US Government Shutdown- It's Over!... For Now

[Frievolk]

Here's the thing - Dems don't want any walls, anymore. If they cave, a part of their base will be pissed off, and not vote for them. On the other hand, if there's no wall, Trump will be viewed as caving, thus losing a part of his base. This isn't about Republican Border Security, or Democrats caring about the poor little immigrant Jose, whom they are very happy for their donors to exploit with below minimum wage job offers. It's about the Presidential Election in 2020, which is why I think it'd be hilarious if Trump steps down and Pence runs. CNN/MSNBC will set a World Record in the switch from "muh Mueller Probe!" to "muh Gay Rights!"

So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

The problem is that the Democrats shouldn't be compromising in the first place. Trump shouldn't even think about "I'll shut down the government. Surely they'll cave in.". The only rational response is "keep it shut down until you die lmao. You're not getting a penny for that wall.". Democrats have been caving for too long, and this is what they've ended up into.

On the other hand, even outside of stoic polity, their voter base would be very disappointed with them should they cave in, and we already know more people blame the government for the current situation than they do the congress, so keeping it shut down -while they can blame Trump for whatever the consequences- is only beneficial to them in the short -and long- run,

[Galloism]

Whereas Republicans and Democrats would never gut due process by passing the PATRIOT Act with record speed... Look, the Government is still shut down. Neither side is likely to cave. Workers are going to get pissed off if it stays shut down into March. This'll also cause the DEA to be even more assholish, as their salaries will start to depend on seized loot.

Sounds like we need our own Red October but in March.

[Olthar]

Here's the thing - Dems don't want any walls, anymore. If they cave, a part of their base will be pissed off, and not vote for them. On the other hand, if there's no wall, Trump will be viewed as caving, thus losing a part of his base. This isn't about Republican Border Security, or Democrats caring about the poor little immigrant Jose, whom they are very happy for their donors to exploit with below minimum wage job offers. It's about the Presidential Election in 2020, which is why I think it'd be hilarious if Trump steps down and Pence runs. CNN/MSNBC will set a World Record in the switch from "muh Mueller Probe!" to "muh Gay Rights!"

So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

So, instead of doing their jobs, you want our government to spend all our money on pointless bullshit vanity projects? That sounds even worse than what we already have. Or rather, it sounds like exactly what we already have but with the added joy of them no longer caring enough to lie to us about how it'll help or whatever. It would be another step on the road to pre-Revolution France where the government is so out of touch with reality and its head shoved so far up its own ass that it no longer recognizes the people as human beings.

[Thermodolia]

So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

So, instead of doing their jobs, you want our government to spend all our money on pointless bullshit vanity projects? That sounds even worse than what we already have. Or rather, it sounds like exactly what we already have but with the added joy of them no longer caring enough to lie to us about how it'll help or whatever. It would be another step on the road to pre-Revolution France where the government is so out of touch with reality and its head shoved so far up its own ass that it no longer recognizes the people as human beings.

As probably the most revolutionary person in the room I see no problem with this

[Olthar]

Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no

Cocaine should be legalized and regulated?

So, instead of wasting money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits, we waste money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits that has better PR. The War on Drugs doesn't work.

I somehow doubt that busting El Chapo was a waste of money. The overall strategy of the War on Drugs is poorly thought out. Employing key tactics to stop cocaine at border crossings tends to work.

Then why has cocaine use (as well as other illegal drugs) only gone up since the War started and continues to rise every year? Busting the users, the dealers, the distributors, and even the growers does absolutely nothing because they'll all be replaced almost immediately. The War on Drugs is a complete and total waste of time and money.

[Shofercia]

So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

Unlike you the democrat base doesn’t want the democrats to be sell outs

Thermy, IM is not loyal to Democrats or Republicans, so he cannot sell out the parties that he's not a member of, and plays no role in.

Here's the thing - Dems don't want any walls, anymore. If they cave, a part of their base will be pissed off, and not vote for them. On the other hand, if there's no wall, Trump will be viewed as caving, thus losing a part of his base. This isn't about Republican Border Security, or Democrats caring about the poor little immigrant Jose, whom they are very happy for their donors to exploit with below minimum wage job offers. It's about the Presidential Election in 2020, which is why I think it'd be hilarious if Trump steps down and Pence runs. CNN/MSNBC will set a World Record in the switch from "muh Mueller Probe!" to "muh Gay Rights!"

So why not give Trump his wall but get some other federal/National publicized left wing project that will offset (or theoretically offset) the political points docked?

Surely the Democrats want SOMETHING flashy and national that could be worth a few additional billions ?

They got it - funding of Planned Parenthood. They have nothing that would be as powerful as the wall. Also, there are a lot of Democrat donors that are anti-wall. The reason that the US didn't get stuck in the Syrian Civil War, was because the voters on both sides called their politicians, and said "don't you fucking dare!" Regarding Planned Parenthood, the Republican Base was ok with doubling the funds that PP spends on all other services, except abortion, and doing it through other companies, that would have to be approved by Democrats. It's voter and donor emotion, rather than actual policy making.

Take a look at the first line of this quite amazing parody: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wGO2fz1KlSc

"Alright everybody you know the drill, we all know how we're voting, but let's get those soundbites for our donor emails"

[Ifreann]

What if the Democrats gave Trump his 5 billion for the wall, but in exchange ask for an additional 2-3 billion on a choice project of theirs?

Or does the US not have enough billions?

They tried to compromise, and Trump agreed. Until he was criticised on TV by some of his favourite right wing commentators. They he changed his mind started demanding even more money. So why would the Democrats try to compromise again? Trump will only agree until he watches Fox that evening or goes on Twitter.

[Olthar]

So, instead of doing their jobs, you want our government to spend all our money on pointless bullshit vanity projects? That sounds even worse than what we already have. Or rather, it sounds like exactly what we already have but with the added joy of them no longer caring enough to lie to us about how it'll help or whatever. It would be another step on the road to pre-Revolution France where the government is so out of touch with reality and its head shoved so far up its own ass that it no longer recognizes the people as human beings.

As probably the most revolutionary person in the room I see no problem with this

The problem is that I don't see a revolution ever actually happening. The people have simply become way too apathetic and lazy. They no longer care about what the government does short of pointless bitching. If the government allowed business owners to put fucking shock collars on all employees, there'd be a media outcry but then nothing would actually happen, and we'd all begrudgingly grow to deal with it.

[Shofercia]

Cocaine should be legalized and regulated?




I somehow doubt that busting El Chapo was a waste of money. The overall strategy of the War on Drugs is poorly thought out. Employing key tactics to stop cocaine at border crossings tends to work.

Then why has cocaine use (as well as other illegal drugs) only gone up since the War started and continues to rise every year? Busting the users, the dealers, the distributors, and even the growers does absolutely nothing because they'll all be replaced almost immediately. The War on Drugs is a complete and total waste of time and money.

Offering cure programs to the users, deporting the dealers, jailing the distributors, burning the crops of the growers, is going to have at least some effect on drug use. The problem is that there aren't a lot of resources placed in sane anti-drug education, nor are there ways, for most users/distributors/dealers/growers to exit the system. The overall strategy needs to change. The tactic of efficient border patrolling, helps reduce the supply, which drives up the price and reduces demand.

https://drugabuse.com/cocaine/history-statistics/

Overall use of cocaine in the US peaked during the crack epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s but over the last 10 years has since declined; however, cocaine remains the 2nd most popular illicit recreational drug in this country behind cannabis. Some important statistics about cocaine abuse include:

According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health (NSDUH) in 2012, nearly 4.7 million Americans aged 12 or older reported using cocaine in the past year, and almost 38 million reported ever using cocaine in their lifetime.

The NSDUH also revealed that lifetime use of either powdered cocaine or crack was significantly higher among Whites (16.9%) than either Blacks (9.7%) or Hispanics (11.6%).

The Monitoring the Future survey of drug use in adolescents found the rate of cocaine use among high schools seniors has fallen over the last 15 years and stood at 2.6% in 2014, the lowest percentage since the survey began in 1975.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no

Cocaine should be legalized and regulated?

So, instead of wasting money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits, we waste money on a do nothing vanity project with no positive benefits that has better PR. The War on Drugs doesn't work.

I somehow doubt that busting El Chapo was a waste of money. The overall strategy of the War on Drugs is poorly thought out. Employing key tactics to stop cocaine at border crossings tends to work.

Yes it should...

[Salandriagado]

There is a crisis on the Southern border, but it's about drugs, not immigrants. So why don't we just give Trump's $5 billion border wall funding to the DEA and the Border Patrol, tell them "here's five billion, cut down the drug trade" and see how they want to spend it?

That would require Trump having a thought.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

There is a crisis on the Southern border, but it's about drugs, not immigrants. So why don't we just give Trump's $5 billion border wall funding to the DEA and the Border Patrol, tell them "here's five billion, cut down the drug trade" and see how they want to spend it?

That would require Trump having a thought.

He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.

[Salandriagado]

That would require Trump having a thought.

He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.

No he hasn't. I see no evidence that he's ever had a thought that wasn't fed to him.

[Greater vakolicci haven]

He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.

No he hasn't. I see no evidence that he's ever had a thought that wasn't fed to him.

Who thought up 'build the wall?'

[The Black Forrest]

That would require Trump having a thought.

He's had many. Sadly you don't like them.

Really? Can you name a few that don't follow the republican play book?

[MGTOWia]

Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.

[Salandriagado]

No he hasn't. I see no evidence that he's ever had a thought that wasn't fed to him.

Who thought up 'build the wall?'

Fox News.

[Ifreann]

Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.

Congress can revoke a declaration of a national emergency.

[Thermodolia]

Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.

Pulling a National Emergency is the dumbest thing Trump could do as it would only piss off the military, where the $6 Billion funds would come from, or piss off the people in Florida and Texas effected by the hurricanes, where the $6 Billion can also come from.

Oh and the thing auto sunsets after a year with no Congressional consent. And congress has to vote on it to approve its continuation 6 months after the order has been given.

[Vassenor]

Now that the bad faith of Pelosi/Schumer has been exposed for all to see, and likewise their real agenda of importing future Democrat voters rather than representing American citizens, I hope President Trump finally declares a national emergency, as provided for by the 1976 National Emergencies Act. He can then act to secure the border whether P/S like it or not. And if they try to tie things up via their usual forum-shopping for judges who share their agenda, they will ultimately lose, and sooner rather than later.

Would these be the American citizens who don't actually want Trump's wall, as we have established on multiple occasions?

[The Derpy Democratic Republic Of Herp]

I'd be ok with that.

Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no

Legalize meth and cocaine?

No.

[Valrifell]

Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no

Legalize meth and cocaine?

No.

But also: let people use their bodies as they want and give addicts an out instead of punishing them.

[Kowani]

Well, I mean...they should all be legalised and regulated anyway so no

Legalize meth and cocaine?

No.

What happened to bodily autonomy?
Oh wait, drugs are icky.

[The Traansval]

Governments been shut down for more than fifteen days so we're legally allowed to seceed from the Union

[Northern Davincia]

Governments been shut down for more than fifteen days so we're legally allowed to seceed from the Union

I dislike the govenrment passionately but seceding from the union ain't an option.
We're sticking by this 'til the end.