only push toxic masculinity, but also toxic femininity-throwing around your sexuality is not unique to only guys.
I don't think I've ever heard the phrase "as a casual watcher of perfume commercials" before.
by Luminesa » Sat May 18, 2019 11:12 am
Crockerland wrote:Luminesa wrote:As a casual watcher of perfume commercials who probably is not too-well-educated on the topic, AXE’s commercials aren’t all too different from commercials like that for Gucci Guilty, which depicts a guy and a girl in hot, steamy, adulterous sex who wake-up together and the phone rings because of a worried spouse. They sell on the idea that somehow wearing this perfume will make you a...for lack of a better term, sex machine. The problem is they not only push toxic masculinity, but also toxic femininity-throwing around your sexuality is not unique to only guys.
>Glorifying spousal abuse
I guess I shouldn't expect much better from a company whose entire business model is aimed at convincing rappers and white 20 year olds trying to act like rappers to "flex" on poor people, but still, yikes.
by Luminesa » Sat May 18, 2019 11:13 am
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