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The General and the Kid

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Regarding the General's decision to execute the kid

Morally Acceptable
33
42%
Morally Unacceptable
46
58%
 
Total votes : 79

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:53 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Well then, that’s not balanced then is it?

Appeals to Antiquity are fallacious. Just cause something happened generations ago, doesn’t necessarily mean it has any bearing on today. For example, drug use (something I know you aren’t keen on) goes as far back as antiquity.


I'm just saying, there have been situations in the past where we've (as a society) found it to be acceptable

I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:54 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I'm just saying, there have been situations in the past where we've (as a society) found it to be acceptable

I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.


it plays a part in informing my moral judgement in this case
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Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:54 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Which, as I noted, is an appeal to antiquity.

Out of curiosity, would you advocate the same punishment if the person almost killed was a Private, not a General?


I would be okay with it

What if the person almost killed was an enlisted man, not an officer?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
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Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:55 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I'm just saying, there have been situations in the past where we've (as a society) found it to be acceptable

I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.

He is appealing to historical examples as an authority, but dismisses examples from WWII for some strange and convenient reason. :roll:

Infected Mushroom wrote:I see no reason to be concerned about what the Germans did or didn't do in World War II; as it stands, I don't really care
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
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Ifreann
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Postby Ifreann » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:55 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Ifreann wrote:I thought you were only concerned about the morality of this action. What may or may not have been acceptable in some historical society is not relevant.


it plays a part in informing my moral judgement in this case

Why?
Mistake Not My Current State Of Joshing Gentle Banter For The Awesome And Terrible Majesty Of The Towering Seas Of Snark That Are Themselves The Mere Milquetoast Shallows Fringing My Vast Oceans Of Sarcasm
He/Him

Dangerous this Jack o' Hearts.
With his kiss
the riot
starts

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:56 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
I would be okay with it

Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so
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Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:56 am

Ifreann wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
it plays a part in informing my moral judgement in this case

Why?

Because the only sense of morality that matters is the made up story book version of medieval and ancient societies.
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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:57 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so

Why not?
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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so

What about my earlier question: had the general's side lost the war, should the general have been summarily executed for the many soldiers (including those generals) that he killed on the other side during battle?
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Infected Mushroom
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Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 7:59 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
hmmm... I don't think so

Why not?


there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way
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Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Heloin
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Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:00 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:Under this logic the general should be executed immediately for sending soldiers to die in the battlefield. Think of all the lives he wasted by not going out alone with only a sword to face the other general, because honour.


hmmm... I don't think so

Kid shots general. Dishonerable, must be killed at once for no fucking reason. General sends millions of men to there graves will siting back in a room drinking fine wine. Great guy.
Don't waste any time mourning. Organise! - Joe Hill

Rabbit and Rhodie Girl in her 20's. Proudly Zimbabwean, living in sunny and humid Florida. Industrial Workers of the World
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! Singing Queen of NSG. I draw things. Take a look!

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Alvecia
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Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:01 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Why not?


there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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The New California Republic
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Posts: 19175
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:02 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:Why not?


there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

The Geneva Conventions? There really is no way that you could have missed that in the course of this thread.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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The Free Joy State
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Postby The Free Joy State » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:02 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
hmmm... I don't think so

Kid shots general. Dishonerable, must be killed at once for no fucking reason. General sends millions of men to there graves will siting back in a room drinking fine wine. Great guy.

Kid shoots and misses, at that.

Looks like everything's coming up roses for this general.

The New California Republic wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

The Geneva Conventions? There really is no way that you could have missed that in the course of this thread.

I think some see the Geneva Convention more as "The Geneva Set of Very Loose Guidelines That You Can Follow If You Really, Really Want To (But Who Really Gives A Toss... We Don't)"
Last edited by The Free Joy State on Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:05 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Deltanium
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Postby Deltanium » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:03 am

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The New California Republic
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Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:05 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?

*Waits for IM to mention rules of war, which he had to dismiss earlier, but now needs to actually use to justify his position*
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Infected Mushroom
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Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:09 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
there is no obligation to go about waging a war in any single way

That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job
Reincarnation and Successor of God Kefka +~4500 posts


Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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The New California Republic
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Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:09 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job

Called it.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:10 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job

So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

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Heloin
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Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:That doesn’t really answer the question. If the kid is culpable for attempting to kill the general, why isn’t the general culpable for attempting to kill the entire opposing army?


because its his job

The kid had become a combatant. So it was his job to attack and cripple the enemy forces. I can't think of many better ways one person could really seriously cripple the enemy forces other then trying to take out it's command structure.
Don't waste any time mourning. Organise! - Joe Hill

Rabbit and Rhodie Girl in her 20's. Proudly Zimbabwean, living in sunny and humid Florida. Industrial Workers of the World
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! Singing Queen of NSG. I draw things. Take a look!

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Alvecia wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
because its his job

So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?


Honestly, I'd still be okay with the execution

the key is that they personally took up arms and personally tried to kill the general from a hidden position
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Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Infected Mushroom
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Founded: Apr 15, 2014
Corrupt Dictatorship

Postby Infected Mushroom » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Heloin wrote:
Infected Mushroom wrote:
because its his job

The kid had become a combatant. So it was his job to attack and cripple the enemy forces. I can't think of many better ways one person could really seriously cripple the enemy forces other then trying to take out it's command structure.


you mean, the kid chose to be an insurgent?
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Art Thread (http://forum.nationstates.net/viewtopic ... #p19679163)

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Alvecia
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Founded: Aug 17, 2015
Democratic Socialists

Postby Alvecia » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:11 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?


Honestly, I'd still be okay with the execution

the key is that they personally took up arms and personally tried to kill the general from a hidden position

But they’re just doing their job.
If the kid/ soldier is morally culpable for doing their job, why isn’t the general morally culpable for doing their job?
British
Atheist
IT Support
That there is no exception to the rule "There is an exception to every rule" is the exception that proves the rule.
---
Give a man a fish, and he'll eat for a day. Teach a man to fish, and he'll stop asking you to catch his fish.
That's not happening
That shouldn't be happening
Why is that happening?
That's why it's happening?
How has this ever worked?

User avatar
The New California Republic
Post Marshal
 
Posts: 19175
Founded: Jun 06, 2011
Civil Rights Lovefest

Postby The New California Republic » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:12 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Alvecia wrote:So if the kid had instead been an enemy soldier, the general would be morally in the wrong if he was to execute them?


Honestly, I'd still be okay with the execution

the key is that they personally took up arms and personally tried to kill the general from a hidden position

That does nothing to explain your position, absolutely nothing.
Last edited by Friedrich Nietzsche on Thu Jan 03, 1889 13:05 pm, edited 999 times in total.

The Irradiated Wasteland of The New California Republic: depicting the expanded NCR, several years after the complete victory over Caesar's Legion, and the pacification and annexation of New Vegas and its surrounding areas.
Current President of The NCR: Aaron Kimball.
Current NCR Ambassador to The World Assembly: Colonel James Hsu, NCR Army (Ret.)
.

||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

User avatar
Heloin
Powerbroker
 
Posts: 8059
Founded: Mar 30, 2012
Democratic Socialists

Postby Heloin » Mon Jan 07, 2019 8:14 am

Infected Mushroom wrote:
Heloin wrote:The kid had become a combatant. So it was his job to attack and cripple the enemy forces. I can't think of many better ways one person could really seriously cripple the enemy forces other then trying to take out it's command structure.


you mean, the kid chose to be an insurgent?

No he accidentally became one.

What else does actively taking a weapon to kill an enemy general make you? A Teletubbie?
Don't waste any time mourning. Organise! - Joe Hill

Rabbit and Rhodie Girl in her 20's. Proudly Zimbabwean, living in sunny and humid Florida. Industrial Workers of the World
I love Rugby. Go Springboks, Go Sables! Singing Queen of NSG. I draw things. Take a look!

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