Right Wing Discussion Thread XV: A New Hoppe

[United Muscovite Nations]

We are regurgitating stats that you have no understanding of I see.

No dear, you've made a claim you have yet to substantiate and I just provided evidence that shows the U.S. alone had thousands of new Abrams to its fleet total between 1981-1987. The U.S. had four tank divisions in the ETO by then, there is no way the U.S. just had two battalions of Abrams in 1989.

I like you OEP, but your reading comprehension here isn't great.

Two battalions of M1A1

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

No dear, you've made a claim you have yet to substantiate and I just provided evidence that shows the U.S. alone had thousands of new Abrams to its fleet total between 1981-1987. The U.S. had four tank divisions in the ETO by then, there is no way the U.S. just had two battalions of Abrams in 1989.

I like you OEP, but your reading comprehension here isn't great.

Two battalions of M1A1

Five actually. If Reforger did not get sunk in the Atlantic. The two in Germany was forward deployed.

[Duhon]

Dugin's Eurasianism is often cited as belonging to the same spectrum of these movements,[39] as well as also having influences from Hermetic, Gnostic and Eastern traditions.[40]

I bet he just watched Evangelion and thought that the Human Instrumentality Project would be a cool thing to do in real life.

More seriously, I don't understand the supposed Gnostic influence which is supposed to have been had on people like Dugin. Unless he seriously believes that this world is the evil creation of a chaotic Demiurge, which would raise more questions than it would answer.

My take is that he was simply born warped from the beginning, and, being a man of vast reserves of impulsive creativity but rather poor means of enunciating them, articulated his passion for... ahem... applied eschatology... by latching on to ideologies that seemed most likely to lead to that direction.

[Torrocca]

Last I checked, neither you nor I were born in time for the treason of the slave-owners. There's no "we" here for you to fetishize, for you're not one of those who was involved in that era of history.

For one, I never claimed I was anywhere. Next, you stated this:

Imagine being an American """nationalist""" and siding with the slave-owning traitors or literal Nazis lmao

I was explaining how Southerners are able to do both. Do try to keep up.

You sure have a fickle definition of what being a Southerner entails because I sure as fuck don't share your shitty ability to fetishize the slave-owning shitstain traitors of the CSA or the fucking Nazis of Nazi Germany lmao

That's generally what happens when you literally can't rebuild your society which you caused destruction to by being treasonous bastards.

It's not like they ever acted like they were any part of the Union afterward, despite that.

By 1910 the South had recovered its Pre-War total of industry and by 1900 was about the same in terms of population.

Fucking lmao, fifty-or-so-fucking-years after the war ended. 10/10

And yes, they did actually. Joe Wheeler was literally one of the main U.S. commanders in Cuba

You mean the same Wheeler who, thirty years after the war, helped fuel Lost Causer bullshittery by acting like slavery wasn't the cause of the war? Wow, he sure integrated well into the Union, huh?

and Forrest offered to rejoin the U.S. Army after the Civil War.

That's not very telling of him having pro-Union sentiments post-war for somebody who became the KKK's first fucking Grand Wizard, champ.

[Duhon]

One of the most fascinating things in the 19th century is the Russo-American Friendship that was integral during the American Civil War and continued well into the Great War, until it was crushed by the Bolsheviks. What makes it all the more interesting is that it stands in stark contrast to later Russo-American relations, and its something I'd like to see returned.

Also, if Russia went to war with Britain over the Civil War, Australia faced the real threat of invasion. Now that'd be some alt-history.

Say what? By whom?! Russia???

[Totally Not OEP]

No dear, you've made a claim you have yet to substantiate and I just provided evidence that shows the U.S. alone had thousands of new Abrams to its fleet total between 1981-1987. The U.S. had four tank divisions in the ETO by then, there is no way the U.S. just had two battalions of Abrams in 1989.

Ctrl-F for M1A1 please.

Dude, this is why you don't argue with History majors.

NORTHAG was the responsibility of the Anglo-Germans, with support from the Dutch and then eventually U.S. reinforcements; NORTHAG was never the U.S. main responsibility. What you actually want to look at is CENTAG, which was the main zone of U.S. responsibility in Germany.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

I like you OEP, but your reading comprehension here isn't great.

Two battalions of M1A1

Five actually. If Reforger did not get sunk in the Atlantic. The two in Germany was forward deployed.

Assuming that Fulda was a maskirovka and the main thrust was against the Belgians... the weakest of all of NATO... the war would've been disastrous.

[Totally Not OEP]

No dear, you've made a claim you have yet to substantiate and I just provided evidence that shows the U.S. alone had thousands of new Abrams to its fleet total between 1981-1987. The U.S. had four tank divisions in the ETO by then, there is no way the U.S. just had two battalions of Abrams in 1989.

I like you OEP, but your reading comprehension here isn't great.

Two battalions of M1A1

Because he literally picked NORTHAG when the U.S. was mainly deployed in CENTAG; he literally doesn't even know the NATO zones of operation in the Cold War.

[Austria-Bohemia-Hungary]

Ctrl-F for M1A1 please.

Dude, this is why you don't argue with History majors. :lol:

NORTHAG was the responsibility of the Anglo-Germans, with support from the Dutch and then eventually U.S. reinforcements; NORTHAG was never the U.S. main responsibility. What you actually want to look at is CENTAG, which was the main zone of U.S. responsibility in Germany.

And? Do you voluntarily engage the enemy where he is the strongest or do you go for the guys with the Leopard 1A1's and Kanonenjagdpanzers?

[Totally Not OEP]

Dude, this is why you don't argue with History majors.

NORTHAG was the responsibility of the Anglo-Germans, with support from the Dutch and then eventually U.S. reinforcements; NORTHAG was never the U.S. main responsibility. What you actually want to look at is CENTAG, which was the main zone of U.S. responsibility in Germany.

And? Do you voluntarily engage the enemy where he is the strongest or do you go for the guys with the Leopard 1A1's and Kanonenjagdpanzers?

Which wasn't the point at hand. Time to admit to being wrong about the M1 deployments.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Say what? By whom?! Russia???

Yep, since Australia was a British colony it would have been in the crosshairs of Russian war efforts in the Pacific.

[Duhon]

Torra, things are more easily explained when you consider the fact that the Union won the civil war but not the war of words over the fate of US blacks; in a very real sense, ex-Confederates like Davis or Forrest did not need to reintegrate into a society they had waged war against, for the Union eventually came over to externalize their disdain for racial egalitarianism.

[Totally Not OEP]

You sure have a fickle definition of what being a Southerner entails because I sure as fuck don't share your shitty ability to fetishize the slave-owning shitstain traitors of the CSA or the fucking Nazis of Nazi Germany lmao

Okay, but we were mainly talking about me anyway.

Fucking lmao, fifty-or-so-fucking-years after the war ended. 10/10

Your original claim was that they weren't able to recover at all.

You mean the same Wheeler who, thirty years after the war, helped fuel Lost Causer bullshittery by acting like slavery wasn't the cause of the war? Wow, he sure integrated well into the Union, huh?

And again, you shift from your original point was that they didn't make an effort to rejoin the Union.

That's not very telling of him having pro-Union sentiments post-war for somebody who became the KKK's first fucking Grand Wizard, champ.

TFW Indiana was Anti-America in the 1920s apparently.

[Torrocca]

You sure have a fickle definition of what being a Southerner entails because I sure as fuck don't share your shitty ability to fetishize the slave-owning shitstain traitors of the CSA or the fucking Nazis of Nazi Germany lmao

Okay, but we were mainly talking about me anyway.

Mmhmm.

Fucking lmao, fifty-or-so-fucking-years after the war ended. 10/10

Your original claim was that they weren't able to recover at all.

And I'm certain they did all of that on their own and totally had no help whatsoever from the pro-Union states during Reconstruction.

You mean the same Wheeler who, thirty years after the war, helped fuel Lost Causer bullshittery by acting like slavery wasn't the cause of the war? Wow, he sure integrated well into the Union, huh?

And again, you shift from your original point was that they didn't make an effort to rejoin the Union.

Hun, I never said that. I said they acted like they weren't much of a part of it, which is proven by your examples lmao.

That's not very telling of him having pro-Union sentiments post-war for somebody who became the KKK's first fucking Grand Wizard, champ.

TFW Indiana was Anti-America in the 1920s apparently.

I love how this is utterly irrelevant to anything I was saying.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

It's ironic that Russian strategy towards Australia was directly influenced by the Confederate successes with Alabama, in that a small force could still wreak havoc on the enemy. The Russian fleet would have taken the poorly defended goldfields and sheep-rearing areas of Australia. Even if they couldn't hold the area due to French and British naval superiority, the damage to Britain's economy and prestige would have been considerable.

It's interesting to think about, and quite out there as alt-histories go.

[Hanafuridake]

Somewhere, in some alternate timeline, a Red Army band is marching down an old country road in their grey coats, and then the music starts playing...

"AlMoSt HeAvEn, WeSt ViRgInIa"

It's probably in the same timeline where Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia form a leftist unity pact. Both are about as realistic.

[Totally Not OEP]

Mmhmm.

We literally just did the quote chain a post or two back.

And I'm certain they did all of that on their own and totally had no help whatsoever from the pro-Union states during Reconstruction.

Actually yes, and if anything were held back by the North; look up Pittsburgh pricing sometime.

Hun, I never said that. I said they acted like they weren't much of a part of it, which is proven by your examples lmao.

Semantics, and it's quite laughable to claim they weren't much part of the Union when Wheeler literally went to Cuba to command the U.S. forces there.

I love how this is utterly irrelevant to anything I was saying.

Completely relevant, because Indiana was the main den of the Klan in the early 20th Century. Your claim was that Forrrest's association invalidates his Post-War efforts; does the same not then hold for Indiana?

[Duhon]

It's ironic that Russian strategy towards Australia was directly influenced by the Confederate successes with Alabama, in that a small force could still wreak havoc on the enemy. The Russian fleet would have taken the poorly defended goldfields and sheep-rearing areas of Australia. Even if they couldn't hold the area due to French and British naval superiority, the damage to Britain's economy and prestige would have been considerable.

It's interesting to think about, and quite out there as alt-histories go.

Unsettling, but not ultimately damaging -- it'll be like the British acquisition of southeast Asian territories during the 18th and 19th centuries by the vicissitudes ot war, only to surrender them once hostilities cease.

[Torrocca]

And? Do you voluntarily engage the enemy where he is the strongest or do you go for the guys with the Leopard 1A1's and Kanonenjagdpanzers?

Which wasn't the point at hand. Time to admit to being wrong about the M1 deployments.

I like how you've disproven literally nothing here since ABH only claimed there were two M1A1 battalions in NORTHAG and not the entire fucking defensive network lmao

Mmhmm.

And I'm certain they did all of that on their own and totally had no help whatsoever from the pro-Union states during Reconstruction.

Actually yes, and if anything were held back by the North; look up Pittsburgh pricing sometime.[/quote]

You sure could provide some proof instead that they did it all on their own.

Hun, I never said that. I said they acted like they weren't much of a part of it, which is proven by your examples lmao.

Semantics, and it's quite laughable to claim they weren't much part of the Union when Wheeler literally went to Cuba to command the U.S. forces there.

Half of your fucking arguments revolve around bitching about semantics LMAO. And it's not semantics to say they rejoined the Union but barely acted like it lol.

I love how this is utterly irrelevant to anything I was saying.

Completely relevant, because Indiana was the main den of the Klan in the early 20th Century. Your claim was that Forrrest's association invalidates his Post-War efforts; does the same not then hold for Indiana?

I'm sorry, are you implying the entirety of Indiana was the KKK?

[The Xenopolis Confederation]

Somewhere, in some alternate timeline, a Red Army band is marching down an old country road in their grey coats, and then the music starts playing...

"AlMoSt HeAvEn, WeSt ViRgInIa"

It's probably in the same timeline where Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia form a leftist unity pact. Both are about as realistic.

Nazi Germany and Soviet Russia did have a brief pact. Broken by the Nazis of course.

[Totally Not OEP]

I like how you've disproven literally nothing here since ABH only claimed there were two M1A1 battalions in NORTHAG and not the entire fucking defensive network lmao

And as I pointed out talking about NORTHAG is pointless because the U.S. main zone of deployment was in CENTAG.

You sure could provide some proof instead that they did it all on their own.

I don't recall saying that, but I can definitely say Reconstruction funds did not exist to rebuild the South.

Half of your fucking arguments revolve around bitching about semantics LMAO. And it's not semantics to say they rejoined the Union but barely acted like it lol.

Again, please do explain how literally commanding the main theater of warfare in the Spanish-American War is barely acting like rejoining the Union in the case of Wheeler?

I'm sorry, are you implying the entirety of Indiana was the KKK?

Of course not, but I am saying it's weird to use Forrest's attachments to the Klan as a way of claiming him to be Anti-American; can you use Indiana's position as the main bastion of the Klan during the 1920s to claim it too was barely a part of the Union?

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Unsettling, but not ultimately damaging -- it'll be like the British acquisition of southeast Asian territories during the 18th and 19th centuries by the vicissitudes ot war, only to surrender them once hostilities cease.

I think its main impact would be felt elsewhere, in the States. The Russian fleet in Australia would have distracted some portion of the Anglo-French Pacific Fleet from carrying out operations against the US west coast. Ultimately though, it'd be moreso embarrassing than damaging. I imagine the Russians would have arrived, calmly looted the place and left before their fleets could be blockaded in port.

[Torrocca]

I like how you've disproven literally nothing here since ABH only claimed there were two M1A1 battalions in NORTHAG and not the entire fucking defensive network lmao

And as I pointed out talking about NORTHAG is pointless because the U.S. main zone of deployment was in CENTAG.

Which is irrelevant to the entire point being made that NORTHAG was fucking useless to the Soviet tank divisions, which was the most likely place to be attacked.

GL HF having all your tanks capable of defeating T-80s massed together in one cluster that's easily encircled because everyone else couldn't tackle them with their tanks.

You sure could provide some proof instead that they did it all on their own.

I don't recall saying that, but I can definitely say Reconstruction funds did not exist to rebuild the South.

Me: "And I'm certain they did all of that on their own"
You: "Actually yes"

Fucking LMAO. Sure. You totally didn't say that at all.

Half of your fucking arguments revolve around bitching about semantics LMAO. And it's not semantics to say they rejoined the Union but barely acted like it lol.

Again, please do explain how literally commanding the main theater of warfare in the Spanish-American War is barely acting like rejoining the Union in the case of Wheeler?

Doesn't mean shit when he helped perpetuate the lie that the Union was to blame for the Civil War. :^)

I'm sorry, are you implying the entirety of Indiana was the KKK?

Of course not, but I am saying it's weird to use Forrest's attachments to the Klan as a way of claiming him to be Anti-American; can you use Indiana's position as the main bastion of the Klan during the 1920s to claim it too was barely a part of the Union?

That's, again, fucking irrelevant. Forrest willingly chose to become the KKK to the point of being a Grand Wizard. I'm doubtful Indiana sanctioned the KKK.

[Jack Thomas Lang]

Doesn't mean shit when he helped perpetuate the lie that the Union was to blame for the Civil War. :^)

That's insane, his actions trump any personal opinions he had. If he later served as a US military commander, I'd say that he integrated back into the US well enough.

[Totally Not OEP]

Which is irrelevant to the entire point being made that NORTHAG was fucking useless to the Soviet tank divisions, which was the most likely place to be attacked.

GL HF having all your tanks capable of defeating T-80s massed together in one cluster that's easily encircled because everyone else couldn't tackle them with their tanks.

Thank goodness 70% of Soviet tank strength is T-54/55s, T-64s, and the like.

Thank goodness the U.S. can transfer forces from CENTAG to NORTHAG.

Thank goodness the Anglo-Germans also have tanks with the same armor or equal variety to the M1's.

Thank goodness the aforementioned are also using the 120mm cannon on their tanks, again just like the M1s.

Should I continue?

Me: "And I'm certain they did all of that on their own"
You: "Actually yes"

Fucking LMAO. Sure. You totally didn't say that at all.

Care to repeat the full quotation?

Doesn't mean shit when he helped perpetuate the lie that the Union was to blame for the Civil War. :^)

I'm still waiting.

That's, again, fucking irrelevant. Forrest willingly chose to become the KKK to the point of being a Grand Wizard. I'm doubtful Indiana sanctioned the KKK.

It's completely relevant, because otherwise you're holding a double standard that doesn't make logical sense. And yes, actually Indiana did:

By 1922 the state had the largest organization nationally, and its membership continued to increase dramatically under the leadership of D.C. Stephenson. It averaged 2,000 new members per week from July 1922 to July 1923, when he was appointed as the Grand Dragon of Indiana. He led the Indiana Klan and other chapters he supervised to break away from the national organization in late 1923.

Indiana's Klan organization reached its peak of power in the following years, when it had 250,000 members, an estimated 30% of native-born white men. By 1925 over half the elected members of the Indiana General Assembly, the Governor of Indiana, and many other high-ranking officials in local and state government were members of the Klan. Politicians had also learned they needed Klan endorsement to win office.