Rebellion against tyrants is obedience to God [OOC]

[Posteastan]

Posteastan, how do you want to play the airport battle?

Take it slowly. The battle will decide a lot. I think that Allanea still has men there. Specialists, a lot more capable than the National Guard unit. Let's wait for them. I will soon update the National Guards' actions but their moral is low and they are surprised. It is hard enough to die when you actually get paid for it...

[Great Nortend]

I'm not sure what to do regarding the airport attack. How large is Leozina anyway? What is its population like? I've been assuming somewhere around 300,000 people, but I'm not sure if this is too large or too small.

[Caracasus]

The fact that there's only really access via the airport and two ports creates some logistical problems for everyone, whether it's aid or whatever you want to get in.

[Allanea]

I'm having it logged that Allanea's strategic goals, IC, are, as follows:

1. To shank human traffickers.
2. To distribute humanitarian aid.
3. To forge long-term relationships with whatever nations or entities help us with 1 and 2 and maybe gain them as trade partners or allies going forward.

My OOC goals are mainly to write about shanking human traffickers, and if some manner of IC benefits fall out, that's cool.

[Caracasus]

I'm having it logged that Allanea's strategic goals, IC, are, as follows:

1. To shank human traffickers.
2. To distribute humanitarian aid.
3. To forge long-term relationships with whatever nations or entities help us with 1 and 2 and maybe gain them as trade partners or allies going forward.

My OOC goals are mainly to write about shanking human traffickers, and if some manner of IC benefits fall out, that's cool.

Sounds good! I am thinking that OOC we should agree (not just us but anyone else who wants to) to work together on the humanitarian aid front and probably pool resources on it. THen create an IC post to that effect.

[Allanea]

I wonder if the rivers are navigable.

[Posteastan]

I'm not sure what to do regarding the airport attack. How large is Leozina anyway? What is its population like? I've been assuming somewhere around 300,000 people, but I'm not sure if this is too large or too small.

Yes, about 350,000 or somthing. And probalby 100,000 refugees.

I wonder if the rivers are navigable.

Yes, that's why they are on the map. They are navigable and important lifelines of Posteastan. Though they have some navigational hazards like blown up bridges and unexploded ordnance.

[Lux Pulchrae]

When this Jack guy at the airport says "the war is over" that just a figure of speech right? Also how close is the airport to the river?

[Great Nortend]

Sure the two sides at the airport will simply shell or attack each other and both sides would be weakened drastically leaving them open to attack by further National Guard units or possibly by the Royalists. As the reinforcements from Karevka are on their way, it would be imperative to retake the airport immediately to ward them off. I'm not sure how that could be achieved, barring some sort of miracle.

Otherwise, seeing the planes arrive from Karevka would mean the Royalists would likely realise they would be outnumbered very quickly. Will the Karevkna army even try and retake Leozina? It seems they want to go to the 7th Province to support the Stateists. Frankly, I'm not sure why they couldn't just build an airstrip near Tabolov if they wanted to get troops there. They're not hard to build.

[Newark Aristocracy]

I will start RPing arms shipments to the Crime Syndicate by ISIS.

[Lux Pulchrae]

Sure the two sides at the airport will simply shell or attack each other and both sides would be weakened drastically leaving them open to attack by further National Guard units or possibly by the Royalists. As the reinforcements from Karevka are on their way, it would be imperative to retake the airport immediately to ward them off. I'm not sure how that could be achieved, barring some sort of miracle.

Otherwise, seeing the planes arrive from Karevka would mean the Royalists would likely realise they would be outnumbered very quickly. Will the Karevkna army even try and retake Leozina? It seems they want to go to the 7th Province to support the Stateists. Frankly, I'm not sure why they couldn't just build an airstrip near Tabolov if they wanted to get troops there. They're not hard to build.

Not if Karevka keeps it up at this pace. Karevka you're going to fast and giving no one, especially Allanea anytime to respond. You assumed absolutely no retaliation from them and just took it. I mean, to me, you could slow down a tad.

[Allanea]

To be clear, I'm not sure what Karevka wants with the Allaneans IC at all.

[Caracasus]

Kareveka, I think you need to slow down a bit mate, if you put together a post where you are taking an action - especially an attack - you should wait until others have responded before continuing that thread.

[Great Nortend]

I agree; Karevka, you are going very quickly and leaving us with no time to respond or provide any defence. I'm not sure how any faction could compete with almost a regiment of troops being offloaded right in the middle of the only airport around (excluding the military ones I suppose). It also seems very rash and not very well thought through; why is Karevka helping the Stateists by essentially declaring war? Karevka is acting overly powerfully in my opinion; it's unreasonable to just inject hundreds of troops, tanks and vehicles within a few days' notice.

[Caracasus]

If I am reading the OP's rules correctly, no player should be able to simply teleport armies into the region. If those tanks and helicopters have not been mentioned before then we might have a problem.

I am obviously awaiting the OP's input here, but can I suggest a pause on this particular battle until it is sorted out in this thread?

Logistics and groundwork is important, and while they are not engaging in fighting I think that we can learn a lot from Kenmoria's posts here. There is always build up of supplies and groundwork before they begin the next stage of their plans.

If we allow the teleporting of armies, it puts players who put in that groundwork at a very unfair disadvantage.

[Allanea]

This may help.

[Great Nortend]

It seems to be bordering on god-modding as well. I'm not sure how Posteastan sees this, as it seems he too is showing that there appears to be little resistance to the invasion, but essentially claiming that the entire airport is safe enough for a commander to make an inspection of his troops, dig trenches, send reinforcements by air, and fly flags at the entrance is to me premature. Are the Allaneans putting up no fight? The National Guard all killed? Something that should in my mind take at least a few days seems to have been done far too quickly.

[Allanea]

To be clear, the Allaneans are not, in fact, offering any resistance, they're trying to negotiate and see if the weird new group is willing to work with them, or at least let them get out of the country.

[Great Nortend]

Oh I see. I thought they threatened to retaliate if they weren't allowed to leave peacefully. It still seems a bit too sudden.

[Posteastan]

This may help.

Added to the front page!

[Posteastan]

That mass at the airport. It needs to get sorted.

Now, what do we have here? Players are moving in different time scales. Karevka is using days or weeks while the rest is stuck in hours and minutes. As Great Nortend has pointed out, this borders on god-moding. I don't see god-moding as such yet because the planes and all were loaded at home and send on their way. The problem is that it in my opinion this is escalating too fast. At the moment I am running 1d4+6 fractions at the same time (Yeah Nortend I know that you told me!!!) which is quite some work. All plots and sub-plots are fascinating and there are so many ideas that have come up that I would have never even dreamed of. Let's try to slow things down a bit and enter a more character based RP around the airport. If that is okay with everybody. In my personal opinion Allanea is somewhat like Nationstates' own Israel. They do what they want where they want whenever they want and you are free to complain about that all you want. I would take the dilemma at the airport much more serious. Overrunning the few men with a tank brigade will be almost automatically successful but what are the consequences? From what I can see Allanea, the character, not the player would retaliate. And I am pretty sure that most soldiers have at one time in their life heard of Allanea and the term 'disproportionate response'. Just saying. It just takes a hand full of cruise missiles to render the airport and the troops on it useless. While Posteastan is disarmed the other nations are not. As I said I would pay much more attention to the consequences these rushed actions will have for the men at the frontline and for the nation they come from. I don't object military action or invasion but from my point of view things at the airport need to slow down. Lux Pulchrae and Great Nortend are working hard to keep everybody happy and play along, but if the situation at the airport does not shift to a slower speed they have no other chance than pouring in troops at the same speed and we will all be moving tank divisions. My suggestion is that the spearhead of Karevka's invasion remains where it is but no more troops are flown in or out till there is green light, so to say, from all other players involved in the Leozina situation. What do you say?

[Great Nortend]

I agree that we all need to slow down and try and get a sense of time here. Some people have dropped far behind and others are at the forefront. I've tried to 'link up' the timelines a bit but it's tenuous at most. I would advise Karevka think more about the global impact of taking aid workers hostage and essentially invading Posteastan overtly with tanks and troops, with no discernable weakness at all. All Karevka's troops seem completely unified, without any slackness or otherwise; it seems they have great skill and cunning, and sheer luck; they've been able to travel to Leozina with little hindrance, no actual discordance, they've been able to just sidle into the airport without the guards being suspicious at all regarding their uniforms and lack of authority, or apparently any resistance at all. They've been able to muster up divisions of troops, fly them and land apparently within the day, with no weather, wind &c. difficulties at all. It all means the only way we can retaliate is by sending in hundreds of our own troops.

Rivienland, are you still interested in participating? If not, please let us know!

[Allanea]

To be clear, as I understand the situation, Allanean troops are in no way barring anyone's access to the airport. They have a camp near the airfield [or otherwise would be put up somewhere nearby], and they don't want foreigners looting their camp/their weapons.

But they don't want a fight unless someone absolutely insist on having one. They'll almost inevitably be overrun as I see it, but since they believe [fairly reasonably] that they'll be tortured or something upon capture they probably won't surrender as it stands.

So the attackers have three options:

1. Ignore the Allaneans and do their own thing at the airport.
2. Negotiate with the Allaneans to continue receiving humanitarian aid/assistance/perhaps even weapons.
3. Fight the Allaneans. Almost inevitably they'll win as I see it, but obviously this will force Allanea to retaliate.

[Great Nortend]

“As soldiers of the Karevkan National Army, we advise you, Colonel Wilson, to lay down your arms and surrender. If there is no surrender, we shall shell your location until you and your men either die or give up. Your decision must be broadcast over the PA system. Make your decision quickly.”

This seems like there is little chance of 1. It would be most convenient if Karevka's troops just march away to Tabolov like they indicated they would. Hint hint.

[Caracasus]

Quick question for Posteastan.

Obviously Karevkan has landed a large contingent of well equipped soldiers. Does any faction in Posteastan have access to the kind of specialist expertise or materials needed to keep this equipment functioning?