NATION

PASSWORD

[PASSED] International Criminal Protocol

A carefully preserved record of the most notable World Assembly debates.

Advertisement

Remove ads

User avatar
Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5235
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:24 pm

Kenmoria wrote:“I see a problem in the second and third prohibitory clauses. Namely, you don’t exclude ‘protective Custody’ from the definition of ‘solitary confinement’, so they contradict each other.”


"I must apologize, I rather fail to understand this reading, what, again, is the contradiction?"
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, He/Him
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, He/Him
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, She/Her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:27 pm

The use of capital punishment for any crime that did not result in unlawful death, cruel or unusual treatment such as torture or rape, or an exceptional betrayal of national security,


"This wording is not tolerable. We preferred Sierra Lyricalia's:

"...that capital punishment never be administered for any offense not defined as a war crime, crime against humanity, or 'affront to civilization' by World Assembly legislation..."

User avatar
Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5235
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:28 pm

United Massachusetts wrote:
The use of capital punishment for any crime that did not result in unlawful death, cruel or unusual treatment such as torture or rape, or an exceptional betrayal of national security,


"This wording is not tolerable. We preferred Sierra Lyricalia's:

"...that capital punishment never be administered for any offense not defined as a war crime, crime against humanity, or 'affront to civilization' by World Assembly legislation..."


"Does your government have reasons to prefer the protection of child molesters, Ambassador?"
Last edited by Tinfect on Tue Jan 08, 2019 4:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, He/Him
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, He/Him
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, She/Her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
United Massachusetts
Minister
 
Posts: 2574
Founded: Jan 17, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby United Massachusetts » Tue Jan 08, 2019 6:46 pm

Tinfect wrote:
United Massachusetts wrote:
"This wording is not tolerable. We preferred Sierra Lyricalia's:

"...that capital punishment never be administered for any offense not defined as a war crime, crime against humanity, or 'affront to civilization' by World Assembly legislation..."


"Does your government have reasons to prefer the protection of child molesters, Ambassador?"

"Life in prison is protection now? Interesting development."

User avatar
Kenmoria
GA Secretariat
 
Posts: 7910
Founded: Jul 03, 2017
Scandinavian Liberal Paradise

Postby Kenmoria » Wed Jan 09, 2019 12:28 am

Tinfect wrote:
Kenmoria wrote:“I see a problem in the second and third prohibitory clauses. Namely, you don’t exclude ‘protective Custody’ from the definition of ‘solitary confinement’, so they contradict each other.”


"I must apologize, I rather fail to understand this reading, what, again, is the contradiction?"
“When you define ‘solitary confinement’, you don’t exclude from it the definition of ‘protective custody’. Thus making protective custody a subset of solitary confinement. The prohibition in clause 1 clearly bans all forms of solitary confinement, logically including that which the WA has deemed protective, whereas the prohibition in causes 3 allows one form of solitary confinement - that which is of a protective nature - with informed consent. This seems to me to be internal contradiction.”

(OOC: Did that make sense? I recognise that was quite a meandering paragraph and, to avoid taking up the thread, I’ll TG you if there’s still confusion.)
Hello! I’m a GAer and NS Roleplayer from the United Kingdom.
My pronouns are he/him.
Any posts that I make as GenSec will be clearly marked as such and OOC. Conversely, my IC ambassador in the General Assembly is Ambassador Fortier. I’m always happy to discuss ideas about proposals, particularly if grammar or wording are in issue. I am also Executive Deputy Minister for the WA Ministry of TNP.
Kenmoria is an illiberal yet democratic nation pursuing the goals of communism in a semi-effective fashion. It has a very broad diplomatic presence despite being economically developing, mainly to seek help in recovering from the effect of a recent civil war. Read the factbook here for more information; perhaps, I will eventually finish it.

User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Wed Jan 09, 2019 10:20 am

United Massachusetts wrote:
Tinfect wrote:"Does your government have reasons to prefer the protection of child molesters, Ambassador?"

"Life in prison is protection now? Interesting development."

The Araraukarian seat is currently occupied by a young woman, who might as well have "intern" tattooed on her forehead. "For anyone that the general public would want dead, yes, prison is a protective environment. You being one of the people wanting to ban death penalty should be aware of how such a ban will not appease many people''s sense of justice, when it comes to extremely heinous crimes, such as kidnapping, raping and murdering a child. You being one of the people wanting to ban the lawful execution of such criminals means that you must want to protect them, even from lawful government actions."
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
Nateboussad
Political Columnist
 
Posts: 2
Founded: Jan 11, 2019
Ex-Nation

Postby Nateboussad » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:13 am

The general concept of judicial or prosecutorial independence is often cited as a justification to minimize the need for oversight of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or “Court”).1 However, keeping an international court accountable is necessary in order to maximize the performance, productivity, and efficiency of the court. To achieve this objective, effective oversight of an international body such as the ICC requires the performance of four primary functions: 1) financial and budgetary supervision, 2) administrative management, 3) oversight of misconduct of elected officials, staff members, and contractors, and 4) recommendations to the Assembly of States Parties (“ASP”) for improvements to the Court. This paper will lay out the need for each of these functions for the ICC and then discuss whether and to what extent the Independent Oversight Mechanism (“IOM”) established by the ASP is needed to facilitate and perform these functions.




Tutuapp 9apps Showbox
Last edited by Nateboussad on Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:45 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Sierra Lyricalia
Senator
 
Posts: 4343
Founded: Nov 29, 2008
Left-wing Utopia

Postby Sierra Lyricalia » Fri Jan 11, 2019 11:27 am

Nateboussad wrote:The general concept of judicial or prosecutorial independence is often cited as a justification to minimize the need for oversight of the International Criminal Court (“ICC” or “Court”).1 However, keeping an international court accountable is necessary in order to maximize the performance, productivity, and efficiency of the court. To achieve this objective, effective oversight of an international body such as the ICC requires the performance of four primary functions: 1) financial and budgetary supervision, 2) administrative management, 3) oversight of misconduct of elected officials, staff members, and contractors, and 4) recommendations to the Assembly of States Parties (“ASP”) for improvements to the Court. This paper will lay out the need for each of these functions for the ICC and then discuss whether and to what extent the Independent Oversight Mechanism (“IOM”) established by the ASP is needed to facilitate and perform these functions.


OOC: Welcome to the World Assembly! One of the underlying assumptions of the game is that WA committees are overseen sufficiently by the World Assembly itself that these concerns are moot - otherwise every author would have to spend valuable real estate out of the constant and rigid 5,000 character limit trying to police misconduct, which would quickly become tiresome. It can be safely assumed that members of the Court who do not adequately fulfill their obligations, in whatever way, will be quickly drummed out of their positions, and compensation rendered if necessary, without having to articulate it in the creating resolution.
Principal-Agent, Anarchy; Squadron Admiral [fmr], The Red Fleet
The Semi-Honorable Leonid Berkman Pavonis
Author: 354 GA / Issues 436, 451, 724
Ambassador Pro Tem
Tech Level: Complicated (or not: 7/0/6 i.e. 12) / RP Details
.
Jerk, Ideological Deviant, Roach, MT Army stooge, & "red [who] do[es]n't read" (various)
.
Illustrious Bum #279


User avatar
Bears Armed
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 21475
Founded: Jun 01, 2006
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby Bears Armed » Sat Jan 12, 2019 8:16 am

Sierra Lyricalia wrote:OOC: Welcome to the World Assembly! One of the underlying assumptions of the game is that WA committees are overseen sufficiently by the World Assembly itself that these concerns are moot - otherwise every author would have to spend valuable real estate out of the constant and rigid 5,000 character limit trying to police misconduct, which would quickly become tiresome.

OOC
Especially as they would have to do so without using any previous resolution's author's wording on the matter, unless they could obtain that earlier author's consent, due to the way that the rule against Plagiarism works here...
The Confrederated Clans (and other Confrederated Bodys) of the Free Bears of Bears Armed
(includes The Ursine NorthLands) Demonym = Bear[s]; adjective = ‘Urrsish’.
Population = just under 20 million. Economy = only Thriving. Average Life expectancy = c.60 years. If the nation is classified as 'Anarchy' there still is a [strictly limited] national government... and those aren't "biker gangs", they're traditional cross-Clan 'Warrior Societies', generally respected rather than feared.
Author of some GA Resolutions, via Bears Armed Mission; subject of an SC resolution.
Factbook. We have more than 70 MAPS. Visitors' Guide.
The IDU's WA Drafting Room is open to help you.
Author of issues #429, 712, 729, 934, 1120, 1152, 1474, 1521.

User avatar
Blueflarst
Chargé d'Affaires
 
Posts: 444
Founded: Aug 25, 2016
Ex-Nation

Postby Blueflarst » Mon Jan 14, 2019 4:09 am

Tinfect wrote:
International Criminal Protocol

Category: Civil Rights || Strength: Strong


Origin: Imperium of Tinfect,
Author: Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy

Imperial Division of Foreign Policy and Diplomatic Action
Counsel: Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative

Counsel: Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative



The World Assembly,

Annoyed by the insistence regarding passing yet another pointless non-compromise that will merely facilitate legal abuses and result in infinitely worse legislation being passed,

Acknowledging prior attempts to ensure that the criminal justice systems of Member-States operate in a just and ethical manner,

Dismayed by their failure to adequately provide protections from legal abuse and to provide closure and restitution to victims,

Seeking to immediately prevent any further abuses of criminal justice systems,

Hereby;

Defines:
  1. Capital punishment as the execution of a criminal convicted of a crime as sentence for said crime,
  2. Solitary confinement as the complete or severe isolation of prisoners from contact with other inmates and/or prison staff,
  3. Protective confinement as the severe isolation of prisoners from contact with other inmates due to clear and present danger(s) to their life in the general prison population,
  4. Inhumane conditions as the refusal or withholding of necessary and healthy sustenance, medically or mentally necessary healthcare, severely confined or crowded conditions, or conditions inferior to those mandated for prisoners of war,

Prohibits:
  1. In all cases, the practice of solitary confinement,
  2. The holding of any prisoners in inhumane conditions,
  3. The holding of any prisoner in protective confinement without the informed consent of the prisoner,
  4. The use of capital punishment for any crime that did not result in unlawful death, cruel or unusual treatment such as torture or rape, or an exceptional betrayal of national security,

Mandates:
  1. That Member-States provide to prisoners accessible legal recourse for the investigation of any undue violence or abuse by prison staff,
  2. That Member-States provide to prisoners accessible legal counsel and support for any prisoner sentenced to Capital Punishment, including access to appeals and stays of execution,
  3. The use of the highest reasonable standards of evidence be used when considering the use of capital punishment,
  4. That all executions be held at a reasonable date past sentencing, to be no shorter than a period of thirty days, alongside any processing time for legal requests or inquiries,
  5. That protective solitary confinement be be utilized only when there exists a clear and present danger to holding the prisoner within the general prison area,
  6. That prisoners subject to protective confinement be allowed regular contact with psychiatric staff and access to visitation as regularly allowed to prisoners,
  7. That, once a prisoner has been subjected to protective confinement, all practical measures must be taken to allow their safe return to general prison populations as soon as possible,


"Yes, yes, the Imperium is well-aware that Preventing the Execution of Innocents still stands; consider this a... gesture of good faith."

OOC:
Let's not pretend this is anything else but a replacement for Preventing the Execution of Innocents. My repeal for said resolution may be found here. I'm out of practice at this, so if it's an abomination... just, like, tell me why.

I do have a request though; if anyone can think of a way to prevent executions for minor crimes, that'd be great, because the only idea I've got is to explicitly restrict Execution to a handful of crimes, and, quite frankly, I do not believe that I could write that list alone. So, if you have a better way, or, a list, that'd great.

1. Added a limited exception for protective confinement, and various requirements regarding it.
2. Added Sierra Lyricalia's first suggestion, and substantially cleaned up the draft.

The guilty assasins sexual attackers and serial killers will not have right and your proposition is unfair and not moral, the proven guilty of murderingor serial killing should not have any rights, they should be kept of in solitary confinement the rest of his life with fair cruelty. A person which kills an innocent without a reason or for pleasure should not have any right death is to much good for them they deserve solitary confinement and suffer all the damage they caused
Economic position -0,10
Social position 3
[_★_]_[' ]_
( -_-) (-_Q) If you understand that both Capitalism and Socialism have ideas that deserve merit, put this in your signature.
Card
Blueflarst seek the physical, psychical and spiritual evolution.
“The care of nature and the environment is of ultimate importance. We cannot prosper we cannot even survive without a healthy, viable ecosystem to support us.”
“Violence is not an unnatural thing. It is the normal state of being.”
“Our game is a long game. We do not plan for the next year, or the next ten years, or the next budget cycle. We plan for eternity.”
"Knights are noble warriors that fight for right, not for personal gain. "
I am a spirit have a soul and own a body

User avatar
Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5235
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Tue Jan 15, 2019 10:57 am

OOC:
Right, moving on from that incoherent rant, let's get back to work, people.
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, He/Him
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, He/Him
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, She/Her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Falcania
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1049
Founded: Sep 25, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Falcania » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:05 am

Is there a specific reason that capital punishment is considered more humane than solitary confinement?
II & Sports: The Free Kingdom of Falcania, Jayla, New Nestia, and Realms Otherwise Beneath the Skies

World Assembly: Ser Jeine Wilhelmsen on behalf of Queen Falcon IV, representing the Free Kingdom and the ancient and great region of Atlantian Oceania

User avatar
The Black Party
Minister
 
Posts: 2558
Founded: Oct 31, 2017
Ex-Nation

Postby The Black Party » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:07 am

hippity hoppity abolish sovereignty
Last edited by The Black Party on Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Don't talk to Moderators.
Don't associate with Moderators.
Don't trust Moderators.
Moderators Lie.
"Revolt Against the Mod World"

User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:11 am

IC: The young woman with the air of an intern about her, speaks up, reading from a barely legible handwritten note: "We cannot endorse the proposal as long as the ridiculous requirement of needing consent from a prisoner to place them under protective confinement. If a prisoner whom the vast majority of prison population wants dead, wishes to commit suicide, they should not be allowed to make another inmate into a murderer, but should seek euthanasia via legal channels. The Grand Nation of Araraukar does not withhold euthanasia from prisoners, but cannot allow someone's personal morals, while not allowing suicide, to encourage another person to unlawfully kill them. Further, the complete ban on solitary confinement unfairly restricts punitive measures, or the ability to put an unruly prisoner into "cooldown", before letting them back among the other inmates." She then checks the backside of the note and adds, "Oh and the second mandate of being required to let prisoners keep appealing the death sentence seems to allow that process to continue ad infinitum, which is just stupid. Also, why multiple appeals and stays?"

OOC: Point being, "suicide by fellow inmate" shouldn't be allowed just because someone's morals or personal opinions are opposed to legal and painless euthanasia.

Falcania wrote:Is there a specific reason that capital punishment is considered more humane than solitary confinement?

OOC: Most nations can be expected to have a population of social species, like humans. Complete isolation - the way it's defined in the proposal - from others is mental torture to most individuals of social species. Capital punishment ends any capacity for an individual to suffer afterwards.
Last edited by Araraukar on Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
Nintendo Switch Parental Controls
Lobbyist
 
Posts: 19
Founded: Feb 02, 2018
Ex-Nation

Postby Nintendo Switch Parental Controls » Wed Jan 16, 2019 8:03 am

Heads of WA member nations should be able to have the freedom of criminal protocol.

User avatar
Falcania
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1049
Founded: Sep 25, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Falcania » Wed Jan 16, 2019 10:58 am

Araraukar wrote:
Falcania wrote:Is there a specific reason that capital punishment is considered more humane than solitary confinement?

OOC: Most nations can be expected to have a population of social species, like humans. Complete isolation - the way it's defined in the proposal - from others is mental torture to most individuals of social species. Capital punishment ends any capacity for an individual to suffer afterwards.


OOC: I know that in real life, obviously, I just want to have an argument on the point in character
II & Sports: The Free Kingdom of Falcania, Jayla, New Nestia, and Realms Otherwise Beneath the Skies

World Assembly: Ser Jeine Wilhelmsen on behalf of Queen Falcon IV, representing the Free Kingdom and the ancient and great region of Atlantian Oceania

User avatar
Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5235
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:12 pm

Falcania wrote:OOC: I know that in real life, obviously, I just want to have an argument on the point in character


OOC:
You know what, that's fair. Sorry for the delay.
IC:
Falcania wrote:Is there a specific reason that capital punishment is considered more humane than solitary confinement?


"It comes down to a simple question, Ambassador, is it more human to simply end a life quickly and painlessly, or to engage in horrific torture that serves merely to extend suffering?"
Last edited by Tinfect on Fri Jan 18, 2019 9:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, He/Him
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, He/Him
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, She/Her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Falcania
Ambassador
 
Posts: 1049
Founded: Sep 25, 2004
Anarchy

Postby Falcania » Fri Jan 18, 2019 2:54 pm

Tinfect wrote:
Falcania wrote:
OOC:
You know what, that's fair. Sorry for the delay.
IC:


"It comes down to a simple question, Ambassador, is it more human to simply end a life quickly and painlessly, or to engage in horrific torture that serves merely to extend suffering?"


Is it more just to condemn someone to irreversible oblivion, or a temporary unpleasantness?
II & Sports: The Free Kingdom of Falcania, Jayla, New Nestia, and Realms Otherwise Beneath the Skies

World Assembly: Ser Jeine Wilhelmsen on behalf of Queen Falcon IV, representing the Free Kingdom and the ancient and great region of Atlantian Oceania

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22870
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:13 am

Falcania wrote:
Tinfect wrote:
"It comes down to a simple question, Ambassador, is it more human to simply end a life quickly and painlessly, or to engage in horrific torture that serves merely to extend suffering?"


Is it more just to condemn someone to irreversible oblivion, or a temporary unpleasantness?

Solitary confinement is more than just "temporary unpleasantness". It is demonstrably a form of torture, and has been shown to drive inmates into psychosis.
While she had no regrets about throwing the lever to douse her husband's mistress in molten gold, Blanche did feel a pang of conscience for the innocent bystanders whose proximity had caused them to suffer gilt by association.

King of Snark, Real Piece of Work, Metabolizer of Oxygen, Old Man from The East Pacific, by the Malevolence of Her Infinite Terribleness Catherine Gratwick the Sole and True Claimant to the Bears Armed Vacancy, Protector of the Realm

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22870
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:16 am

Tinfect wrote:Acknowledging prior attempts to ensure that the criminal justice systems of Member-States operate in a just and ethical manner,

....

  1. That Member-States provide to prisoners accessible legal recourse for the investigation of any undue violence or abuse by prison staff,
  2. That Member-States provide to prisoners accessible legal counsel and support for any prisoner sentenced to Capital Punishment, including access to appeals and stays of execution,

"Member-States" should be "member states" and "Capital Punishment" should be "capital punishment".
While she had no regrets about throwing the lever to douse her husband's mistress in molten gold, Blanche did feel a pang of conscience for the innocent bystanders whose proximity had caused them to suffer gilt by association.

King of Snark, Real Piece of Work, Metabolizer of Oxygen, Old Man from The East Pacific, by the Malevolence of Her Infinite Terribleness Catherine Gratwick the Sole and True Claimant to the Bears Armed Vacancy, Protector of the Realm

User avatar
Greater vakolicci haven
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 18661
Founded: May 09, 2014
Ex-Nation

Postby Greater vakolicci haven » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:21 am

"One possibility that has not been considered, is to do what we do in the Haven and end the practise of imprisonment."
Join the rejected realms and never fear rejection again
NSG virtual happy hour this Saturday: join us on zoom, what could possibly go wrong?
“I predict future happiness for Americans, if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them.” - Thomas Jefferson
“Silent acquiescence in the face of tyranny is no better than outright agreement." - C.J. Redwine
“The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." - Jeff Cooper

User avatar
Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5235
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Sat Jan 19, 2019 10:39 am

Greater vakolicci haven wrote:"One possibility that has not been considered, is to do what we do in the Haven and end the practise of imprisonment."


"Ambassador, I fear for the safety of your citizens."
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, He/Him
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, He/Him
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, She/Her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Araraukar
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 15899
Founded: May 14, 2007
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Araraukar » Sat Jan 19, 2019 12:04 pm

Wallenburg wrote:Solitary confinement is more than just "temporary unpleasantness". It is demonstrably a form of torture, and has been shown to drive inmates into psychosis.

OOC: Not when you're put in time-out to calm down. Spending a couple of hours alone won't drive sane people into psychosis. If they're psychotic to begin with, they likely should be alone in a room.

That (and a horror movie I saw today) reminds me that how would this proposal apply to "mental hospital for criminally insane" or whatever the non-horror movie wording is? The truly dangerous, violent and psychotic people who can't be persuaded to take their medication or who can't be sedated for one reason or another (allergies and other physical health issues are a thing even among psychopath serial killers), can they be kept in single rooms (obviously regularly checked on by staff), or do you have to let them be a danger to everyone around them?

Isolation isn't fun, but sometimes it's the only solution. Banning it entirely can't be done without providing working alternatives. Unfortunately in many cases the alternatives (medicating people without their consent/using physical restraints/etc.) are even more problematic.
- ambassador miss Janis Leveret
Araraukar's RP reality is Modern Tech solarpunk. In IC in the WA.
Giovenith wrote:And sorry hun, if you were looking for a forum site where nobody argued, you've come to wrong one.
Apologies for absences, non-COVID health issues leave me with very little energy at times.

User avatar
Tinfect
Negotiator
 
Posts: 5235
Founded: Jul 04, 2014
Democratic Socialists

Postby Tinfect » Sat Jan 19, 2019 1:40 pm

Araraukar wrote:That (and a horror movie I saw today) reminds me that how would this proposal apply to "mental hospital for criminally insane" or whatever the non-horror movie wording is? The truly dangerous, violent and psychotic people who can't be persuaded to take their medication or who can't be sedated for one reason or another (allergies and other physical health issues are a thing even among psychopath serial killers), can they be kept in single rooms (obviously regularly checked on by staff), or do you have to let them be a danger to everyone around them?


OOC:
This is a good point, admittedly. Should be able to do some fiddling with definitions to put that back on the table.
Raslin Seretis, Imperial Diplomatic Envoy, He/Him
Tolarn Feren, Civil Oversight Representative, He/Him
Jasot Rehlan, Military Oversight Representative, She/Her


Bisexual, Transgender (She/Her), Native-American, and Actual CommunistTM.

Imperium Central News Network: EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL CITIZENS ARE TO PROCEED TO EVACUATION SITES IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: ALL FURTHER SUBSPACE SIGNALS AND SYSTEMS ARE TO BE DISABLED IMMEDIATELY | EMERGENCY ALERT: THE FOLLOWING SYSTEMS ARE ACCESS PROHIBITED BY STANDARD/BLACKOUT [Error: Format Unrecognized] | Indomitable Bastard #283
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Wallenburg
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 22870
Founded: Jan 30, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Wallenburg » Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm

Araraukar wrote:
Wallenburg wrote:Solitary confinement is more than just "temporary unpleasantness". It is demonstrably a form of torture, and has been shown to drive inmates into psychosis.

OOC: Not when you're put in time-out to calm down. Spending a couple of hours alone won't drive sane people into psychosis.

No, it absolutely is torture, regardless of the reason you say you are doing it.
If they're psychotic to begin with, they likely should be alone in a room.

We should treat mentally ill people by locking them up and throwing away the key? Really?
Isolation isn't fun, but sometimes it's the only solution. Banning it entirely can't be done without providing working alternatives. Unfortunately in many cases the alternatives (medicating people without their consent/using physical restraints/etc.) are even more problematic.

Name me one circumstance in which total isolation for an extended period of time is necessary to contain an inmate.
Last edited by Wallenburg on Sat Jan 19, 2019 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
While she had no regrets about throwing the lever to douse her husband's mistress in molten gold, Blanche did feel a pang of conscience for the innocent bystanders whose proximity had caused them to suffer gilt by association.

King of Snark, Real Piece of Work, Metabolizer of Oxygen, Old Man from The East Pacific, by the Malevolence of Her Infinite Terribleness Catherine Gratwick the Sole and True Claimant to the Bears Armed Vacancy, Protector of the Realm

PreviousNext

Advertisement

Remove ads

Return to WA Archives

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users

Advertisement

Remove ads