Why do/don't you believe in a higher power? (Any HP)

[Webus]

I've never seen any evidence for religious claims, and I don't believe the universe needs to have been created to exist.

[Neutraligon]

If you create the universe, you're responsible for all of the natural things that arise in it.

Not really. If create a chair or a habit you are responsible for anything that happens afterwards. Well I’m most places you aren’t.

We have different views on the matter and it’s pointless to debate as we aren’t going to change eachothers view

It is called negligence, and is something that medical companies can be sued for.

[Novo Vaticanus]

God could have prevented cancer from arising. He didn't. Thus, he's evil. No arguing, no questions, not even if it was supposedly for some greater good: torturing children to death is evil, no matter what your excuse is.

God didn't will it directly. It's a result of the Universe that we live in. If God took complete and absolute control over every facet of the Universe, there wouldn't be any kind of imperfection, or cancer.

[Jolthig]

Although I just joined your discussion with the other guy (not looking completely at the debate), this is a strawman. I did not say that God loves to torture kids to death with cancer because of whatever supposed malevolent nature that he has.

Nor did I say that you did.

Suffering is neither good nor bad according to nature. If anyone gets a disease, then it's a natural process.

If you created nature, then the results of all natural processes are entirely and completely your fault.

Okay, I suppose this discussion is going to go in circles, so I'll take it in another direction: What do you define evil as?

A test for humanity to find a cure as I stated in my previous comment. Diseases also distinguish between good and bad people. The good will take action to ensure that the diseased person is taken care of and a cure is found while for the bad people, they are exposed for their nature.

And we're back to the "torturing children for the greater good" argument.

And there are opportunities for cures at the same time with time.

I probably should've said something else or been more specific in the comment as God is outside the physical universe (though at the same time, interacts with it according to Islamic beliefs). So my bad.

"Outside the physical universe" is literally the exact same statement as "doesn't exist".

That's not how monotheism works.

[Salandriagado]

It seems like your whole problem with God is that kids get cancer. This is a very, very common argument against the faithand it really doesn't hold any kind of logical water if you think about it.

God created the universe apart from Himself. That means He gave up some level of His complete control in doing so. Cancer is just a thing that occurs in this Universe, which follows Newton's laws. It isn't like God created the whole fucking universe to just make cancer, haha. He created it so that we could exist within it, and then choose Him.

It's one problem, yes. Your god is supposedly omniscient, therefore can predict all consequences of the universe that he created. Therefore, in particular, he knew that childhood cancer would emerge in it. Therefore, since cancer exists, he clearly chose not to fix the problem. It wouldn't even be hard to fix: just a few tweaks to the structure of DNA. Given that he made that choice, he chose for childhood cancer to exist in the universe. Making that choice is an evil act. Thus, your god, if he exists and is actually omniscient, is evil. The only alternative is that your god either didn't create the universe, or isn't omniscient. So which is it? Is your god evil, is it not the creator of the universe, or is it not omniscient? At least one of those must be true, and yet Catholicism holds that all are false.

You had a lot more to say, but the only issue with the faith I could really distinguish was this, so, I'm glad to try and offer a refutation to any other theological claims you'd like to make against the Church.

I've said it many times before, and I'll say it a million more, there's no argument against the Catholic faith which can't be refuted.

You can say it as many times as you like, it doesn't make it any less false.

[Neutraligon]

God could have prevented cancer from arising. He didn't. Thus, he's evil. No arguing, no questions, not even if it was supposedly for some greater good: torturing children to death is evil, no matter what your excuse is.

God didn't will it directly. It's a result of the Universe that we live in. If God took complete and absolute control over every facet of the Universe, there wouldn't be any kind of imperfection, or cancer.

And the universe we live in is one supposedly created by your god.

[Dogmeat]

If you create the universe, you're responsible for all of the natural things that arise in it.

Not really. If create a chair or a habit you are responsible for anything that happens afterwards. Well I’m most places you aren’t.

We have different views on the matter and it’s pointless to debate as we aren’t going to change eachothers view

I'm not an omniscient or omnipotent creator. I can claim ignorance of the consequences of my actions.

Everything that God supposedly creates, he creates knowing full-well exactly what the consistences will be.

[Novo Vaticanus]

I would say ">inb4" but i'm too late

[Thermodolia]

It seems like your whole problem with God is that kids get cancer. This is a very, very common argument against the faithand it really doesn't hold any kind of logical water if you think about it.

God created the universe apart from Himself. That means He gave up some level of His complete control in doing so. Cancer is just a thing that occurs in this Universe, which follows Newton's laws. It isn't like God created the whole fucking universe to just make cancer, haha. He created it so that we could exist within it, and then choose Him.

You had a lot more to say, but the only issue with the faith I could really distinguish was this, so, I'm glad to try and offer a refutation to any other theological claims you'd like to make against the Church.

I've said it many times before, and I'll say it a million more, there's no argument against the Catholic faith which can't be refuted.

There are several in the Catholic Faith that can be refuted. Starting with it’s a Jewish hearsy

[Neutraligon]

I would say ">1nb4" but i'm too late

(Image)

Got anything to argue against it?

[Thermodolia]

Not really. If create a chair or a habit you are responsible for anything that happens afterwards. Well I’m most places you aren’t.

We have different views on the matter and it’s pointless to debate as we aren’t going to change eachothers view

It is called negligence, and is something that medical companies can be sued for.

Medical yes but a chair isn’t a medical thing. It’s neither here nor there we aren’t goin to change eachothers mind

[Neutraligon]

It is called negligence, and is something that medical companies can be sued for.

Medical yes but a chair isn’t a medical thing. It’s neither here nor there we aren’t goin to change eachothers mind

The point being that people can be held responsible for what happens as a result of something they have created.

[Jolthig]

I would say ">1nb4" but i'm too late

(Image)

There are answers to that as well.

God, being the unchanging being that he is won't change his natural laws just to wipe out the moral bad from the earth with the snap of a fingers as it goes completely against his nature.

[Neutraligon]

I would say ">1nb4" but i'm too late

(Image)

There are answers to that as well.

God, being the unchanging being that he is won't change his natural laws just to wipe out the moral bad from the earth with the snap of a fingers as it goes completely against his nature.

He did not need to change to not make the natural laws as they are. Oh and...God does change, since change is necessary to do anything...and there are stories of him being willing to change his mind.

[Jolthig]

There are answers to that as well.

God, being the unchanging being that he is won't change his natural laws just to wipe out the moral bad from the earth with the snap of a fingers as it goes completely against his nature.

He did not need to change to not make the natural laws as they are. Oh and...God does change, since change is necessary to do anything...and there are stories of him being willing to change his mind.

Well, for one, I dont hold the Biblical view of God. Rather, the view of the Quran which places a lot for emphasis on the Oneness of God than the Bible does which the bible has quite inconsistent views on God indeed.

[Thermodolia]

Not really. If create a chair or a habit you are responsible for anything that happens afterwards. Well I’m most places you aren’t.

We have different views on the matter and it’s pointless to debate as we aren’t going to change eachothers view

I'm not an omniscient or omnipotent creator. I can claim ignorance of the consequences of my actions.

Everything that God supposedly creates, he creates knowing full-well exactly what the consistences will be.

That’s only if you believe god is omniscient or omnipotent being.

Again this is with the presumption that god cares or that god isn’t a dick.


Now I’m only playing devils advocate here. But I do believe that the Jewish god is a bit of a dick

[Thermodolia]

Medical yes but a chair isn’t a medical thing. It’s neither here nor there we aren’t goin to change eachothers mind

The point being that people can be held responsible for what happens as a result of something they have created.

And I didn’t say otherwise.

[Salandriagado]

If you create the universe, you're responsible for all of the natural things that arise in it.

Not really. If create a chair or a habit you are responsible for anything that happens afterwards. Well I’m most places you aren’t.

We have different views on the matter and it’s pointless to debate as we aren’t going to change eachothers view

The only reason that you aren't responsible is that it's not reasonable to expect a human to predict the future to that degree. If you create the chair, and are omniscient, and know that the result of your creating the chair will be bad, then you are entirely responsible for the results.

[Neutraligon]

He did not need to change to not make the natural laws as they are. Oh and...God does change, since change is necessary to do anything...and there are stories of him being willing to change his mind.

Well, for one, I dont hold the Biblical view of God. Rather, the view of the Quran which places a lot for emphasis on the Oneness of God than the Bible does which the bible has quite inconsistent views on God indeed.

So does the Quran.

[Neutraligon]

The point being that people can be held responsible for what happens as a result of something they have created.

And I didn’t say otherwise.

If you create the universe, you're responsible for all of the natural things that arise in it.

Not really. If create a chair or a habit you are responsible for anything that happens afterwards. Well I’m most places you aren’t.

We have different views on the matter and it’s pointless to debate as we aren’t going to change eachothers view

[Thermodolia]

There are answers to that as well.

God, being the unchanging being that he is won't change his natural laws just to wipe out the moral bad from the earth with the snap of a fingers as it goes completely against his nature.

He did not need to change to not make the natural laws as they are. Oh and...God does change, since change is necessary to do anything...and there are stories of him being willing to change his mind.

This presumes one believes that the biblical stories are 100% true. Which I do not. Every little story and miracle has a physical explanation. For example nobody was raised from the dead. They either had a heart attack or fell unconscious.

[Neutraligon]

He did not need to change to not make the natural laws as they are. Oh and...God does change, since change is necessary to do anything...and there are stories of him being willing to change his mind.

This presumes one believes that the biblical stories are 100% true. Which I do not. Every little story and miracle has a physical explanation. For example nobody was raised from the dead. They either had a heart attack or fell unconscious.

No it doesn't, it does not even require the god be the god of the Torah. Oh, so how did you decide the nature of your god?

[Thermodolia]

And I didn’t say otherwise.

Not really. If create a chair or a habit you aren’t responsible for anything that happens afterwards. Well in most places you aren’t.

We have different views on the matter and it’s pointless to debate as we aren’t going to change eachothers view

Apparently you can’t read.

[Salandriagado]

God could have prevented cancer from arising. He didn't. Thus, he's evil. No arguing, no questions, not even if it was supposedly for some greater good: torturing children to death is evil, no matter what your excuse is.

God didn't will it directly. It's a result of the Universe that we live in. If God took complete and absolute control over every facet of the Universe, there wouldn't be any kind of imperfection, or cancer.

Supposedly, your god created the universe. He made the decision to note take complete and absolute control of it (or even the vastly lower amount of control needed to tweak the structure of DNA a bit). He is entirely responsible for the results of that action, which he knew about in advance, because he's supposedly omniscient. Thus, he's responsible, in particular, for childhood cancer. If you drive along a main road firing bullets at random into the sides of buildings, you're responsible for the deaths that happen as a result, no matter how much you argue that you didn't will them to die directly, but just wanted to make some artistic patterns with the bullet holes.

[Neutraligon]

Apparently you can’t read.

SO why are you talking about a chair when the person you where talking to was talking about a universe?