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The General and the Kid

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Regarding the General's decision to execute the kid

Morally Acceptable
33
42%
Morally Unacceptable
46
58%
 
Total votes : 79

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:53 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Well then, that’s not balanced then is it?

Appeals to Antiquity are fallacious. Just cause something happened generations ago, doesn’t necessarily mean it has any bearing on today. For example, drug use (something I know you aren’t keen on) goes as far back as antiquity.


I'm just saying, there have been situations in the past where we've (as a society) found it to be acceptable

I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:54 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I'm just saying, there have been situations in the past where we've (as a society) found it to be acceptable

I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.


it plays a part in informing my moral judgement in this case

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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:54 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Which, as I noted, is an appeal to antiquity.

Out of curiosity, would you advocate the same punishment if the person almost killed was a Private, not a General?


I would be okay with it

What if the person almost killed was an enlisted man, not an officer?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:55 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I'm just saying, there have been situations in the past where we've (as a society) found it to be acceptable

I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.

He is appealing to historical examples as an authority, but dismisses examples from WWII for some strange and convenient reason. :roll:

Infected Mushroom wrote:I see no reason to be concerned about what the Germans did or didn't do in World War II; as it stands, I don't really care
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
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Ifreann
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Founded: Aug 07, 2005
Left-Leaning College State

Postby Ifreann » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:55 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.


it plays a part in informing my moral judgement in this case

Why?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Regular Thorough Handwashing For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Mask Wearing That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Social Distancing
He/Him

You've got a lonesome road to walk, and it ain't along the railroad track, and it ain't along the black-top tar you walked a hundred times before.
I'll tell you where the real road lies: between your ears, behind your eyes. That is the path to paradise, likewise the road to ruin.

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:56 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I would be okay with it

Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:56 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
it plays a part in informing my moral judgement in this case

Why?

Because the only sense of morality that matters is the made up story book version of medieval and ancient societies.
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Bells on her coat and a raggle taggle kind of grin, she'll teach you how to love if you believe in her


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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:57 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so

Why not?
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so

What about my earlier question: had the general's side lost the war, should the general have been summarily executed for the many soldiers (including those generals) that he killed on the other side during battle?
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
hmmm... I don't think so

Why not?


there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

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Heloin
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Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:00 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so

Kid shots general. Dishonerable, must be killed at once for no fucking reason. General sends millions of men to there graves will siting back in a room drinking fine wine. Great guy.
I hope you meet the rabbit with the feather in her hat, the penny whistle girl with the orange colored cap.
Bells on her coat and a raggle taggle kind of grin, she'll teach you how to love if you believe in her


Free All Of Africa From Hate
Proudly Zimbabwean | Art Thread | Stand With Hong Kong | One Big Union | Zurk 2020 | Nobel Prize Winner

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Why not?


there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28866
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:02 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Why not?


there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

The Geneva Conventions? There really is no way that you could have missed that in the course of this thread.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
The Free Joy State
Senior Issues Editor
 
Posts: 12396
Founded: Jan 05, 2014
Iron Fist Consumerists

Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:02 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
hmmm... I don't think so

Kid shots general. Dishonerable, must be killed at once for no fucking reason. General sends millions of men to there graves will siting back in a room drinking fine wine. Great guy.

Kid shoots and misses, at that.

Looks like everything's coming up roses for this general.

The New California Republic wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

The Geneva Conventions? There really is no way that you could have missed that in the course of this thread.

I think some see the Geneva Convention more as "The Geneva Set of Very Loose Guidelines That You Can Follow If You Really, Really Want To (But Who Really Gives A Toss... We Don't)"
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
"If there's a book that you want to read, but it hasn't been written yet, then you must write it." - Toni Morrison

My nation does not represent my beliefs or politics.

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Deltanium
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Postby Deltanium » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:03 am

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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:05 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?

*Waits for IM to mention rules of war, which he had to dismiss earlier, but now needs to actually use to justify his position*
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Infected Mushroom
Post Czar
 
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:09 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 28866
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:09 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job

Called it.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

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Alvecia
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Posts: 19549
Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:10 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job

So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

User avatar
Heloin
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Posts: 14758
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job

The kid had become a combatant. So it was his job to attack and cripple the enemy forces. I can't think of many better ways one person could really seriously cripple the enemy forces other then trying to take out it's command structure.
I hope you meet the rabbit with the feather in her hat, the penny whistle girl with the orange colored cap.
Bells on her coat and a raggle taggle kind of grin, she'll teach you how to love if you believe in her


Free All Of Africa From Hate
Proudly Zimbabwean | Art Thread | Stand With Hong Kong | One Big Union | Zurk 2020 | Nobel Prize Winner

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
because its his job

So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?


Honestly, I'd still be okay with the execution

the key is that they personally took up arms and personally tried to kill the general from a hidden position

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
because its his job

The kid had become a combatant. So it was his job to attack and cripple the enemy forces. I can't think of many better ways one person could really seriously cripple the enemy forces other then trying to take out it's command structure.


you mean, the kid chose to be an insurgent?

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?


Honestly, I'd still be okay with the execution

the key is that they personally took up arms and personally tried to kill the general from a hidden position

But they’re just doing their job.
If the kid/ soldier is morally culpable for doing their job, why isn’t the general morally culpable for doing their job?
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

User avatar
The New California Republic
Postmaster of the Fleet
 
Posts: 28866
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:12 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?


Honestly, I'd still be okay with the execution

the key is that they personally took up arms and personally tried to kill the general from a hidden position

That does nothing to explain your position, absolutely nothing.
Last edited by Sigmund Freud on Sat Sep 23, 1939 2:23 am, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the total victory over Caesar's Legion, and the annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.

White-collared conservatives flashing down the street
Pointing their plastic finger at me
They're hoping soon, my kind will drop and die
But I'm going to wave my freak flag high
Wave on, wave on
||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Heloin
Postmaster-General
 
Posts: 14758
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:14 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:The kid had become a combatant. So it was his job to attack and cripple the enemy forces. I can't think of many better ways one person could really seriously cripple the enemy forces other then trying to take out it's command structure.


you mean, the kid chose to be an insurgent?

No he accidentally became one.

What else does actively taking a weapon to kill an enemy general make you? A Teletubbie?
I hope you meet the rabbit with the feather in her hat, the penny whistle girl with the orange colored cap.
Bells on her coat and a raggle taggle kind of grin, she'll teach you how to love if you believe in her


Free All Of Africa From Hate
Proudly Zimbabwean | Art Thread | Stand With Hong Kong | One Big Union | Zurk 2020 | Nobel Prize Winner

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