Is that because the same evidence and sets of statistics are presented to you each time?
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by Orostan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:40 pm
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:41 pm
by Northern Davincia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:41 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:42 pm
Wait, are you seriously an ancap?Northern Davincia wrote:Join us, we have bitcoin!
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:42 pm
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:Orostan wrote:Do you mean to say that any analysis of the economy and prediction of where it might end up is impossible? Marx based his predictions for what Communism might be like on economic reality and where things were going at the time, and still are going.
Leftism is growing, but not through revolution.
by Orostan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:43 pm
Autarkheia wrote:Same denialist talking points and fudged statistics, yeah. M'caloric intake. Kulaks deserved it. Ukrainians were fascists anyway.
Boring.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:44 pm
Socialism seems to be becoming more popular, but it's reformist, not revolutionary. I think after the shitshow that was the 20th century everyone is burnt out on revolutions for now.
by Northern Davincia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:45 pm
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Orostan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:46 pm
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:46 pm
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:47 pm
I know they are more interested in endlessly debating over failed dictatorships than a realistic future for socialism, so that's all I need. (Or supporting current ones.)Orostan wrote:The statistics are far from 'fudged'. Even the CIA says that Soviet economic data is accurate. You don't seem to know much about the people you claim to have debated before.
by Western Vale Confederacy » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:47 pm
Orostan wrote:Autarkheia wrote:Socialism seems to be becoming more popular, but it's reformist, not revolutionary. I think after the shitshow that was the 20th century everyone is burnt out on revolutions for now.
>literacy bad
>industrial growth bad
>anti-fascism bad
>democracy bad
big brain takes for sure
by Northern Davincia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:47 pm
Orostan wrote:Autarkheia wrote:Socialism seems to be becoming more popular, but it's reformist, not revolutionary. I think after the shitshow that was the 20th century everyone is burnt out on revolutions for now.
>literacy bad
>industrial growth bad
>anti-fascism bad
>democracy bad
big brain takes for sure
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:49 pm
Western Vale Confederacy wrote:>literacy bad
>industrial growth bad
>anti-fascism bad
>democracy bad
big brain takes for sure
by Orostan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:50 pm
Autarkheia wrote:I know they are more interested in endlessly debating over failed dictatorships than a realistic future for socialism, so that's all I need. (Or supporting current ones.)Orostan wrote:The statistics are far from 'fudged'. Even the CIA says that Soviet economic data is accurate. You don't seem to know much about the people you claim to have debated before.
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
by Orostan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:50 pm
>tfw you have lots of heavy industry but millions starve to death because you can't eat a factory[/quote]
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:51 pm
When Marxism does good things, they could only have been achieved by Marxism. When Marxism does bad things, they either never happened, or the victims were fascist. When other ideologies do bad things, it's proof of the superiority of Marxism. When they do good things, it's just a stopgap which cannot prevent the coming WORLD REVOLUTION
by Lamoni » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:51 pm
Orostan wrote:Northern Davincia wrote:"We have no compassion and we ask no compassion from you. When our turn comes, we shall not make excuses for the terror."
Marxists do not deny the likelihood of atrocities, they just view their tyranny as preferable, and then act surprised when Maoists and Stalinists send them to the gulag.
>hurr durr i cannot read
I am not surprised that you cannot ask "Terror against who?" or "Terror for what?"
The point Marx makes in that quote is that every revolution has revolutionary terror. The question is who that terror is directed at and why.Autarkheia wrote:Fucking kulaks.
"Why does Marxism always result in mass murder and dictatorship? Must be the capitalists. Oh, btw it never happened."
"Marxism always results"
You have no idea what you are talking about. Marxism is a method of historical analysis and analysis of Capitalism. Socialism is the word you want to use, and you are wrong anyways. I suggest you read a little bit of Marx before talking about Marxism or Socialism like you understand it completely.
by Northern Davincia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:53 pm
Orostan wrote:No, I was responding to the ""shitshow" comment.
Conserative Morality wrote:"Two gin-scented tears trickled down the sides of his nose. But it was all right, everything was all right, the struggle was finished. He had won the victory over himself. He loved Big Hoppe."
by Orostan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:54 pm
Autarkheia wrote:When Marxism does good things, they could only have been achieved by Marxism. When Marxism does bad things, they either never happened, or the victims were fascist. When other ideologies do bad things, it's proof of the superiority of Marxism. When they do good things, it's just a stopgap which cannot prevent the coming WORLD REVOLUTIONNorthern Davincia wrote:Reformist socialism is anti-literacy, anti-industry, pro-fascist, and anti-democratic?
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
by Pasong Tirad » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:55 pm
by Orostan » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:55 pm
“It is difficult for me to imagine what “personal liberty” is enjoyed by an unemployed hungry person. True freedom can only be where there is no exploitation and oppression of one person by another; where there is not unemployment, and where a person is not living in fear of losing his job, his home and his bread. Only in such a society personal and any other freedom can exist for real and not on paper.” -J. V. STALIN
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:56 pm
Maybe it couldn't have achieved industrialization at the same fast rate (one thing a command economy is genuinely good at) but clearly it's not the only way to industrialize, or necessarily the best just because it was fast.Northern Davincia wrote:Reformist socialism can achieve anything the USSR did without obscene casualty rates and totalitarianism, however.
by Democratic Communist Federation » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:57 pm
Autarkheia wrote:Communists aren't prophets yet they literally believe they can predictthe Rapturewhat the current socioeconomic system will be replaced by. Riight.
by Autarkheia » Thu Jan 10, 2019 7:58 pm
1) yeah I do, we're just shitposting 2) I'm not right-wing, though if you believe Stalin was a democrat then up is down I guess and anything goesI get tired of these debates fast because right wingers seem to believe themselves to know everything. You really don't understand what Marxism is or what Socialism is.
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