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Pacifica Embassy: Relocation to Thalassia

Talk about regional management and politics, raider/defender gameplay, and other game-related matters.
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Armaros
Diplomat
 
Posts: 628
Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Armaros » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:29 am

Doing it Rightland wrote:
A Bloodred Moon wrote:Kuriko mediated.

The dispatch states Kuriko was an observer. To me (and many others, I assume) an observer watches, but does not involve themselves. Hence, I assumed that another body had actually involved themselves in mediation, instead of Kuriko. Nevertheless, thank you for the clarification on the language.

If Kuriko would be just an "observer" that would imply the talks were open to observers. surprise surprise - they were not open to anyone.

Doing it Rightland wrote:
A Bloodred Moon wrote:Reading anything before posting about it might be useful.

Yes, that's why I did.

:eyebrow: Did you? Because in the Dispatch it reads the following: "...the Republic of Pacifica entered into negotiations with then-Delegate Kitsco of St Abbaddon to reach a peaceful and diplomatic resolution to the conflict over St Abbaddon. Pacifica's priorities were twofold: First, we wanted to ensure an immediate transition of St Abbaddon's Delegacy to Topid, our Founder and the oldest remaining native of St Abbaddon." which clearly indicates Pacifica made demands and was part of the negotiators, which makes your question of wether Pacifica was mediator or not sound silly.

Doing it Rightland wrote:
A Bloodred Moon wrote:You also didn't get Pacifica isn't the "leader of the APC", as to "meddling in the affairs of others", Cormac negotiating on behalf of his friend would be equal to the NPO? Now that's just sad.

First, it's never been clear who or what comprises the APC. If there were a definitive point of contact or representative for the APC, it might help towards a more unified negotiating platform with the NPO. So far, the major actions and policies of the APC have been almost exclusively published by Pacifica, so I naturally assumed them to be in charge.

You could also like, read the forums and you'd see a whole lot of folks declaring against the NPO. So no, it's not very unclear. Second: You claim that Pacifica posted nearly all stuff... Is just nothing but complete nonsense. Have you even been following what's going on rather then listening to whenever your NPO officers told you to pay attention?

Doing it Rightland wrote:As to "meddling", from the way the dispatch is written, it does not state Cormac entered negotiations on behalf of a friend. It states "the Republic of Pacifica entered into negotiations" which to me clearly indicated a full region exerting influence. If it was indeed just Cormac on behalf of a friend, then yes such a claim would be false. Had the dispatch described the negotiations as a single nation on behalf of Topid, rather than a full region, I would not have made such claims.

Yeah umm... what? Pacifica didn't as much "meddle" in St Abby's affairs as it did supporting an old native returning to his home from where he was forced out by the NPO. That old native is their founder, so it's not surprising Pacifica would step in.
An average Jo.
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My opinions are solely mine. I do not speak for regions I'm involved with unless stated otherwise.

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Doing it Rightland
Spokesperson
 
Posts: 143
Founded: Dec 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Doing it Rightland » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:47 am

Armaros wrote:If Kuriko would be just an "observer" that would imply the talks were open to observers. surprise surprise - they were not open to anyone.



Armaros wrote:Did you? Because in the Dispatch it reads the following: "...the Republic of Pacifica entered into negotiations with then-Delegate Kitsco of St Abbaddon to reach a peaceful and diplomatic resolution to the conflict over St Abbaddon. Pacifica's priorities were twofold: First, we wanted to ensure an immediate transition of St Abbaddon's Delegacy to Topid, our Founder and the oldest remaining native of St Abbaddon." which clearly indicates Pacifica made demands and was part of the negotiators, which makes your question of wether Pacifica was mediator or not sound silly.



Armaros wrote:You could also like, read the forums and you'd see a whole lot of folks declaring against the NPO. So no, it's not very unclear. Second: You claim that Pacifica posted nearly all stuff... Is just nothing but complete nonsense. Have you even been following what's going on rather then listening to whenever your NPO officers told you to pay attention?

I don't just listen to whatever the NPO tells me. I trust myself more than them. I have read through the forum stuff. I've seen the declarations of war, and read through all the logs posted detailing the NPO's actions. I mean that the majority of posts I've seen that aren't just declarations of war, stuff like the dispatch we're discussing, have been put out by Pacifica. If there are a substantial amount of others, please feel free to either post or TG the links so that I can read through them. After all, I just want truth.

Armaros wrote:Yeah umm... what? Pacifica didn't as much "meddle" in St Abby's affairs as it did supporting an old native returning to his home from where he was forced out by the NPO. That old native is their founder, so it's not surprising Pacifica would step in.

The part you're responding to what in response to A Bloodred Mood, who stated that Cormac was just negotiating on behalf of a friend. If that is the case, then yeah, you'd be absolutely right. However, the wording of the dispatch contradicts Moon's statement.
Just a nation trying to right the wrongs it can.

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Armaros
Diplomat
 
Posts: 628
Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Armaros » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:02 pm

Doing it Rightland wrote:
Armaros wrote:If Kuriko would be just an "observer" that would imply the talks were open to observers. surprise surprise - they were not open to anyone.



Armaros wrote:Did you? Because in the Dispatch it reads the following: "...the Republic of Pacifica entered into negotiations with then-Delegate Kitsco of St Abbaddon to reach a peaceful and diplomatic resolution to the conflict over St Abbaddon. Pacifica's priorities were twofold: First, we wanted to ensure an immediate transition of St Abbaddon's Delegacy to Topid, our Founder and the oldest remaining native of St Abbaddon." which clearly indicates Pacifica made demands and was part of the negotiators, which makes your question of wether Pacifica was mediator or not sound silly.



Armaros wrote:You could also like, read the forums and you'd see a whole lot of folks declaring against the NPO. So no, it's not very unclear. Second: You claim that Pacifica posted nearly all stuff... Is just nothing but complete nonsense. Have you even been following what's going on rather then listening to whenever your NPO officers told you to pay attention?

I don't just listen to whatever the NPO tells me. I trust myself more than them. I have read through the forum stuff. I've seen the declarations of war, and read through all the logs posted detailing the NPO's actions. I mean that the majority of posts I've seen that aren't just declarations of war, stuff like the dispatch we're discussing, have been put out by Pacifica. If there are a substantial amount of others, please feel free to either post or TG the links so that I can read through them. After all, I just want truth.

Not to crush your dreams... but this statement isn't about the NPO. So no, they put out 0 dispatches aimed at the NPO as you claim.

Doing it Rightland wrote:
Armaros wrote:Yeah umm... what? Pacifica didn't as much "meddle" in St Abby's affairs as it did supporting an old native returning to his home from where he was forced out by the NPO. That old native is their founder, so it's not surprising Pacifica would step in.

The part you're responding to what in response to A Bloodred Mood, who stated that Cormac was just negotiating on behalf of a friend. If that is the case, then yeah, you'd be absolutely right. However, the wording of the dispatch contradicts Moon's statement.

Moon is me. And yes, you're right, but Cormac was the one really negotiating, be it supported by Pacifica. And that Pacifica would be meddling in St Abby is still bullshit. Give me one reason for Pacifica not to negotiate for St Abby's independence.
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Altinsane
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Posts: 159
Founded: Feb 13, 2017
Moralistic Democracy

Postby Altinsane » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:19 pm

Cormac was not negotiating on behalf of APC. While Pacifica is indeed an APC member, Cormac isn't an APC Organizer. He is, however, President of Pacifica (which considers itself sister-Region to St Abbaddon) and friends with Topid. I suspect that Cormac's desire to find a peaceful conclusion in that situation stemmed from Pacifica's desire to see her sister succeed and Cormac's personal desire to help Topid out.

APC was not involved as a mediator or as part of Cormac's negotiations with Kitsco at all. We did of course speak to Kitsco on our own time, but our discussions with him were less negotiations and more a simple talk between humans and well wishes. Kitsco is a person with his own mind, and I don't think in this he had been treated like one for some time. Just like a child not doing what he was told, left to the wolves as punishment for his disobedience. I'm too softhearted of a girl for all that. Anyway, I guess that's kind of an aside, sorry. If you have questions on APC, feel free to contact me via TG or DM on Altino#4453. APC's Organizers run it as an entity, so I can't say that I am the main lady in charge, but I am at least the normal point of contact if you need anything from APC - be it Pacific natives in finding a new home to suit their playstyle, baffled GPers who think we have a case of the crazies, or angry regions tired of being subverted or called Userite scum simply because they exist who want to join the movement. I don't always have the answers you want to hear, but I am always here to give it my best shot! :)
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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2764
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:31 pm

Doing it Rightland wrote:First, it's never been clear who or what comprises the APC. If there were a definitive point of contact or representative for the APC, it might help towards a more unified negotiating platform with the NPO. So far, the major actions and policies of the APC have been almost exclusively published by Pacifica, so I naturally assumed them to be in charge.

To be clear, I'm not an Organizer in the APC, and I don't speak for the APC. But I am the President of Pacifica. So when Pacifica does something of significance with the APC, as was the case with the invasion of Azhukali, I make a statement on behalf of Pacifica -- not the APC. When Pacifica does something and the APC assists or is supportive in some way, as was the case with St Abbaddon, I credit the APC -- on behalf of Pacifica. But if you're looking for official statements from the APC, look for a statement published by their Organizers. If you want the official position of the APC, speak to an Organizer, don't assume my position on something is the APC's. I represent Pacifica, and we're proud to participate in the APC, but we don't speak for the APC.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Doing it Rightland
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Founded: Dec 20, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Doing it Rightland » Tue Jan 15, 2019 12:54 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:To be clear, I'm not an Organizer in the APC, and I don't speak for the APC. But I am the President of Pacifica. So when Pacifica does something of significance with the APC, as was the case with the invasion of Azhukali, I make a statement on behalf of Pacifica -- not the APC. When Pacifica does something and the APC assists or is supportive in some way, as was the case with St Abbaddon, I credit the APC -- on behalf of Pacifica. But if you're looking for official statements from the APC, look for a statement published by their Organizers. If you want the official position of the APC, speak to an Organizer, don't assume my position on something is the APC's. I represent Pacifica, and we're proud to participate in the APC, but we don't speak for the APC.

Thank you for the clarifications and explanation. My apologies for the pestering of you and everyone else here; I just want to understand the whole situation so I don't blindly follow people (like the NPO). I might reach out to the APC, but I believe that you all have answered my questions so far.
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The Tri State Area and Maine
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Posts: 223
Founded: Feb 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Tri State Area and Maine » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:09 pm

Jokesters wrote:
The Tri State Area and Maine wrote:You willingly surrendered it. You gave up St. Abbaddon to someone who hates the NPO. I imagine you didn't want to do that.

We didn’t give st abbaddon to anyone, nor surrendured, we ended the procterate agreement because they weren’t upholding it and then the APC took advantage that the NPO was leaving. So the NPO wasn’t surrendering anything to anyone and this “victory” isn’t really a victory but just taking a region that was defenseless.


You think the NPO is alright with Topid controlling St Abbaddon?

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Dragonisia
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Posts: 423
Founded: Antiquity
New York Times Democracy

Postby Dragonisia » Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:26 pm

The Tri State Area and Maine wrote:
Jokesters wrote:We didn’t give st abbaddon to anyone, nor surrendured, we ended the procterate agreement because they weren’t upholding it and then the APC took advantage that the NPO was leaving. So the NPO wasn’t surrendering anything to anyone and this “victory” isn’t really a victory but just taking a region that was defenseless.


You think the NPO is alright with Topid controlling St Abbaddon?


Yes, they are.. they are perfectly content with his return. They were upset at lack of progress with the formation of government. I literally offered my services as a means of trying to get things sorted within the past couple of weeks. Progress has been made, but the NPO also decided they needed their forces elsewhere and with a government in place it was time for the region to sink or swim.

Thus where we are now.

Pacifica's pressure to install Topid was only viable.. and only came.. after the NPO withdrawal. I was literally sitting comfy until NPO informed us of their departure.

We knew what was coming at that very moment, before anyone even said a word. Our only hope at that point was to preserve the skill that had managed to manifest in the existing government structure so Topid may use it on his return. That effort was successful.
Last edited by Dragonisia on Tue Jan 15, 2019 2:33 pm, edited 4 times in total.
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The Tri State Area and Maine
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Founded: Feb 02, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Tri State Area and Maine » Tue Jan 15, 2019 8:52 pm

Dragonisia wrote:
The Tri State Area and Maine wrote:
You think the NPO is alright with Topid controlling St Abbaddon?


Yes, they are.. they are perfectly content with his return. They were upset at lack of progress with the formation of government. I literally offered my services as a means of trying to get things sorted within the past couple of weeks. Progress has been made, but the NPO also decided they needed their forces elsewhere and with a government in place it was time for the region to sink or swim.

Thus where we are now.

Pacifica's pressure to install Topid was only viable.. and only came.. after the NPO withdrawal. I was literally sitting comfy until NPO informed us of their departure.

We knew what was coming at that very moment, before anyone even said a word. Our only hope at that point was to preserve the skill that had managed to manifest in the existing government structure so Topid may use it on his return. That effort was successful.


If the NPO didn't mind Topid in St. Abbaddon, then why did they invade St. Abbaddon in the first place?

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Pierconium
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Father Knows Best State

Postby Pierconium » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:27 pm

The Tri State Area and Maine wrote:
Dragonisia wrote:
Yes, they are.. they are perfectly content with his return. They were upset at lack of progress with the formation of government. I literally offered my services as a means of trying to get things sorted within the past couple of weeks. Progress has been made, but the NPO also decided they needed their forces elsewhere and with a government in place it was time for the region to sink or swim.

Thus where we are now.

Pacifica's pressure to install Topid was only viable.. and only came.. after the NPO withdrawal. I was literally sitting comfy until NPO informed us of their departure.

We knew what was coming at that very moment, before anyone even said a word. Our only hope at that point was to preserve the skill that had managed to manifest in the existing government structure so Topid may use it on his return. That effort was successful.


If the NPO didn't mind Topid in St. Abbaddon, then why did they invade St. Abbaddon in the first place?

Policies and priorities change. Not every is concerned about whether or not Topid ‘likes’ the Pacific. Personal squabbles are not, in my opinion, the best means of forming government policy.
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Pallaith
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Founded: Sep 20, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Pallaith » Wed Jan 16, 2019 1:30 am

The North Pacific celebrates this news and wishes St. Abbaddon well in its transition from protectorate to independent region. We hope it remains a peaceful transition and that this peace will continue well into the future, and are confident that with this change St. Abbaddon will be a stable and prosperous region once again.

Congratulations to everyone involved in making this happen, great work!
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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:40 pm

Pallaith wrote:The North Pacific celebrates this news and wishes St. Abbaddon well in its transition from protectorate to independent region. We hope it remains a peaceful transition and that this peace will continue well into the future, and are confident that with this change St. Abbaddon will be a stable and prosperous region once again.

Congratulations to everyone involved in making this happen, great work!

Pacifica appreciates the congratulations from The North Pacific, and I'm sure St Abbaddon appreciates the well wishes.

Best wishes on your new term as Delegate of The North Pacific as well!

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Honeydewistania
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Founded: Jun 09, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Honeydewistania » Thu Jan 17, 2019 2:35 am

Reploid Productions wrote:Holy crap, I leave town and am mostly offline for a week and I come back to the St Abby situation being resolved?! Damn guys, was not expecting that!

>Leaves NS for one week
>Problem in St Abby solved

hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

I think u should leave the game permenantly.

jk don't dos me
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Cormactopia Prime
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Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Mon Jan 28, 2019 4:27 pm

Image
January Update


Elections
    Pacifica held its first Presidential elections on the 10th of January 2019; voting closed on the 15th of January 2019.This was an opportunity for any member of the region to volunteer themselves and become a more important member of Pacifica.
    Nominations opened on the 5th of January for all 3 positions.
  • Presidential Election
    During the nomination period, only one user, the acting President, Cormactopia Prime put themselves forward.
    When the vote commenced, on the 10th of January, there was only one candidate, Cormactopia, with an option to re-open nominations. Overwhelmingly, the voters voted in favour of Cormactopia Prime returning as President, from his temporary role as President despite the option of re-opening nominations.
  • Speaker
    As in the Presidential elections, only one person put themselves forward for the position of Speaker. This was Qwabour Harbour. All the dates and times are the same as the Presidential.
    Once the voting commenced, all 8 voters, the same turnout for both the Presidential and Prime Minster elections, voted in favour of electing Qwabour Harbour.
  • Prime Minister
    Once again, only one person nominated themselves as Prime Minister for Pacifica. This was Wymondham2.
    With the same voter turnout as all other elections, Wymondham2 was unanimously elected as the Prime Minister of Pacifica.
Constitution

The Constitution of Pacifica was passed on the 5th of January. This lays out the ground rules for Pacifica in the future.
It is located here.

Ministries
The Ministries were set up by Cormactopia Prime & Wymondham2 upon their election as President and Prime Minister respectively.
  • Gameside Affairs
    Gameside affairs has been working to increase the activity of the on-site community of Pacifica, with the leadership of newly appointed minister Lower lukatonia (AKA Ham).
  • Community Affairs
    The Ministry of Community Affairs and Culture is working towards setting up new possibilities for Pacificans, such as roleplay, festivals and events. This is all understand the fairly new leadership of USS Merrimack.
  • Integration
    The Department of Integration is working on integrating new citizens into Pacifica.
  • Foreign Affairs
    The Foreign Affairs Department has been recently working towards gaining ties with Roleplay based regions, in an effort with the Community Affairs Ministry, to expand role play possibilities for Pacifica members. Alongside this, the department has been recruiting members for the Diplomatic Corps, filling our embassies full of life. The Department's recently appointed head is Toerana (Me!)
  • Military Affairs
    The Department of Military Affairs, with their new Secretary of Qwabour Harbour, has been working on expand the Pacifica Republic Armada, partaking in the liberation of St Abbaddon and partaking in ANTIFA raids, which Pacifica recently joined.
  • WA Affairs
    The Department of World Assembly Affairs, under its new head, Kostrorleauny, is working on advising Pacifica on how to vote in the World Assembly, possibly giving Pacifica a new uniting force, of World Assembly members.
  • Guardians
    The Guardians have been founded by Cormactopia Prime, a force to keep Pacifica safe in times of instability and insecurity, such as when the founder collapses due to a multitude of reasons. The members of the Guardians are USS Merrimack, also the Chair of the Guardians, Everland Republic, the former delegate, and Toerana, the Foreign Affairs Secretary. It is hoped that the Guardians will never have to see action, but they are ready in an instance of national security.
Anti-Griefing Policy
    In recent days, questions have been raised regarding Pacifica's opposition to unjustified regional destruction. To avoid causing any disputes with our diplomatic partners or fodder for our enemies, we wish to make our policy clear. The Republic of Pacifica is in fact opposed to unjustified acts of regional destruction against regions with active native communities. Such acts include the ejection or ban of natives from their regions, the imposition of regional passwords without disclosure to all natives, or the refounding of regions without native consent. To be clear, Pacifica is not a defender region, and in foreign policy we don't deal in moral absolutes. We recognize that there are cases in which such tactics can be justified, such as in the prosecution of a justly declared war or against fascist regions, among other examples. As an independent region, we will autonomously make determinations regarding justification for such tactics, or whether an active native community exists in a particular region, on a case by case basis. When our diplomatic partners are contributing to an invading force with destructive intent, if time permits we will endeavor to make such determinations in communication with them so they may, if they wish, make their case for the justified use of such tactics.

    It must be made clear going forward, however, that the Republic of Pacifica will work against such unjustified acts of regional destruction whenever they occur, as robustly as we are able, and no matter which regions are involved in carrying out the destructive acts. When possible, we will contribute to military liberation of regions threatened with these acts of destruction, including under circumstances in which destructive intent or the lack of such intent can't be reasonably determined. We will also take diplomatic action via the WA Security Council to prevent such acts of destruction, by sponsoring and voting for liberation resolutions to prevent imposition of regional passwords. Finally, we will reach out to native communities and encourage them to take countermeasures designed to thwart acts of regional destruction, both preemptively and during active invasions.

    Each of our diplomatic partnerships has been established because we have found some cultural, diplomatic, or military common ground with the partner region in question. We value our diplomatic partnerships, especially our partners in the Anti-Pacific Coalition, and we respect differences in views between us on these and other matters. We ask in return that our diplomatic partners respect our independence and understand that while we are willing to work with them on other endeavors, we will not sacrifice the independent pursuit of our regional values and interests. We emphasize that we have nothing but respect for our diplomatic partners and their sovereignty, including the sovereign exercise of military force as they see fit, provided such exercise of force doesn't include unjustified acts of regional destruction. We look forward to building upon the common ground we have already found and continuing to maintain strong relations with all of our diplomatic partners.

    /s/ Cormac Skollvaldr
    President of the Republic of Pacifica

    A More compressed version is here
Judicial Branch
  • Chief Justice
    Pacifica Potet was nominated and voted in as the Chief Justice of Pacifica. This establishes a new, independent, Judicial Branch to review cases and give people a fair trial, should they be found of breaking Pacifica Law.
    More Detail can be found in the act, located as well as the Criminal code of Pacifica, located here
Declaration of War upon the New Pacific Order

Pacifica voted unanimously in favour of declaring war upon the New Pacific Order (the Pacific), with the largest voter turnout seen this month, of 15.
The Declaration is located here

This goes in accordance with Pacifica's Anti Fascist Policy, which can be found here:
https://www.nationstates.net/page=dispatch/id=1042856

Legislature
This is a list of Legislature that has been passed by the the Pacifican Regional Congress.
The Pacifica
January Update

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Vulturret
Diplomat
 
Posts: 625
Founded: Aug 23, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby Vulturret » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:49 pm

Thank you for publishing this excellent update. It is good to see Pacifica continuing to do well.
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Bowzin
Envoy
 
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Founded: Aug 13, 2018
Libertarian Police State

Postby Bowzin » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:00 pm

Congrats on the success. Hopefully future elections will have more nominations
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Kostrorleauny
Bureaucrat
 
Posts: 57
Founded: Feb 10, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Kostrorleauny » Mon Jan 28, 2019 9:19 pm

I am proud to serve, may this be a most productive and prosperous a term as many folks (including myself) anticipate it to be. Semper Pacifica!
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Killer Kitty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 409
Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:13 pm

Cormactopia Prime wrote:When possible, we will contribute to military liberation of regions threatened with these acts of destruction, including under circumstances in which destructive intent or the lack of such intent can't be reasonably determined.


And thus the mission creep begins.

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2764
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:25 am

Killer Kitty wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:When possible, we will contribute to military liberation of regions threatened with these acts of destruction, including under circumstances in which destructive intent or the lack of such intent can't be reasonably determined.


And thus the mission creep begins.

As you're no doubt aware, invading forces are not always quick to advertise destructive intent. To limit ourselves only to when destructive intent has been made absolutely clear would be to seriously impair our ability to effectively thwart unjustified acts of regional destruction. Instead, it's important to look at things like the history of the invading force, the influence levels in the invaded region, etc., to reasonably ascertain the likelihood of destruction.

To use some examples, we would consider an invasion by Europeia or The Land of Kings and Emperors, regions which are known to either infrequently or never participate in unjustified regional destruction, to be low risk and we likely wouldn't take action. We would consider any invasion by The Invaders, particularly if they invade a region with low influence levels, to be high risk and we would probably take immediate action. The Black Hawks would fall somewhere in between, and that grey area is where there is likely to be some difficulty. But we're aiming for a commonsense, practical approach.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:32 am, edited 4 times in total.

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Armaros
Diplomat
 
Posts: 628
Founded: Apr 06, 2018
Father Knows Best State

Postby Armaros » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:13 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:
Killer Kitty wrote:
And thus the mission creep begins.

As you're no doubt aware, invading forces are not always quick to advertise destructive intent. To limit ourselves only to when destructive intent has been made absolutely clear would be to seriously impair our ability to effectively thwart unjustified acts of regional destruction. Instead, it's important to look at things like the history of the invading force, the influence levels in the invaded region, etc., to reasonably ascertain the likelihood of destruction.

To use some examples, we would consider an invasion by Europeia or The Land of Kings and Emperors, regions which are known to either infrequently or never participate in unjustified regional destruction, to be low risk and we likely wouldn't take action. We would consider any invasion by The Invaders, particularly if they invade a region with low influence levels, to be high risk and we would probably take immediate action. The Black Hawks would fall somewhere in between, and that grey area is where there is likely to be some difficulty. But we're aiming for a commonsense, practical approach.

If I may ask, which regions would Pacifica consider "destructive"?
An average Jo.
LWU | TBH | Lazarus | TEP
My opinions are solely mine. I do not speak for regions I'm involved with unless stated otherwise.

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2764
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:14 am

Armaros wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:As you're no doubt aware, invading forces are not always quick to advertise destructive intent. To limit ourselves only to when destructive intent has been made absolutely clear would be to seriously impair our ability to effectively thwart unjustified acts of regional destruction. Instead, it's important to look at things like the history of the invading force, the influence levels in the invaded region, etc., to reasonably ascertain the likelihood of destruction.

To use some examples, we would consider an invasion by Europeia or The Land of Kings and Emperors, regions which are known to either infrequently or never participate in unjustified regional destruction, to be low risk and we likely wouldn't take action. We would consider any invasion by The Invaders, particularly if they invade a region with low influence levels, to be high risk and we would probably take immediate action. The Black Hawks would fall somewhere in between, and that grey area is where there is likely to be some difficulty. But we're aiming for a commonsense, practical approach.

If I may ask, which regions would Pacifica consider "destructive"?

We wouldn't label many regions "destructive" just because they sometimes engage in destructive tactics. That would seem like just dismissing any such region as only being a destructive force, when in many cases they have much more to offer. So that's not really terminology we would use except in very rare cases in which regions seem only to exist for destructive purposes. I would call Macedon destructive. I wouldn't call The Black Hawks destructive.

That said, we all know there are regions with verifiable history of using destructive tactics, some more frequently than others, and some with varying degrees of justification. I doubt I could offer a comprehensive list, but if I did the names of the regions on it probably wouldn't be a surprise to anyone. We don't oppose all of those regions, and we wouldn't want to label all of them "destructive," but we do oppose unjustified destructive tactics.

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Killer Kitty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 409
Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:44 am

Cormactopia Prime wrote:That said, we all know there are regions with verifiable history of using destructive tactics, some more frequently than others, and some with varying degrees of justification. I doubt I could offer a comprehensive list, but if I did the names of the regions on it probably wouldn't be a surprise to anyone.


Hey man, if you want to be a Defender region, that's all cool, I just don't understand the need to "justify" your defending ideology and attempt to obscure it. Seems a little disingenuous.

Also, what's all this got to do with bringing down NPO?
Last edited by Killer Kitty on Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:46 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2764
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:34 pm

Killer Kitty wrote:
Cormactopia Prime wrote:That said, we all know there are regions with verifiable history of using destructive tactics, some more frequently than others, and some with varying degrees of justification. I doubt I could offer a comprehensive list, but if I did the names of the regions on it probably wouldn't be a surprise to anyone.


Hey man, if you want to be a Defender region, that's all cool, I just don't understand the need to "justify" your defending ideology and attempt to obscure it. Seems a little disingenuous.

We aren't a defender region. We're an independent region that engages in both invasions and defenses as our foreign policy values and objectives dictate, not according to absolutist raider or defender ideology. You can take your R/D nonsense and squabbling elsewhere, we aren't interested.

Killer Kitty wrote:Also, what's all this got to do with bringing down NPO?

Why would we focus exclusively on war with the NPO anymore than any other region? What does Lazarus' corporate theme have to do with taking down the NPO? What do Osiris' or TBH's tag raids have to do with it? Europeia's elections? That's an extremely silly question, even for you.

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Killer Kitty
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 409
Founded: Oct 08, 2005
Inoffensive Centrist Democracy

Postby Killer Kitty » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:25 pm

So I am forced to assume that Pacifica is stepping away from it's focused anti-NPO stance and is drifting onto other things?

I thought you guys were suppose to be the Pacific Army of the modern times. My mistake. Good luck with "not defending".

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Cormactopia Prime
Minister
 
Posts: 2764
Founded: Sep 21, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Cormactopia Prime » Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:44 pm

Killer Kitty wrote:So I am forced to assume that Pacifica is stepping away from it's focused anti-NPO stance and is drifting onto other things?

I thought you guys were suppose to be the Pacific Army of the modern times. My mistake. Good luck with "not defending".

We are no more "stepping away" from anything than any other region that does more than one thing at a time. We are committed to war with the NPO, and we are also committed to the other things we do. This is generally what's known as being a well-rounded regional community. Believe it or not, being a well-rounded regional community with multiple sources of activity is likely to help us out more against the NPO in the long run. Building community is how you get and keep people to fight for a cause. It's why, for example, 10000 Islands is still a powerhouse and Lone Wolves United is a footnote.
Last edited by Cormactopia Prime on Tue Jan 29, 2019 1:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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