Pokemon Discussion Thread: Generation II

[Pax Nerdvana]

SO me and my brother have been watching Pokémon in one giant binge and now we are on season 16.....I lost hope for the series after brock left.
Team rocket got serious all of a sudden...they don't even blast of anymore.

I pretty much stopped after I cpuldn't find the rest of Johto Journeys. I started D/P, but I never finished it.

[Olthar]

Let's start a discussion: what are your favorite and least favorite aspects of each generation?

Gen I
Favorite parts:
Gen I had the best rival. Silver was pretty good, but a bit too whiny. Every rival from Gen III onwards, though, has been thoroughly disappointing.
The Mew urban legend greatly enhanced the mystique of the game and was likely the sole reason Pokémon became as big as it was rather than being quickly forgotten as another mediocre game. Mew created the community of fans that persists to this day.
Least favorite parts:
Everything else. The world was boring and uninteresting. The 'mons were boring and uninteresting; most were just regular animals with anime eyes. And the combat was...not boring, but certainly not inspiring, either.
The bigger problem, however, was that the games were just broken. On top of having enough bugs that Bethesda games start to look stable, even the actual gameplay is horribly bad. The best way to describe the balance is non-existent. But it's not just the overpowered types and the useless types, even the moves are terrible, and there are so many broken exploits. There's a reason why everyone's Dragonite knew Wrap instead of Hyper Beam. The game was just so horribly put together that, in retrospect, I find it genuinely surprising that franchise even managed to continue.

Gen II
Favorite parts:
Well, the big thing about Gen II at the time was the mechanical innovation, but everything it did has been continued in subsequent generations, so I can't really point to it as my favorite part of this one. On the other hand, there's not much else unique about it that I still enjoy outside of nostalgia. Gen II is to Pokémon what Ocarina of Time is to Zelda: they're both immensely important to the development of their respective franchises, but they were eventually made entirely redundant by those future games. So, I guess the best I can do is say that it's cool that you can go back to Kanto, even if they did absolutely nothing with that potential.
Least favorite parts:
The Pokémon. Most of the new 'mons introduced in Gen II were ridiculously underpowered, and the few that were actually good were either obscure and hard to find (like Heracross) or not available until Kanto (like Houndoom). And that's something that really bothered me: why the fuck were there some Johto 'mons that could only be found in Kanto? How much brain damage do you need to think that's a good idea? Anyways, the new Pokémon were so disappointing that I ended up filling my teams almost entirely with Gen I 'mons, and that's just not right. I should be using more new 'mons than just my starter and Ampharos.
The second big issue I have with the game is the completely fucked up difficulty curve. The first four gyms are remarkably difficult (many people still view Whitney as the hardest leader in the franchise), but after Ecruteak, the game seems to plateau so extremely that you're lucky if you get your team to level 50 by the time you reach the Elite Four. What's up with that?

Gen III
Favorite parts:
The atmosphere. Hoenn is so beautiful and has such nice music that you can get really immersed into the world. I felt like I was actually exploring the region rather than just shuffling from one gym to the other.
The gyms. I thought the gyms were some of the best in the franchise with puzzles that actually made me think a bit, at least some of them. Plus, I really liked the Mossdeep gym. Having a double battle for the leader was very cool, and made it stand out a lot. Of course, I was a bit annoyed when three of their Pokémon were immune to earthquake.
Gardevoir. Nuff said.
Least favorite parts:
The worat rival on the series, yes even worse than Hau. At least Hau is an entertaining character despite being a shit rival, but Brendon/May are boring beyond belief, and Wally may as well not even be there. I seriously consider Hoenn to be the only region that doesn't actually have a real rival.
Too much water. I know this is basically just a joke now, but it's actually true, at least for me. There have been multiple playthroughs where I reached Lilycove and then just stopped playing because I didn't want to deal with all that surfing.
The plot was kinda shit. This was the first game where they tried making the plot an integral part of the game rather than just sorta being there, but they didn't bother making it actually good. Maxie and Archie are so interchangeable that I genuinely have to stop a moment to figure out which is which. Plus, the goal of Team Aqua is simply stupid and illogical. Assuming the Pokémon world is like ours, then most of the world is already covered in water. Adding more just makes no sense. It's such a stupid plan, that it actually pulls me out of the experience and ruins the immersion that I listed as one of my favorite parts.

Gen IV
Favorite parts:
The physical/special split. I know this has been carried over to the other games, which I mentioned as a disqualifier for the Gen II changes, but this one came late enough and had a large enough impact that I feel it's still valid to mention. This was huge and is still the single best mechanical fix they've ever done. It made so many formerly shitty 'mons actually viable and even took great strides at fixing entire types, like dark and ghost. It was just simply great.
The gyms. While most of the "puzzles" in Gen IV were atrocious (except the Snowpoint gym), the leaders, themselves, were among the most challenging in the franchise. I don't think I can point to a single one that I'd necessarily call "easy."
Mt. Coronet. Normally, I'm not a big fan of cave dungeons, but this one was big enough and intimidating enough that it really helped make the climax of the game seem epic. This was what Mt. Silver should have been.
Cynthia was, by far, the hardest champion in the franchise, and I loved it. Plus, she's hot.
Sinnoh Underground. I absolutely loved going down there and just mining for hours upon hours. My original Platinum file had a playtime of around 400 hours entirely because of the underground. I played it so damn much that I had around 60 something of the evolution stones, around 40 something of the fossils and plates, and I had been selling the shards and heart scales because I hit 99 a hundred hours ago. Sadly, I was never able to do the multiplayer part of it because I had no friends.
Least favorite parts:
Everything. Was. So. Damn. Slow. The movement was slow. The text speed was slow. The battle animations were slow. Evey fucking thing was just so fucking slow. I really want Gen IV remakes jusy so that they can fix this massive problem, especially because it's really the only one I have with the game.

Gen V
Favorite parts:
The story was great, definitely the best one on the series. I was especially a fan of the plot twist where the villains attacked the League. That was very much unexpected.
Reusable TMs, like the physical/special split, was a big deal, and it forever changed the way I play the game and build my teams. I just wish they hadn't used it as an excuse to hold back the best TMs until the post game.
The post game content was also great with multiple new areas to explore and even a (slight) continuation of the story.
Pokéstar Studios. This was the one secondary feature in the entire franchise that I actually 100%ed. It was so fun and entertaining.
The sequels were the best in the entire franchise by far. Instead of just being the same game with a few more features tacked on, BW2 were actually new games with a new story and a lot of stuff tacked on.
The habitat list. I loved this feature so much, and I'm really sad that it never came back.
Least favorite parts:
The absurd lack of 'mons. I understand their desire to make BW a sort of soft reboot and reinvoke the same feeling when playing the original games, but they did it completely wrong. Despite having more Pokémon than Gen I, most of them are locked out until much later, and in the early game, you struggle to build your team. There are only four goddamn 'mons before the first gym, and they all suck. But you have to use one because your starter definitely can't carry you through that gym. Then, while you do get more options after, the supply is still completely anemic until after the third gym.
The lack of exploration. Now, Pokémon has always been linear, but there were still extra areas to explore. Unova has a distinct lack of them, even in the expanded sequels.
My biggest issue with Gen V, however, is that this was when the franchise began making things way too easy. It didn't really hit hard until Gen VI, but it started here. This was the generation where almost no trainer battles had more than three opponents, and the regular trainers rarely had more than one. Even in fucking Victory Road, most trainers you encountered only had two 'mons each. Not only is it completely insulting, but it doesn't even make sense. How did they get this far with such pitiful teams?

Gen VI
Favorite parts:
The fairy type. I fucking love the fairy type. It's the best type, and I practically orgasmed when I found out that Gardevoir was getting it.
Super Training. I absolutely loved that I could train my team's EVs up as soon as I caught them so that I didn't have to bother with that for the actual game. I could send my Gardevoir out to battle fighting types without worrying that she was getting a bunch of useless Attack EVs. I fucking loved it. I just wish that it wasn't so repetitive. They should have had six different minigames, one for each stat. That would have helped a lot.
Pokémon Amie. Ever since the beginning, I've been one of those people who viewed my 'mons more as friends than tools (a side effect of watching the anime before getting into the games), but I was always disappointed that there really weren't any mechanics to facilitate that. Now there were. Plus, I really liked decorating my lower screen and wish that there was more to do with that, like, if which decorations you used had some mechanical effect on the game. I also really liked the three minigames and spent many an hour playing them and trying to beat my high scores. I even got pretty good, I think. They sort of brought this back for Gen VII, but they got rid of the best parts, so it sucks now.
DexNav. Gen VI was just full of amazing, abandoned features, so much so that ORAS almost surpassed BW2 as my favorite game in the series based on them alone. One thing that has always been a problem with this franchise is that catching new team members is a huge pain in the ass, but the DexNav made it much easier. In all the other games, it could easily take me up to six fucking hours or more to finally get catch a 'mon that didn't completely suck, but in ORAS, I don't think it ever took more than one, and even that was still rare. Why did GameFreak drop all of these great features?
Player customization. Welcome to the 21st century, GameFreak. It's about fucking time.
The post game story with Looker. I really enjoyed it, and I wish Pokémon did more things like that.
Least favorite parts:
The (lack of) difficulty. This was when Pokémon became so easy that you can play the game blindfolded, even if you turn off the Exp Share the moment you get it, which I, of course, did. I can only imagine how laughable it would be if you keep it on. I mean, most trainers in the game, even the gym leaders rarely have the full four moves!
Team Flare. Worst. Team. Ever. They look stupid. They act stupid. Their plan is stupid. Their non-headquarters are stupid. Everything about them is fucking stupid.
Mega evolution. I hated it when I first found out about it, and I still hate it. Maybe if it was exclusively available to otherwise underwhelming Pokémon, like Mawile and Sableye, then it would have been okay, but they also gave it to the already overpowered Pokémon that are now just more overpowered. How many nails does one need in one's head to think it's a good idea to give mega evolution to motherfucking Garchomp!? But even if they reserved it for the weaker 'mons, it would have still been a better idea to just give them regular evolutions! Finally, to add insult to injury, mega evolution isn't even a significant feature of the damn game! It's largely hidden away until the post game content like the game is embarrassed by it or something. It feels like it was added solely for the multiplayer aspect, which is ironic because it completely destroyed multiplayer balance. It was a bad idea that was poorly implemented.
Why didn't we get Pokémon Z? I wanted Pokémon Z!

Gen VII
Getting rid of HM moves. I love that the HMs are gone as they were so annoying, especially in Gens III and IV. Though, I'm not a big fan of the ride mechanic, either. I would have preferred if they did something more like what the Ranger games do and just have field moves be an intrinsic part of the 'mons, themselves. So, you can still use them to get past obstacles without wasting precious move slots. Maybe, if they wanted to keep the field moves story locked until certain parts of the game, they could do something like keeping the general HM mechanic, but having field moves be separate from battle moves. So, you still need to teach your 'mon Cut to get past trees, but it doesn't take up a slot on the 'mon's actual moves. I think that would have worked out much better. Then you don't have the hassle of being forced to use shitty moves or an HM slave, but you maintain the feeling that it's just you and your team against the world rather than being able to magically summon Pokémon from nowhere to overcome whatever roadblocks you face.
The island challenge was a new and interesting take on the game, and Pokémon should really be doing more to innovate. Imagine how great the series would be if every single generation had it's own unique set of challenges rather than just repeating the "collect eight badges" shtick over and over.
The starters. I've liked a lot of starters over the years, but these three are definitely my favorites. I love all of them, and that's never happened before. In all previous generations, there was at least one that I simply didn't like, but these three are all great.
The map. I love how all the locations fit together and feel like a real place rather than just lines and dots randomly strewn about. I do really wish the islands were bigger, though.
I absolutely loved Team Skull. Best. Team. Ever. Even the Aether Foundation was good.
The ultra beasts were surprisingly rather okay, much better than I feared. However, they should have been far more important to the story and feel hastily tacked on.
I also really liked the Alolan forms and wished there were far more.
Lillie/Moon OTP!
Least favorite parts:
Too. Many. Cutscenes. I hates that I couldn't just explore the region and had to be stopped every twelve steps for another damn cutscene. I mean, I did enjoy the characters, but it was still intolerable. Just leave me alone for five fucking minutes! I even started to get annoyed by Lillie on repeat playthroughs.
Everything seemed half-assed and incomplete. The dungeons were so small as to be almost non-existent, and all of the trials were shorter than I felt they should have been. They never felt like challenges, and the totems were sorely lacking in the epic department. I also touched on this above, but the ultra beasts and Alolan forms feel like they were mere afterthoughts that were tacked on at the last minute. These could have been the core of the game and story, but, instead, they barely register as significant.
What the hell is up with that golf course on Akala island, and why can I not go to it? It's literally the only part of the game world that is inaccessible, and it bothers me so much. I thought they were saving it for USM, but it's still inaccessible there. What gives?
Festival Plaza. I enjoyed Join Avenue in BW2, and this is clearly a spiritual successor to that. Unfortunately, it sucks hard. In Join Avenue, you could actually intentionally design it how you wanted, picking the facilities you wanted and then upgrading them over time. In Festival Plaza, however, it's all just completely random. Which facilities you get is random, and the rank of those facilities is also random. And, of course, Pokémon RNG is the worst. I have never been able to build a Festival Plaza that actually has the shit I want in it, even after getting up to rank 90 something.
Rotom Dex. Shut. The fuck. Up!

[Hanafuridake]

and Wally may as well not even be there.

It says a lot that I neither wrack my brain to remember who that is nor experience nostalgia at hearing the name. It's just “meh, oh right, he was a thing.” one of the least interesting parts of the Gen III's plot line.

[New haven america]

Gen I
Pros: Most consistent designs overall, laid the ground work for what's to comes, fun glitches to mess around with, good twist at the end, simple yet effective villain team
Cons: Kanto is boring and has remained boring for the past 20 years, tons of game breaking glitches, no running shoes, battles are just 2 opponents slapping each other without any strategy, internal battery problems, shafting all ghost types because all of them had poison typing as well, the anime being the most well known and popular despite being meh at best

Gen II
Pros: The day/night cycle, an entire second region to explore, great final battle, more unique story and characters, interesting overworld puzzles, actual color, shinies, dark and steel types
Cons: Most of the 'Mon designs feel like Gen I rejects (Oh wait, they actually were), still has internal battery issues, Kanto's pretty barren, still no running shoes, the stupid tunnel/cave system in the middle of Johto's map

Gen III
Pros: Hoenn is a much more adventurous region whereas the previous ones really weren't, a lot of terrain and town variety (With a lot of places to explore), great music, weather effects, some of the most experimental designs that I feel really stand out and payed off in the long run, good characters like Norman or Steven, an entire graphical over hall, running shoes, the Battle Frontier, the Battle Frontier anime, good spinoff games
Cons: We still have internal battery issues (But this time at least it doesn't destroy your game), the plot was pretty meh overall, the stupid boulder puzzle near the end of the game that left me and multiple people wasting months trying to figure it out, no day/night cycle, a fanbase that threw an absolute shitstorm at the fact that you couldn't transfer Gen I/II Pokémon into RSE thus hurting Pokémon's popularity and ending Pokemania in the West

Gen IV
Pros: Sinnoh is beautiful, the music is fantastic, Cyrus and Cynthia are both great, the areas that you get to once beating the E4 are pretty fun, physical/special split, the Poketch is really useful, great designs and giving new life to older Pokemon through evolutions, interesting story, the Sinnoh Underground made getting items that were severely limited in the previous 3 Gens easily accessible, both the day/night and weather cycles, HG and SS, companion Pokémon, fantastic spinoffs
Cons: Barry sucks, the pacing can be kinda slow but that's fixed with Platinum, overreliance on Event Items (Oak's Letter, the Inn Key, the Elevator Key, the Azure Flute, and Celebi specifically) and uh.... yeah, that's about it

Gen V
Pros: More great stories and characters, good music (I find that Gens III-V had the best music), lots of places to explore, a massive postgame, interesting designs, moving sprites in battle, lots of experimentation with graphics and online features, the season cycle, asking if you want to reuse items and unlimited TM's
Cons (Keep in mind that most of these apply to BW, as B2W2 fixed most of these): The Extralink, "Interesting" designs, subpar spinoffs at best, the game's too linear, very few things to do post-game, no Vs. Seeker of Trainers eyes (Which made remtches for money and level grinding damn near impossible), still more overrelaince on events (Meloetta, Keldeo, Genesect, and the Liberty Pass specifically), the anime sucks

Gen VI:
Pros: Good graphics for their first attempts at 3D on a handheld, the bottom screen functionality and greater connection, customization, some of the most consistant designs since... I'm gonna say Gen III, making shinies easier than ever to find, sitting, Kalos looks very pretty, the berry growing mechanics, Team Flare's pretty stylish, ORAS, flying into routes and riding Latias/Latios, Pokebank, the anime's great and finally updated to the digital age
Cons: Terrible rivals, too much Gen I pandering, the game's too easy (I beat Y in 12 hours) with shit getting handed to you, Kalos is super closed off, there's almost nothing to do post game, Mega-evolutions fucking with Pokemon's potential to evolve in later games, Team Flare is all bark but no bite, the story's rushed, there's still no Vs. Seeker or Trainer Eyes in XY, limited customization for males, nothing to do post-game in XY, Zygarde having to be put off until SM, Pokebank requiring a subscription, fairy types, still has subpar spinoffs

Gen VII
Pros: 360 controls, good designs, no HM's (Even though I didn't have a problem with them), Team Skull's pretty great, great and yet existentially scary writing, Alolan Forms are pretty cool, the Island Challenges, Lillie and Mallow, Alola's very open (Once you beat the game that is), interesting anime
Cons: Not being able to sit anymore, so much lag (Seriously, you want a quick way to crash your 3DS, have a double battle in this game), interesting anime, more Gen I pandering, so many cutscenes and roadblocks every-fucking-where, complete removal of the PSS/Dexnav in exchange for this stupid plaza area (I told Socrates that I hated that thing), no Triple or Rotation or Horde battles (Cause the game can't physically handle them), no flying into routes, having a super lazy design approach (Designing around people who aren't gonna spent that much time playing cause they're always on the go or working instead of people who want to sit down and play for multiple hours), Hau sucks and I told him I hated him everytime I saw him, still lacking male customization options (I chose to play as a girl in S and boy in UM, the girl had by far the most customization options), still lacking things to do in the post-game, Ultrabeasts being overblown and overdesigned legendaries, taking away all the shiny hunting options present in Gen VI, more messing around with typing effects, still no Vs. Seeker or Trainer's Eyes, Rotomdex never shuts up, and the entirity of SM simply being a bloody beta for USUM and yet they still didn't fix any of the problems present in SM

[New haven america]

and Wally may as well not even be there.

It says a lot that I neither wrack my brain to remember who that is nor experience nostalgia at hearing the name. It's just “meh, oh right, he was a thing.” one of the least interesting parts of the Gen III's plot line.

And if you're extra unlucky then he catches a shiny before you can.

[Olthar]

So, I went out and caught a Pokémon for my team, grinded up its stats with super training, played with it for an hour in Pokémon Amie, and then realized that it had the wrong ability. D:

[Hurdergaryp]

So, I went out and caught a Pokémon for my team, grinded up its stats with super training, played with it for an hour in Pokémon Amie, and then realized that it had the wrong ability. D:

Mistakes were made, but at least you got a bit of fresh air.

[New haven america]

As of Feb. 12th Twitch Play's Pokémon is 5 years old...

[Tiffanybella]

As of Feb. 12th Twitch Play's Pokémon is 5 years old...

congratulations

[Ayytaly]

My biggest complaint with Pokémon is the type chart. Makes no sense for the most part. Shouldn't Fire be strong against Poison?

The best Pokémon in existence is Smeargle. Far more customizable than any other Pokés. Even Mew.

[Hurdergaryp]

[Olthar]

Gen VIII has just been announced: Pokémon Sword and Shield

My thoughts from the trailer:
This looks amazing, and I am so hype.
Still no follow Pokémon? Come on, Gamefreak.
I guess everyone was right about it being the UK. That is definitely Big Ben.
Those starters are super disappointing. I knew it would be tough coming off three of the best starters ever in Gen VII, but that's still worse than I was expecting.

[Pax Nerdvana]

Gen VIII has just been announced: Pokémon Sword and Shield

My thoughts from the trailer:
This looks amazing, and I am so hype.
Still no follow Pokémon? Come on, Gamefreak.
I guess everyone was right about it being the UK. That is definitely Big Ben.
Those starters are super disappointing. I knew it would be tough coming off three of the best starters ever in Gen VII, but that's still worse than I was expecting.

They are. Cool name, but I still want Pokèmon Ketchup and Mustard.

[Olthar]

Gen VIII has just been announced: Pokémon Sword and Shield

My thoughts from the trailer:
This looks amazing, and I am so hype.
Still no follow Pokémon? Come on, Gamefreak.
I guess everyone was right about it being the UK. That is definitely Big Ben.
Those starters are super disappointing. I knew it would be tough coming off three of the best starters ever in Gen VII, but that's still worse than I was expecting.

They are. Cool name, but I still want Pokèmon Ketchup and Mustard.

Never gonna happen. Pokémon's arc colors are red and blue, not red and yellow.

[Pax Nerdvana]

They are. Cool name, but I still want Pokèmon Ketchup and Mustard.

Never gonna happen. Pokémon's arc colors are red and blue, not red and yellow.

Which is somewhat unfortunate.

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

Gen VIII has just been announced: Pokémon Sword and Shield

My thoughts from the trailer:
This looks amazing, and I am so hype.
Still no follow Pokémon? Come on, Gamefreak.
I guess everyone was right about it being the UK. That is definitely Big Ben.
Those starters are super disappointing. I knew it would be tough coming off three of the best starters ever in Gen VII, but that's still worse than I was expecting.

I like the fire bun tho

naming her Judy if she is a female.

[Olthar]

Gen VIII has just been announced: Pokémon Sword and Shield

My thoughts from the trailer:
This looks amazing, and I am so hype.
Still no follow Pokémon? Come on, Gamefreak.
I guess everyone was right about it being the UK. That is definitely Big Ben.
Those starters are super disappointing. I knew it would be tough coming off three of the best starters ever in Gen VII, but that's still worse than I was expecting.

I like the fire bun tho

naming her Judy if she is a female.

Yeah, but the bunny is a soccer player, not a cop.

[Ifreann]

A third Gen VIII game has also been announced.

[Impaled Nazarene]

Why did it have to be England? The most overdone place across all media. At least drop a surprise and put it in the Former Soviet Union.

[Pax Nerdvana]

Why did it have to be England? The most overdone place across all media. At least drop a surprise and put it in the Former Soviet Union.

Germany would be nice too.

[Olthar]

Why did it have to be England? The most overdone place across all media. At least drop a surprise and put it in the Former Soviet Union.

Japan has a longstanding fascination with the West, but mostly America, France, and Britain (Hello Kitty is, in canon, a British schoolgirl). We got the first two, so it's only appropriate that we get this one now.

[Andsed]

So I am super excited for gen 8 the new trailers look great but I am a little sad they are no longer doing pokemon games for the 3DS.

[Olthar]

So I am super excited for gen 8 the new trailers look great but I am a little sad they are no longer doing pokemon games for the 3DS.

Why? You should have expected it. No system has had more than two generations of Pokémon. Plus, the 3DS could barely handle the games as is. There was frequent slow downs, especially for triple battles and horde encounters. Why keep using hardware that can't adequately render the game?

[Andsed]

So I am super excited for gen 8 the new trailers look great but I am a little sad they are no longer doing pokemon games for the 3DS.

Why? You should have expected it. No system has had more than two generations of Pokémon. Plus, the 3DS could barely handle the games as is. There was frequent slow downs, especially for triple battles and horde encounters. Why keep using hardware that can't adequately render the game?

I am sad because of nostalgia more than anything. I grew up with the game boy, DS, and 3DS and I had a lot of fun with them. I always enjoyed than they could fit in my pocket and I loved playing Pokémon on them. I like the switch and understand why they made the switch I am just a little sad to know they won’t continue making Pokémon for the 3DS.

[Digital Planets]

Me, excited for the new Pokemon game:
Also me, sad that there are no Zubats: I WANT TO FIGHT SOME DRUNK ZUBATS LIKE THEY'RE THOSE GODDAMNED IRISH

They're probably the reason I get shot at when I go to Londonderry