Hundreds quarantined for measles in 2 CA universities.

[Chernoslavia]

How am I lying? How many people actually die from measles in the US? Answer the question.

Again misleading. The low death rate is the result of MMR.

Your FREEDUM!!!! does not overrule this.

Never said it wasn't.

Socialist Republic of Oceania is that way

[The Black Forrest]

Hmmm. You can have exceptions for things like autoimmune issues.

But otherwise, it’s ok to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B?

A highly contagious disease? Yes.

[Galloism]

Are you sure?

Depends. Are we talking legality or practicality?

I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.

[Chernoslavia]

I mean, it does beg the question if your bodily autonomy can be violated by order of the state in order to save the life of another human being.

The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.

IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.

[Galloism]

But otherwise, it’s ok to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B?

A highly contagious disease? Yes.

You’re attempting to narrow your answer to the question without any explanation as to the narrowing, but I’m not sure why.

[The Black Forrest]

The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.

IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.

What was that about being pro-disease?

[The Black Forrest]

A highly contagious disease? Yes.

You’re attempting to narrow your answer to the question, but I’m not sure why.

How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians were behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?

[Chernoslavia]

IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.

What was that about being pro-disease?

[Kowani]

Depends. Are we talking legality or practicality?

I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.

Yes.

The State can violate one’s bodily autonomy so as to prevent the bodily autonomy of others from being negatively violated.

IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.

Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.

[Chernoslavia]

I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.

Yes.

IF the person is infected and spreading it maybe, otherwise you can't do shit.

Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.

Can't do that and you won't.

[The Black Forrest]

Yes.
Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.

Can't do that and you won't.

Hmmm? If there is a vote on enforcement? Guess what he will vote for.....

[Kowani]

Yes.
Nope. If they aren’t vaccinated.

Can't do that and you won't.

I am arguing from a should perspective, but we’ve done this song and dance already.

[Galloism]

I’m asking you to confirm if it’s ok for the state to violate the bodily autonomy of Person A to protect Person B from harm.

Yes.

You’re attempting to narrow your answer to the question, but I’m not sure why.

How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians on behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

[Gormwood]

Because medical authorities know what they're talking about. Unlike wacko, homeopathic, anti-vax horseshit peddlers.

Once people are adults though, there’s that whole bodily autonomy problem one might say.

If only that was the case instead of anti-vaxxers already being vaccinated and turning their children into Nurglings.

[Galloism]

Once people are adults though, there’s that whole bodily autonomy problem one might say.

If only that was the case instead of anti-vaxxers already being vaccinated and turning their children into Nurglings.

And of course we can do things about that. Child welfare is a well established legal principle.

[Kowani]

Yes.

How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians on behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

The other third party is a person with autonomy and agency, a fetus is neither of those things. Heck, it’s not sapient most of the time. The rest of the general public is.

[Chernoslavia]

Can't do that and you won't.

I am arguing from a should perspective, but we’ve done this song and dance already.

We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.

[Kowani]

I am arguing from a should perspective, but we’ve done this song and dance already.

We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.

What?

[The Black Forrest]

Yes.

How is the question of measles vaccines narrowing an answer?

A highly contagious disease is a damn good reason to "violate" "body integrity"

I sometimes wonder if libertarians on behind the vaccine causes autism nonsense which started this crap?

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

Obviously not every vaccine should be enforced. They tried in impress on my girl to get the uterine cancer vaccine. We declined due to her age (4th grade) never mind it wasn't contagious.

Measles is contagious and was extinct. Body integrity brought it back.

This being an argument for abortion? Bring it on; if they haven't tried already. Never mind they aren't concerned about the concept of body integrity.

[Gormwood]

We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.

What?

Red Plague Good, Gubmint BAD!

[Galloism]

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

The other third party is a person with autonomy and agency, a fetus is neither of those things. Heck, it’s not sapient most of the time. The rest of the general public is.

Babies aren’t sapient either, for the record. It’s a little fuzzy, but we tend to think of them as sapient when they can pass the mirror test, usually somewhere between 18 and 24 months.

[Kowani]

The other third party is a person with autonomy and agency, a fetus is neither of those things. Heck, it’s not sapient most of the time. The rest of the general public is.

Babies aren’t sapient either, for the record. It’s a little fuzzy, but we tend to think of them as sapient when they can pass the mirror test, usually somewhere between 18 and 24 months.

Fair, but they’re not the only ones endangered by the lack of vaccination.

[Gormwood]

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

Obviously not every vaccine should be enforced. They tried in impress on my girl to get the uterine cancer vaccine. We declined due to her age (4th grade) never mind it wasn't contagious.

Measles is contagious and was extinct. Body integrity brought it back.

This being an argument for abortion? Bring it on; if they haven't tried already. Never mind they aren't concerned about the concept of body integrity.

Say, does measles cause birth defects? If they're consistently pro-life and not merely fetus fetishists it might be something they should worry about.

[Chernoslavia]

We shouldn't as it could lead to things that are beyond the government's control.

What?

You're going get many people refusing to get vaccinated along with armed patriot groups who aren't just going to stand idly by as you drag their friends and neighbors out of their homes.

[Galloism]

I’m asking for a particular reason. Has nothing to do with autism.

This notion, that we can forcibly vaccinate a person, temporarily violating their bodily autonomy, in order to protect a third party from harm is extremely problematic.

Namely, it gives extremely good cover to antiabortion activists, who are arguing roughly the same thing and for the same reason, that the violation of bodily autonomy is only temporary but it protects a third party from death.

I’m a big fan of vaccines, they’ve done more good than most people understand, but as soon as you go down that road that we can violate bodily autonomy to protect a third party, you open yourself to consequences we don’t want as a society.

Obviously not every vaccine should be enforced. They tried in impress on my girl to get the uterine cancer vaccine. We declined due to her age (4th grade) never mind it wasn't contagious.

Measles is contagious and was extinct. Body integrity brought it back.

This being an argument for abortion? Bring it on; if they haven't tried already. Never mind they aren't concerned about the concept of body integrity.

One of the hazards of politics - every argument you use can and will be used against you later. The Supreme Court ruling against Obama on the ACA Medicaid expansion is now defending sanctuary cities and states from Donald trump.

Stop giving antiabortion activists ammunition to use against you.

Bodily integrity is important, and we should keep it as a first principle - even if we have to pay the blood price. Because the alternative is even worse.