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Is Omnicide inevitable?

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A m e n r i a
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Postby A m e n r i a » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:14 am

Omnicide is inevitable. Someday, everything but God will die at once. It won't be caused by humans though. It's called the Apocalypse. The Quran mentions it quite a lot.
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Sapientia Et Bellum
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Postby Sapientia Et Bellum » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:19 am

I have the full believe that by time we develop such weapons/complex enough AI that we will be an interplanetary species which creates a situation where a single extinction event will be unable to destroy the entirety of our species.... Basically, I dont think Omnicide is inevitable but rather the immortality of our species is inevitable
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Sapientia Et Bellum
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Postby Sapientia Et Bellum » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:20 am

A m e n r i a wrote:Omnicide is inevitable. Someday, everything but God will die at once. It won't be caused by humans though. It's called the Apocalypse. The Quran mentions it quite a lot.

Lets look at this from a completely secular viewpoint as the question is asked in a secular viewpoint
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Postby Sapientia Et Bellum » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:23 am

With weapons comes new techniques of production, new medicine, new ways to extend the life of human beings, and most importantly space travel... I agree its inevitable that earth is destroyed from omnicide but by then the human race will be scattered across the solar system and galaxy on a larger scale
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:24 am

Sapientia Et Bellum wrote:I have the full believe that by time we develop such weapons/complex enough AI that we will be an interplanetary species which creates a situation where a single extinction event will be unable to destroy the entirety of our species.... Basically, I dont think Omnicide is inevitable but rather the immortality of our species is inevitable

Well, your second point is wrong, as our species won't last beyond the end of the universe if we get that far. Because of the expansion of said universe, an intergalactic species is impossible, and the Milky Way seems to be on track to a collision with two different galaxies, neither of which help our odds of survival.
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Sapientia Et Bellum
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Postby Sapientia Et Bellum » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:30 am

Kowani wrote:
Sapientia Et Bellum wrote:I have the full believe that by time we develop such weapons/complex enough AI that we will be an interplanetary species which creates a situation where a single extinction event will be unable to destroy the entirety of our species.... Basically, I dont think Omnicide is inevitable but rather the immortality of our species is inevitable

Well, your second point is wrong, as our species won't last beyond the end of the universe if we get that far. Because of the expansion of said universe, an intergalactic species is impossible, and the Milky Way seems to be on track to a collision with two different galaxies, neither of which help our odds of survival.

And by time we reach collision point, an intergalactic species may be possible... we cant downplay our ability to innovate with time especially considering if singularity theories come true in which technological advancement will happen at a rate of infinity... We will be able to prevent our own destruction, thats the honest truth
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Kowani
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Postby Kowani » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:36 am

Sapientia Et Bellum wrote:
Kowani wrote:Well, your second point is wrong, as our species won't last beyond the end of the universe if we get that far. Because of the expansion of said universe, an intergalactic species is impossible, and the Milky Way seems to be on track to a collision with two different galaxies, neither of which help our odds of survival.

And by time we reach collision point, an intergalactic species may be possible... we cant downplay our ability to innovate with time especially considering if singularity theories come true in which technological advancement will happen at a rate of infinity... We will be able to prevent our own destruction, thats the honest truth

Okay, that's a lot of ifs involved. But, the problem is this. One cannot accelerate beyond the speed of light (quantum entanglement aside) and yet the gulf between galaxies is, beyond being huge already, growing. The gulf between galactic clusters even more so. By the time we reach a singularity (if we ever do), it will be far too late. Not only will we still be trapped in the intergalactic gulf, our descendants won't be aware of the existence of other galaxies because light will no longer arrive from them. Intergalactic travel would make Columbus' voyage look like a trip to the supermarket-with generation ships and no maps.
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Atheist and still proud of it. Technophile to the extreme.
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Oh, and a Pragmatist. Somehow.
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Sapientia Et Bellum
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Postby Sapientia Et Bellum » Thu Jan 10, 2019 12:49 am

Kowani wrote:
Sapientia Et Bellum wrote:And by time we reach collision point, an intergalactic species may be possible... we cant downplay our ability to innovate with time especially considering if singularity theories come true in which technological advancement will happen at a rate of infinity... We will be able to prevent our own destruction, thats the honest truth

Okay, that's a lot of ifs involved. But, the problem is this. One cannot accelerate beyond the speed of light (quantum entanglement aside) and yet the gulf between galaxies is, beyond being huge already, growing. The gulf between galactic clusters even more so. By the time we reach a singularity (if we ever do), it will be far too late. Not only will we still be trapped in the intergalactic gulf, our descendants won't be aware of the existence of other galaxies because light will no longer arrive from them. Intergalactic travel would make Columbus' voyage look like a trip to the supermarket-with generation ships and no maps.

This entire debate is a debate of ifs... regardless I believe new technologies, technologies that we cant currently understand and possibly able to bend the laws of nature themselves will be developed... but thats all it is... belief... In relation to the question of Omnicide, im essentially saying that humans will become immortal at least on a galactic level thats to the fact that we are bound to become an interplanatary and intersystem species... but even that is an if... its an if to say that we will kill each other off to extinction... thus we return to my original point
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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:31 am

Historically, humanity has been growing along with it's killing capabilities. A few thousand years ago, humans were in the millions and our ability to kill was still limited. Now we almost number 8 billion and we have the technology to wipe out all life on Earth. Cheap and efficient weapons may be developed, but this will never halt the population growth by itself.

DoomsdayPredictia wrote:At first complete extermination will only be commited by tribes and nations actually in wars against other tribes and nations. Later it will be used against unfriendly tribes and nations not currently in a war. Eventually it will be used in an omnicidal manner, namely kill first or be killed. Humanity will be reduced first to a single race, then a single ethnic group. Eventually even those within an ethnic group will kill each other for random reasons and eventually just kill first or be killed. The future may belong to only one sentient entity, human, AI or alien that has exterminated everyone else.


Being evil or having cheap and deadly weapons doesn't mean that you must use them. North Korea, for example, has the deadliest arsenal of chemical weapons on the planet. Russia has the largest number of nuclear weapons, which have also gotten more efficient the last few decades. They hold on to these weapons as their very last resort against a hypothetical war against them. Nobody wants conflict to escalate beyond their control, especially dictators.

Uncontrolled tribes by themselves are too few and too small to have any kind of impact. ISIS, the largest terrorist organization to ever exist, had ~200.000 volunteers at it's peak and a lot of money and firepower in their hands. They couldn't even hold on to the few territories they had captured.
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:10 am

Probably not. We currently do not have the technology to sterilize the planet and that's pretty much the only way to wipe out ALL of humanity. Only around 55% of our population lives in cities so even if every urban area was targeted (which is stupid, because why wipe out cities like Lagos or Singapore?) that still leaves around 45% of the Earth's population immediately alive. In which, the few crazies in bunkers and those in areas isolated from the bombs will have a couple of years to survive until the (theoretical) nuclear winter and much of the less potent fallout dissipates, which some people probably will. Also, on a side note, deathclaws and irradiated creatures will probably not exist so that's not an issue

I'm not an expert on the situation, but I doubt that humanity will be wiped out from our own technology given our current state.
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Postby El-Amin Caliphate » Thu Jan 10, 2019 8:50 am

A m e n r i a wrote:Omnicide is inevitable. Someday, everything but God will die at once. It won't be caused by humans though. It's called the Apocalypse. The Quran mentions it quite a lot.

You're right about that. But I don't think the Holy Qur'an mentions it, I think it's more in the Sunnah.
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Postby Free Arabian Nation » Thu Jan 10, 2019 9:59 am

DoomsdayPredictia wrote:
Free Arabian Nation wrote:Probably not. We currently do not have the technology to sterilize the planet and that's pretty much the only way to wipe out ALL of humanity. Only around 55% of our population lives in cities so even if every urban area was targeted (which is stupid, because why wipe out cities like Lagos or Singapore?) that still leaves around 45% of the Earth's population immediately alive. In which, the few crazies in bunkers and those in areas isolated from the bombs will have a couple of years to survive until the (theoretical) nuclear winter and much of the less potent fallout dissipates, which some people probably will. Also, on a side note, deathclaws and irradiated creatures will probably not exist so that's not an issue

I'm not an expert on the situation, but I doubt that humanity will be wiped out from our own technology given our current state.


We currently don't have such technologies. However I suspect that we will within decades.

Why would someone nuke Singapore? If someone wants to completely exterminate all ethnic Chinese maybe they will. Well it is likely that they still want the Malacca Strait to be navigable so they will use drones or ethnic biological weapons instead.

Uh, Singapore isn't Chinese. It's mostly of a Malay ancestry iirc.

Also, nukes are inefficient when it comes to cultural extermination due to previously stated, Traditional means are much better
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-Ocelot-
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Postby -Ocelot- » Thu Jan 10, 2019 1:56 pm

DoomsdayPredictia wrote:What if it is possible to target say an entire Y chromosome haplogroup and create a biological weapon to kill everyone with that haplogroup?


DoomsdayPredictia wrote:Such scenarios are analogous to murder in a society. What if a new weapon to murder people without being traced gets invented? Of course it is likely to make a society a lot bloodier.



Depends on many things. First of all, it's not possible. Then you have to estimate the costs and processes needed to actually carry on with the attack. Even if the technology exists, will a random group of people be able to use it effectively? Or will it be a weapon only developed by governments? Think of nuclear weapons and how much money, work and maintenance goes into them. The technology is known but only governments have nuclear weapons.

DoomsdayPredictia wrote:We don't have a nuclear winter because identification of culprits and second strike are possible in a nuclear war. On the other hand in my hypothetical future ethnic war of extermination it is likely that it is possible to wipe out an entire ethnic group or even a race without the rest of humanity being able to find out the culprits.


It's all hypothetical. Worry about actual ethnic conflicts happening right now instead.

DoomsdayPredictia wrote:Let's say one day suddenly all Russians died over night. Who the fuck caused it?


That's an easy one. The Russian government.
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