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Hundreds quarantined for measles in 2 CA universities.

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Thermodolia
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Postby Thermodolia » Fri May 17, 2019 4:06 am

Andsed wrote:
The Aria wrote:
I want to see you do better found a source that is not controlled by the government supporting your side

Ah yes the classic baseless conspiracy theory that the government is for some unknown reason is using vaccines to like kill your children or some other goal that makes no sense if you think about for even a second.

Vaccines work. There are countless credible sources backing this up with scientific evidence. Anti vaxxers do endangers others through violating herd immunity. That is why we are seeing some of the largest measles outbreak in years.

983 cases and counting. This outbreak is big enough to register on those vaccination history graphs.
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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Fri May 17, 2019 4:08 am

Thermodolia wrote:
Andsed wrote:Ah yes the classic baseless conspiracy theory that the government is for some unknown reason is using vaccines to like kill your children or some other goal that makes no sense if you think about for even a second.

Vaccines work. There are countless credible sources backing this up with scientific evidence. Anti vaxxers do endangers others through violating herd immunity. That is why we are seeing some of the largest measles outbreak in years.

983 cases and counting. This outbreak is big enough to register on those vaccination history graphs.

All because some people refuse to accept facts and use one of the best and most effective medical tool we have. Sad.
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Fri May 17, 2019 4:16 am

I also like how Aria totally ignored me and never countered my points. Now I'm not being pissy just because I got ignored. Rather, I would expect that you would at least challenge me or something to that effect. My points are not flawless, and they can indeed be countered/challenged if you really wanna.

With that aside, ahh, "I can't trust the government websites" argument that I have also heard countless times. And it's as baseless as ever. Just because something is from the government or from a health organisation, doesn't mean that it is instantly biased. Most of them are done with non-profit in mind.
Last edited by Valentine Z on Fri May 17, 2019 5:06 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Icelandic Military Junta
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Postby Icelandic Military Junta » Fri May 17, 2019 5:04 am

Valentine Z wrote:I also like how Aria totally ignored me and never countered my points. Now I'm not being pissy just because I got ignored. Rather, I would expect that you would at least challenge me or something to that effect.

With that aside, ahh, "I can't trust the government websites" argument that I have also heard countless times. And it's as baseless as ever. Just because something is from the government or from a health organisation, doesn't mean that it is instantly biased. Most of them are done with non-profit in mind.

Eh, that's Anti-Vaxxers for you

They rarely actually address your point, and when they do it's usually "Ding Dong, you are wrong" and nothing else. Especially if it's "Evil Government" site. You know what else the Government says? The Earth is round, Alternative Medicine is bull, We have nearly eradicated several illnesses in America because of Vaccines, and that water is wet. Are we to just believe these things while Vaccines are evil? :eyeroll:

They also have yet to prove that vaccines murder thousands while illnesses we have nearly wiped out like Polio or Measles are somehow less deadly than the Vaccine.
Last edited by Icelandic Military Junta on Fri May 17, 2019 5:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Valentine Z
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Postby Valentine Z » Fri May 17, 2019 5:22 am

Icelandic Military Junta wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:I also like how Aria totally ignored me and never countered my points. Now I'm not being pissy just because I got ignored. Rather, I would expect that you would at least challenge me or something to that effect.

With that aside, ahh, "I can't trust the government websites" argument that I have also heard countless times. And it's as baseless as ever. Just because something is from the government or from a health organisation, doesn't mean that it is instantly biased. Most of them are done with non-profit in mind.

Eh, that's Anti-Vaxxers for you

They rarely actually address your point, and when they do it's usually "Ding Dong, you are wrong" and nothing else. Especially if it's "Evil Government" site. You know what else the Government says? The Earth is round, Alternative Medicine is bull, We have nearly eradicated several illnesses in America because of Vaccines, and that water is wet. Are we to just believe these things while Vaccines are evil? :eyeroll:

They also have yet to prove that vaccines murder thousands while illnesses we have nearly wiped out like Polio or Measles are somehow less deadly than the Vaccine.


I can understand and be fair to these people that hey, a little bit of cynicism can be healthy, and you don't have to trust the government fully if you don't want to. The keyword is "fully". Just like many other things, the governments of countries have flaws, and we can call them out for it through petitions, demonstrations (or riots, if things get really heated).

But anti-vaccination movement is just plain-old paranoia. It's unhealthy paranoia that if they are given the opportunity to win, they will screw over the entire human race by decades, or even a century.
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 5:31 am

Or even forever.

Did you know there's a vaccine for Ebola now?

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Andsed
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Postby Andsed » Fri May 17, 2019 5:31 am

Duhon wrote:Or even forever.

Did you know there's a vaccine for Ebola now?

Wait really? How effective is it?
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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 5:36 am

Andsed wrote:
Duhon wrote:Or even forever.

Did you know there's a vaccine for Ebola now?

Wait really? How effective is it?


About 97% if I remember correctly. It's being deployed in the North Kivu area of the Congo, where Ebola cases have been reported for the past year.

Two problems, though: the place is a warzone, and civilians are (given the situation) hostile to foreigners barging in with their fancy medical equipment. Those combined have driven the WHO to such desperation that its head has warned that the quarantine in place there can give away at any time.

You know what that means.

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Gormwood
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Postby Gormwood » Fri May 17, 2019 6:20 am

Duhon wrote:
Andsed wrote:Wait really? How effective is it?


About 97% if I remember correctly. It's being deployed in the North Kivu area of the Congo, where Ebola cases have been reported for the past year.

Two problems, though: the place is a warzone, and civilians are (given the situation) hostile to foreigners barging in with their fancy medical equipment. Those combined have driven the WHO to such desperation that its head has warned that the quarantine in place there can give away at any time.

You know what that means.

And batshit conspiracy theories about ebola and the vaccines.

Congo's Ebola response threatened by conspiracy theories, rumors
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Postby Icelandic Military Junta » Fri May 17, 2019 6:23 am

Gormwood wrote:
Duhon wrote:
About 97% if I remember correctly. It's being deployed in the North Kivu area of the Congo, where Ebola cases have been reported for the past year.

Two problems, though: the place is a warzone, and civilians are (given the situation) hostile to foreigners barging in with their fancy medical equipment. Those combined have driven the WHO to such desperation that its head has warned that the quarantine in place there can give away at any time.

You know what that means.

And batshit conspiracy theories about ebola and the vaccines.

Congo's Ebola response threatened by conspiracy theories, rumors

Great, so the next time there is an Ebola outbreak in the US that Thanoses the Population of the US I can blame Anti-Vaxxers
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Postby Umpus » Fri May 17, 2019 8:30 am

Valentine Z wrote:I also like how Aria totally ignored me and never countered my points. Now I'm not being pissy just because I got ignored. Rather, I would expect that you would at least challenge me or something to that effect. My points are not flawless, and they can indeed be countered/challenged if you really wanna.

With that aside, ahh, "I can't trust the government websites" argument that I have also heard countless times. And it's as baseless as ever. Just because something is from the government or from a health organisation, doesn't mean that it is instantly biased. Most of them are done with non-profit in mind.

I’m more annoyed that aria hasn’t actually brung up a point.
Like,a point.
Last edited by Umpus on Fri May 17, 2019 8:38 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Gormwood » Fri May 17, 2019 8:37 am

Umpus wrote:
Valentine Z wrote:I also like how Aria totally ignored me and never countered my points. Now I'm not being pissy just because I got ignored. Rather, I would expect that you would at least challenge me or something to that effect. My points are not flawless, and they can indeed be countered/challenged if you really wanna.

With that aside, ahh, "I can't trust the government websites" argument that I have also heard countless times. And it's as baseless as ever. Just because something is from the government or from a health organisation, doesn't mean that it is instantly biased. Most of them are done with non-profit in mind.

I’m more annoyed that aria hasn’t actually brung up a point.

Either an anti-vaxxer, or someone who thought it would be cute to play an anti-vaxxer.
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Postby Hammer Britannia » Fri May 17, 2019 10:40 am

Gormwood wrote:
Umpus wrote:I’m more annoyed that aria hasn’t actually brung up a point.

Either an anti-vaxxer, or someone who thought it would be cute to play an anti-vaxxer.

To be honest, I hope it's the latter
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 7:48 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Well you're wrong.

Then kindly explain why we are having all of these outbreaks?


Merely being unvaxxed doesn't put anyone in danger.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 7:49 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
I got news for you then - Millions of Americans aren't vaccinated. Go cry about how me not being vaxxed somehow endangers you, but the fact of the matter is that you cannot force people to receive them especially if they aren't infected with anything.

And we are seeing what’s happening when people don’t get vaccinated. Measles and other shitty things break out like crazy


If people who aren't vaccinated are guaranteed to be infected then we should be facing a much bigger outbreak.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 7:50 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:Then kindly explain why we are having all of these outbreaks?


Merely being unvaxxed doesn't put anyone in danger.


Being infected does.

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Postby Napkizemlja » Fri May 17, 2019 7:50 pm

The recent measles outbreak is incredibly disheartening. America was essentially free of measles in 2000 and this just signifies a dI stressing decline in public health knowledge. My hope is that's it's justhe a minor bump instEads of the start of something worse.
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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 7:51 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Yet you can still be rid of measles if you seek treatment. You don't have the right to go out in public and infect others with measles, but that doesn't mean you can make people get vaccinated.

So your fine with the government mandating that those with measles or other contagious issues be quarantined against their will yet mandatory vaccines are evil?


If they are infecting others yes, if they're just sitting at home playing videos games and waiting for the measles to heal on it's own then no.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 7:52 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:And we are seeing what’s happening when people don’t get vaccinated. Measles and other shitty things break out like crazy


If people who aren't vaccinated are guaranteed to be infected then we should be facing a much bigger outbreak.


Well, first, they have to be exposed to those carrying the pathogen/s in question.
Last edited by Duhon on Fri May 17, 2019 7:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 7:53 pm

Duhon wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
Merely being unvaxxed doesn't put anyone in danger.


Being infected does.


While not being infected does not.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 7:54 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
No it doesn't, and you can go elsewhere with that authoritarian bullshit. Especially considering that millions of people don't get vaccinated yet most of them don't get infected still, it is a higher possibility for someone to get it if they aren't vaxxed, but it's more about exposure.

Ya know you keep say that your not anti-vaccines yet you keep using language and terms that anti-vaxxers use, like “vaxxed” for instance


Association fallacy.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 7:55 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Thermodolia wrote:So your fine with the government mandating that those with measles or other contagious issues be quarantined against their will yet mandatory vaccines are evil?


If they are infecting others yes, if they're just sitting at home playing videos games and waiting for the measles to heal on it's own then no.


The problem there is that they're still free to move elsewhere, exposing themselves to the uninfected and the immunologically vulnerable.

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 7:56 pm

Thermodolia wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:You're going get many people refusing to get vaccinated along with armed patriot groups who aren't just going to stand idly by as you drag their friends and neighbors out of their homes.

Is that a threat I hear? So you’re supporting an armed Insurrection against the state then?


Of course, I support insurrections against government overreach. and for their own sake they'd best not implement what you propose.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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Duhon
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Postby Duhon » Fri May 17, 2019 7:56 pm

Chernoslavia wrote:
Duhon wrote:
Being infected does.


While not being infected does not.


And what guarantees that that stays that way? Vaccination.

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Chernoslavia
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Postby Chernoslavia » Fri May 17, 2019 7:58 pm

Duhon wrote:
Chernoslavia wrote:
If they are infecting others yes, if they're just sitting at home playing videos games and waiting for the measles to heal on it's own then no.


The problem there is that they're still free to move elsewhere, exposing themselves to the uninfected and the immunologically vulnerable.


We have laws against people infecting others with AIDs, we can just do the same with people who knowingly expose others to it along with a murder charge if they indirectly cause the death of others because of it.
What would things have been like if every security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive? Or if during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand? The Organs would quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

- Alexander Solzhenitsyn

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