[IDEAS] Ideas for SC Resolutions

[Third Asopia]

Your best starting point is to contact regional figures in Atlantian Oceania for help in identifying the riding's sports history and contributions. Falcania, Vilita, Audioslavia, Commerce Heights, Starblaydia, 95X, and Turori would make good first points of contact. You can also find them on whatever Discord channel, the NS Sports community is using these days.

I'll be worried if Turori has anything to say that you didn't already hear from Vilita. Those are well-known puppets.

Heh.
Sadly I haven't got any responses yet.

[Unibot III]

I'll be worried if Turori has anything to say that you didn't already hear from Vilita. Those are well-known puppets.

Heh.
Sadly I haven't got any responses yet.

Can someone point Third Asopia to the NS Sports Discord channel? That'd be a big for him in researching AO.

[Audioslavia]

There's a link to it in the Guide to Sports Roleplaying. This link should take you to it.

[Unibot III]

There's a link to it in the Guide to Sports Roleplaying. This link should take you to it.

Thanks Audioslavia!

[Marxist Germany]

This needs updating

[Unibot III]

This needs updating

True, I’ll look at it soon.

[Bodger]

I feel Almonaster Nuevo's services to flag making has been longer and far more illustrious than Imagey Nation, who is commended, not to mention his long time service to Canada.

I'm equally ok with repealing Imagey Nation's commend.

[Unibot III]

I feel Almonaster Nuevo's services to flag making has been longer and far more illustrious than Imagey Nation, who is commended, not to mention his long time service to Canada.

I'm equally ok with repealing Imagey Nation's commend.

I think Almonaster Nuevo is very much a commendable figure, but repealing Imagey Nation's commendation is unfair. Yes, he left the game. But Imagey contributed a lot while he played NS, including the NS flags. If we repeal everyone's commendation every time they leave NS and their record slips into the recesses of the public memory, that's missing the point of commendations - they're a public record. A testament to good service and contributions to NationStates.

[Fauxia]

So this place has been quiet for several months, but I’ve been thinking about something and thought it was worth bringing up here.

That is: Whether it would be appropriate to repeal and replace very old resolutions that simply don’t hold up to the standard of modern ones (like what was done for Macedon).

The two I’d single out specifically - with respect to Todd McCloud - are Commend Kandarin and Commend Goobergunchia. I do not doubt the appropriateness of commendations for those nations, but both are almost completely devoid of details. I think there are two questions raised by this:

1. Whether the historical significance of those resolutions (especially the first, as it’s the first commendation) renders them untouchable.
2. Whether it is appropriate to repeal and replace, given that Kandarin is fully retired and his nation in the hands of Naivetry, and that Goobergunchia is (as far as I know) retired, although active for the first time in several years.

My own opinion is no for the first, maybe for the second (any repeal and replace of Goobergunchia’s would likely have to go through them).

Thoughts?

[Jakker]

So this place has been quiet for several months, but I’ve been thinking about something and thought it was worth bringing up here.

That is: Whether it would be appropriate to repeal and replace very old resolutions that simply don’t hold up to the standard of modern ones (like what was done for Macedon).

The two I’d single out specifically - with respect to Todd McCloud - are Commend Kandarin and Commend Goobergunchia. I do not doubt the appropriateness of commendations for those nations, but both are almost completely devoid of details. I think there are two questions raised by this:

1. Whether the historical significance of those resolutions (especially the first, as it’s the first commendation) renders them untouchable.
2. Whether it is appropriate to repeal and replace, given that Kandarin is fully retired and his nation in the hands of Naivetry, and that Goobergunchia is (as far as I know) retired, although active for the first time in several years.

My own opinion is no for the first, maybe for the second (any repeal and replace of Goobergunchia’s would likely have to go through them).

Thoughts?

I have always been a strong advocate of not repealing old resolutions simply to replace them with something more detailed/cleaner that matches modern standards. Regardless of what people say, I fully see repealing a resolution as one step below removing it from history. I understand that there is still a record of it. I understand that it just is a strikethrough, but it feels like taking away from the timeline and history of the SC. The SC has changed a lot in the short time that it has existed. Standards will always change. Five years from now we will have different standards or different rules. I don't think it makes anything right or better. At the same time, I understand the value of having more details. It would serve to document the accomplishments of those players for future generations to see. My personal preference would be creating a new SC thread that serves as a museum of sorts with added details and amendments to existing resolutions if it simply about adding more context or elevated standards. But unless a region or player has done something that calls for repealing older resolutions or there are major errors, I really don't want to see those go away. It still pains me that the 1st SC resolution was repealed. I would hate to see these others repealed as well.

[Guy]

So this place has been quiet for several months, but I’ve been thinking about something and thought it was worth bringing up here.

That is: Whether it would be appropriate to repeal and replace very old resolutions that simply don’t hold up to the standard of modern ones (like what was done for Macedon).

The two I’d single out specifically - with respect to Todd McCloud - are Commend Kandarin and Commend Goobergunchia. I do not doubt the appropriateness of commendations for those nations, but both are almost completely devoid of details. I think there are two questions raised by this:

1. Whether the historical significance of those resolutions (especially the first, as it’s the first commendation) renders them untouchable.
2. Whether it is appropriate to repeal and replace, given that Kandarin is fully retired and his nation in the hands of Naivetry, and that Goobergunchia is (as far as I know) retired, although active for the first time in several years.

My own opinion is no for the first, maybe for the second (any repeal and replace of Goobergunchia’s would likely have to go through them).

Thoughts?

I'd be supportive of this approach. If there are figures deserving of a better fleshed-out commend, that should be passed. It's certainly a better alternative, especially in terms of serving as a proper record of their achievements, than a thread in this forum.

If there is overwhelming concern with the repeal of these old resolutions (a concern that I do not share), then perhaps a second commend can be passed first, and then leave the question of a repeal in the hands of SC voters.

[Unibot III]

I think it might be wise to survey the WA environment before launching into a Repeal & Replace of Kandarin / Goober's commendations because it would be a real shame for either's commendation to be jeopardized by a case where the repeal passes but the replacement doesn't.

A replacement commendation for Goober could face (unfair but predictable) criticism that he didn't continue NSWiki and there was a perception that he abandoned it entirely (he did help get us a tarball of its data to recover NSWiki - but even then people complained that he shouldn't have passed the tarball because it contained password data so ???? People cannot be pleased).

A replacement commendation for Kandarin could face (again, unfair but predictable) criticism that after the passage of the original commendation, he resigned suddenly and gave his nation to a foreigner without consulting TRR. Maybe you could pursue the redo of 'Commend Kandarin' via the TRR WA ministry that's starting up? Having TRR involved in the WA resolution might nip the perception in the butt that Kandarin's exit was problematic for TRR.

Personally, I think this kind of line of criticism is common in the WASC but it's unfair to nominees who have lives of their own. However, it'd be important to know for certain you're repealing something that you can replace before you repeal it.

(Or you can do a double commend & repeal as Guy suggests - if you can get by Rule 2...)

EDIT: Scratched off Common Territories and Pierconium from the OP. And players are welcome to dump their suggestions here if they like.

[Sedgistan]

A replacement commendation for Kandarin could face (again, unfair but predictable) criticism that after the passage of the original commendation, he resigned suddenly and gave his nation to a foreigner without consulting TRR. Maybe you could pursue the redo of 'Commend Kandarin' via the TRR WA ministry that's starting up? Having TRR involved in the WA resolution might nip the perception in the butt that Kandarin's exit was problematic for TRR.

Or face fair criticism that loveable person though he was, his presence as TRR Delegate for years stifled any attempts to develop the region. His exit was poorly handled, but what came before is more questionable.

From recollection, Todd was okay with #SC1 being replaced with a better written Condemnation of Macedon, so Goobs and Kandarin should be the same. They're historical resolutions from the formative days of the SC, but they're still recorded there even when repealed and replaced.

[Unibot III]

A replacement commendation for Kandarin could face (again, unfair but predictable) criticism that after the passage of the original commendation, he resigned suddenly and gave his nation to a foreigner without consulting TRR. Maybe you could pursue the redo of 'Commend Kandarin' via the TRR WA ministry that's starting up? Having TRR involved in the WA resolution might nip the perception in the butt that Kandarin's exit was problematic for TRR.

Or face fair criticism that loveable person though he was, his presence as TRR Delegate for years stifled any attempts to develop the region. His exit was poorly handled, but what came before is more questionable.

I was being gentle. I really like Kandarin, he's a good guy and I don't think it was his intention to oversee an extended period of gross inactivity but the facts are the facts. I would put Kandarin and Loop in a similar category of foundational mainstays of their regional communities - yes, it took their departure for the regions to grow beyond them, Founder's Syndrome, perhaps, but they also brought stability to GCRs that were at one time new and small and anarchic. I can appreciate how painful it is to stabilize a new GCR with the wrong people at the helm after watching Balder and Osiris.

I think a new commendation of Kandarin would have to be careful not to tread into mythology. The truth is Kandarin had a sterling reputation in NSGP but TRR never really developed into a constitutional state of any real sort under his leadership. It was always a bit feudal and undercooked. Today's TRR is almost entirely a product of the 2010-2011 constitutional reforms, especially Sedge and Crazygirl's initiative.

[Lord Dominator]

Kandarin's current Commend at least looks sufficiently bare that a Replace & Repeal strategy is pretty viable, same as with Macedon. Goober I am less able to tell.

[Warzone Codger]

I think a new commendation of Kandarin would have to be careful not to tread into mythology. The truth is Kandarin had a sterling reputation in NSGP but TRR never really developed into a constitutional state of any real sort under his leadership. It was always a bit feudal and undercooked. Today's TRR is almost entirely a product of the 2010-2011 constitutional reforms, especially Sedge and Crazygirl's initiative.

To what extent is it acceptable to apply the standards.of our time to long past historical C&Cs? Most repeals of commendations are due to either committing egregious acts so they are no are no longer deserving, or were basically Insta-repeals where we corrected a mistake (True North or Canterlot).

This might not be a problem with Commend Kandarin as he was worthy regardless of his limitations, but there might be others who are there because the community considers them worthy in 2011 but meh now.

[Unibot III]

I think a new commendation of Kandarin would have to be careful not to tread into mythology. The truth is Kandarin had a sterling reputation in NSGP but TRR never really developed into a constitutional state of any real sort under his leadership. It was always a bit feudal and undercooked. Today's TRR is almost entirely a product of the 2010-2011 constitutional reforms, especially Sedge and Crazygirl's initiative.

To what extent is it acceptable to apply the standards.of our time to long past historical C&Cs? Most repeals of commendations are due to either committing egregious acts so they are no are no longer deserving, or were basically Insta-repeals where we corrected a mistake (True North or Canterlot).

This might not be a problem with Commend Kandarin as he was worthy regardless of his limitations, but there might be others who are there because the community considers them worthy in 2011 but meh now.

Don't get me wrong, I'd support "Commend Kandarin." It's just the original text made him out to be Jesus. Kandarin was a foundational father figure for the Realms and I think therein lies why he is most commendable. The region was not very active during most of his tenure, he wasn't successful in entrenching a government or constitutional regime, and he exited by handing his account to a foreigner (which was a backdoor way of handing the region to The Empire). These are just plain facts that can't be glossed over with rhetoric: TRR was a corpse in 2010. But he brought a constructive stability and wise counsel to the region. I think he left rich soil for the region to grow from - his love for history, deep-thinking, stoicism, and going-against-the-grain is pervasive in the Rejected Realms. It's baked into our region's DNA. You can't escape it. TRR is still Kandyland and the BBQ will never die.

[Drop Your Pants]

But while you wait, you can write a commend for me. Just to get my name out there to the few people who haven't GHR'd my name.

[Fauxia]

But while you wait, you can write a commend for me. Just to get my name out there to the few people who haven't GHR'd my name.

Or condemn.

The Security Council,

Appalled by those who do not wear pants,

Hereby condemns Drop Your Pants

It’ll pass easy.

[Lord Dominator]

It's just the original text made him out to be Jesus.

I don't think it really does that even - it's really seems to just be saying that he's been running TRR for a long while, and is pretty good at it.

RECOGNIZING the player of Kandarin as a leader in various aspects of NationStates.

OBSERVING his tireless efforts in maintaining order, stability, and leadership in a "collecting" region without means of ejecting or banning the competition.

VIEWING his knowledge, teaching, and leadership in NationStates roleplay, in both in character and out of character aspects, for off-site and on-site forums.

OFFICALLY praises the player behind the nation of Kandarin and recognizes his achievements with a commendation from the World Assembly.

To what extent is it acceptable to apply the standards.of our time to long past historical C&Cs? Most repeals of commendations are due to either committing egregious acts so they are no are no longer deserving, or were basically Insta-repeals where we corrected a mistake (True North or Canterlot).

This might not be a problem with Commend Kandarin as he was worthy regardless of his limitations, but there might be others who are there because the community considers them worthy in 2011 but meh now.

I primarily operate on thoughts on the quality of the C&C - there's some we can pretty easily say that we can do far better, and others that are good enough that we could do better, but there isn't a great deal of point. Of course, this also slides in instances where the target is CTE - I wouldn't agree with touching Goob's when he was gone, for instance.

[Unibot III]

But while you wait, you can write a commend for me. Just to get my name out there to the few people who haven't GHR'd my name.

I'll write it and you can complain about it being too wordy and too preachy.

[Fauxia]

I think a new commendation of Kandarin would have to be careful not to tread into mythology. The truth is Kandarin had a sterling reputation in NSGP but TRR never really developed into a constitutional state of any real sort under his leadership. It was always a bit feudal and undercooked. Today's TRR is almost entirely a product of the 2010-2011 constitutional reforms, especially Sedge and Crazygirl's initiative.

To what extent is it acceptable to apply the standards.of our time to long past historical C&Cs? Most repeals of commendations are due to either committing egregious acts so they are no are no longer deserving, or were basically Insta-repeals where we corrected a mistake (True North or Canterlot).

This might not be a problem with Commend Kandarin as he was worthy regardless of his limitations, but there might be others who are there because the community considers them worthy in 2011 but meh now.

I wouldn’t support a straight repeal. A replace and repeal would be more appropriate. I wouldn’t support applying 2020 standards of achievement to 2010 nations, but I do think there should be some continuity of writing.

[Jakker]

I wouldn’t support applying 2020 standards of achievement to 2010 nations, but I do think there should be some continuity of writing.

As I said before, standards will continue to evolve. It is possible that the rules of the SC change one day which would totally shake up previous resolutions. I recognize that these older resolutions are well-written, but they speak more to the time. We don't hold repeals to these same standards largely because they cannot be repealed, but also because the main goal of the repeal is to do its job. These older resolutions are still able to retain impact even without holding up to modern standards. I would even argue it adds more character. I think the SC benefits from not being overly obsessed with stylistic consistency. The GA gets to have historical resolutions because of the move from UN to WA. While this is not the same, I really like the idea of the SC having something similar even in just name.

[Fauxia]

SC writing largely hasn’t evolved in five years. I don’t think SC writing is going to change significantly without a bunch of huge rule changes.

The first few SC resolutions were made in the very beginning, before the onset of Rule 4 (or any Security Council rules, really), and several were quickly repealed. Heck, we had to liberate the whole security council because they weren’t of high standards!

I’m kind of rambling. The point is that even if writing convention did change significantly in 2025 (and I don’t think they will), the difference will be that 2020 had standards. 2009 Security Council didn’t really have any (which is why resolutions that only hint at why the nominee should be commended or condemned in the first place!) except the worthiness of the nominee.

[Jakker]

SC writing largely hasn’t evolved in five years. I don’t think SC writing is going to change significantly without a bunch of huge rule changes.

There is currently a plan to rewrite the rules soon.