by Cataluna » Sun Apr 14, 2019 9:48 pm
by Escade » Sun Apr 14, 2019 10:35 pm
by The Church of Satan » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:32 pm
by Greater Moldavi » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:21 am
by Armaros » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:30 am
The Church of Satan wrote:How then do we hold such players accountable? Especially when many GPers are so eager to turn a blind eye to the toxic, abusive behavior of others when it benefits them. Yes this is a political game but does it really have to be so disturbingly like real-world politics? Is it truly worth driving players out of a region or worse out of the game just for power? Sadly a lot of players do say yes, behind closed doors while they come here to this forum and pretend to be decent. It doesn't matter to them. Don't give me any of that OOC/IC bs either. IC "personas" are derived from the OOC personality that created them. Few people are willing to admit this but the poor conduct they justify as being part of their IC "persona" is not a facade. Maybe they are just in part, a bad person. Maybe they're so delusional or egotistical that they can't believe they aren't the white knight they make themselves out to be.
by Jar Wattinree » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:44 am
Armaros wrote:So you are saying that playing this game as a persona different from your actual persona is not possible? This is a game, for christ's sake. If I play this game by couping others for the fun of the ensuing chaos in-game, I must be an OOC anarchist too?
This is, first and foremost, a game, and if you can't differentiate playing a game from people's OOC believes/views/personalities, then maybe you shouldn't play it.
by Kurnugia » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:17 am
by Malphe » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:27 am
Kurnugia wrote:I will quickly point out the irony of all of this: The OP's region deems the NPO to be fascist similar of the ilk like Kaiserreich, Farkasfalka and NE.
Wanting to change the NSGP OOC toxic culture is well and good however, you have to be the change you want to see.
by Cataluna » Mon Apr 15, 2019 5:51 am
Kurnugia wrote:I will quickly point out the irony of all of this: The OP's region deems the NPO to be fascist similar of the ilk like Kaiserreich, Farkasfalka and NE.
Wanting to change the NSGP OOC toxic culture is well and good however, you have to be the change you want to see.
by Greater Moldavi » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:15 am
Malphe wrote:Kurnugia wrote:I will quickly point out the irony of all of this: The OP's region deems the NPO to be fascist similar of the ilk like Kaiserreich, Farkasfalka and NE.
Wanting to change the NSGP OOC toxic culture is well and good however, you have to be the change you want to see.
My understanding of this is that neither Cormar or Anti support the views portrayed in that dispatch but aren't comfortable with taking it down because Topid put it up. Let's try to avoid pointing fingers and deeming people to be hypocrites in this thread, getting the feeling you could pull that card on just about anyone and it isn't constructive.
by McChimp » Mon Apr 15, 2019 6:44 am
by Kurnugia » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:02 am
by Cataluna » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:16 am
by Greater Moldavi » Mon Apr 15, 2019 7:18 am
Cataluna wrote:I hope to be able to respond something more than the people talking about Pacifica in this thread sometime tonight. To respond to Ivan and Kurnugia, I am working on it. That's not a satisfying answer, but I don't know what else to tell you. Giving up on Pacifica is not an option for me. The community here is worth more than a dispatch.
by The Gilded Star » Mon Apr 15, 2019 8:10 am
by Aynia Moreaux » Mon Apr 15, 2019 11:35 am
by Escade » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:12 pm
by The Church of Satan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 1:46 pm
Armaros wrote:So you are saying that playing this game as a persona different from your actual persona is not possible? This is a game, for christ's sake. If I play this game by couping others for the fun of the ensuing chaos in-game, I must be an OOC anarchist too?
This is, first and foremost, a game, and if you can't differentiate playing a game from people's OOC believes/views/personalities, then maybe you shouldn't play it.
Greater Moldavi wrote:Do you consider anyone who has ever played a first-person shooter to be a potential IRL murderer?
Greater Moldavi wrote:I'm tired of players not taking responsibility for their actions.
Jar Wattinree wrote:because this is still RP, but of a similar nature, not OOC stuff that has precious little to do with this game.
Aynia Moreaux wrote:People are free to choose what route they will take, and sometimes that route is self serving and harmful to others. That is toxicity.
This is hard for me to put but I've been manipulated and used in this game to the point that it almost caused me a mental breakdown. People who were supposed to be some of my closest friends back stabbed, manipulated and gas lighted me into doing what they wanted. I am one of the prey players, and I know that. I play this game the nice way, but not everyone does. Some people are here to play the game without any thought to the consequences that it might have on others.
I don't believe that the answer to this is just putting up with it and letting things continue. The answer is that *all* of us need to be proactive in stamping out toxic behaviour when it happens. Bullies are going to bully, the onus is on us to stand up to it. It sucks and isn't fair that the people who are most vulnerable are the ones who have to be the most vigilant, but coming together with a herd mentality when something happens to stamp it out is one of the only ways to show that toxicity is not tolerated. Behind every screen is a person with real emotions and a real life, and I think that needs to be at the forefront of our minds when we play this game and deal with others.
Nationstates is such an open game. You get to shape your world how you want it and there aren't many rules. And that's the catch. All in all, the players set the rules here, and it's up to the players to come together and put an end to toxicity. We can have politics without the harm.
by Unibot III » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:10 pm
[violet] wrote:I mean this in the best possible way,
but Unibot is not a typical NS player.
Milograd wrote:You're a caring, resolute lunatic
with the best of intentions.
by Glen-Rhodes » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:27 pm
by The Church of Satan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:33 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:Gameplay became nasty in the OOC sense as "Gameplay" became more of a singular community, particularly with the rise of the Discord community. Before then, it was a lot of arguing about the actual game between people who mostly spent time in their own regions. It's not the first online community that's devolved into being an unpleasant cesspool half of its existence. But the tides turned when this part of the game became less about regions posting statements and R/D groups taking pot shots about R/D, and more about hanging out as a defined "GP" community. Isolated incidents happened, but there was no "in-group" or "out-group" specific to GP-- it was all based around regions and R/D groups and their own spread out IRC channels and forums. Nowadays, what region you're in matters very little. Gameplay has its own natives.
If that community doesn't police itself, then obviously nothing will change. Mods can police these forums with an iron fist, but they can't touch the Discord community. And really, it's that community that has, so far, refused to self-police and kick out the people who turn things sour. And if you want to look at that, it's the same as with any other online community: look at the people in charge.
by Glen-Rhodes » Mon Apr 15, 2019 2:43 pm
The Church of Satan wrote:Except where players are abused by those who police their region.
by Reventus Koth » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:07 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:The Church of Satan wrote:Except where players are abused by those who police their region.
Regions suffer the same issues as any other defined community, including have in- and out-groups, fighting, and sometimes devolving into terribleness. That's kind of my point. The reason Gameplay as a whole has become this bad is because it's now a single community, rather than a forum that's utilized by a bunch of disparate regions and R/D groups to act out the game. But Gameplay as a community is leaderless and anarchic, at least in the sense that there isn't a forum administration or a court or a cabinet that can kick people out. But the reason Gameplay became a single community is because of IRC and then Discord, and Discord certainly does have administrators.
When regions find their community is growing toxic, they get together and kick the problematic ones out, and don't let them back in. (Whether the punished players find that fair is immaterial, and there has been and always will be ongoing fights about who should be kicked out. So whatever.) That didn't used to be possible in Gameplay, because there wasn't a single Gameplay. But now there is, except the community still behaves as if there isn't and everything is still anarchy. There's definitely a higher level of responsibility that the community leaders can take, even if it's not possible to permanently exile someone from the whole Gameplay community, unless they get DOS'd by mods.
Xanthal wrote:Only raiders can win in this war- a defender can keep them from winning one region, one update at a time, but there will always be the next region, the next update, and the next, forever.
by Altinsane » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:19 pm
by The Church of Satan » Mon Apr 15, 2019 3:31 pm
Glen-Rhodes wrote:When regions find their community is growing toxic, they get together and kick the problematic ones out, and don't let them back in.
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